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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 67

post #991 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

 

Yes I would think so at first glance too... But if you look at the thread posted in my previous post, the HE-5LE, when driven from a speaker amp, compared to the HE-500 driven from either a balanced headphone amp, or the same speaker amp, simply doesnt sound so good...

 

Of course if you use headphone amps only, the HE-500 is definitely better.

 

But when you use speaker amps, the HE-5LE simly seems to be the better value...

 

You can always ruin the sound of any pair of headphones when not powering them appropriately... But still I would rather go with HE-500 as they should perform closer to neutral and in more balanced way + easier to drive. But HE-5LE are a good pair of headphones as well, for sure. HE-6 are with not doubt great but still have too much treble and are extremely difficult to drive... Still, I find LCD-2 rev2 better in several ways for my purpose.


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 3:28pm
post #992 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

You can always ruin the sound of any pair of headphones when not powering them appropriately... But still I would rather go with HE-500 as they should perform closer to neutral and in more balanced way + easier to drive. But HE-5LE are a good pair of headphones as well, for sure. HE-6 are with not doubt great but still have too much treble and are extremely difficult to drive... Still, I find LCD-2 rev2 better in several ways for my purpose.

 

I would say the HE-500 are more mid-centric.

I cant really judge as I dont own either of them, but I will soon :) Atleast the HE-5LE.

 

My opinions are solely based on the general opinion around here.

I will go with the HE-5LE simply because they will benefit mroe from a speaker amp setup, also the fact that (according to those who own both of them) they can best the HE-500 (again talking speaker amps here...)

 

But overall they are both great, more similar than different and you cant go wrong with either of these :D

 

The LCD-2s are surely great too, albeit some might find the recessed treble unsatisfactory

post #993 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

 

I would say the HE-500 are more mid-centric.

I cant really judge as I dont own either of them, but I will soon :) Atleast the HE-5LE.

 

My opinions are solely based on the general opinion around here.

I will go with the HE-5LE simply because they will benefit mroe from a speaker amp setup, also the fact that (according to those who own both of them) they can best the HE-500 (again talking speaker amps here...)

 

But overall they are both great, more similar than different and you cant go wrong with either of these :D

 

The LCD-2s are surely great too, albeit some might find the recessed treble unsatisfactory

 

It's completely up to you, my opinion is based only on measurements... That is for sure way more objective on the one side, but I haven't heard them and so I remain personally unexperienced, on the other side.

 

I am not sure what do people mean about HE-5LE being "better" but if you want more neutral phones that are going to perform well with any sort of music, I would advise to go for HE-500. HE-500 are ABSOLUTELY NOT midcentric... They are pretty flat in bass and mids along with slightly more treble than desired to be neutral.

 

Objectively said, HE-500 should perform better as you can see in the measurements included in one of my previous posts. But I am not able to say which pair of headphones you are going to like more as this is purely subjective to your ears and preferences...


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 3:51pm
post #994 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post
 

 

Luke,

 

Don't let anyone persuade or talk you into letting graphs and charts make a decision for you.  Let you ears tell you what you like.  If anyone picks a headphone over another (being as close as they are in sound) because a graph points a tad bit in a certain direction. 

 

It's to many variables with those graphs.  What amps was used. What DAC was used?  The headphones might have bad synergy with the equipment it was tested on.  

 

If you like what you hear that's the way you should go.  People trying to push graphs and charts on others is wrong.  Get what you like by what you hear - that's my honest opinion.

post #995 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

 

 

 

Luke,

 

With the music you listen to you really don't need a flat neutral headphone.  You need a bit of warmth.  You get a flat headphone with the music you listen to - watch out for your ears.  Without that tad bit of warmth your music will be unenjoyable.  

 

But at the end of the day it's all what you like and no graph can tell you that - your ears will do just fine.

post #996 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

Luke,

 

Don't let anyone persuade or talk you into letting graphs and charts make a decision for you.  Let you ears tell you what you like.  If anyone picks a headphone over another (being as close as they are in sound) because a graph points a tad bit in a certain direction. 

 

It's to many variables with those graphs.  What amps was used. What DAC was used?  The headphones might have bad synergy with the equipment it was tested on.  

 

If you like what you hear that's the way you should go.  People trying to push graphs and charts on others is wrong.  Get what you like by what you hear - that's my honest opinion.

 

If I understood correctly, he is not going to judge by his ears but according to opinions of other headfiers... Do you think it's more objective to judge according to someone's subjective view than with the help of objective measurements? The best way is for sure to bring his prefered amp to a shop and try those phones himself...

 

Bad synergy? You mean not enough volts, not enough current, not amplifying neutrally across the frequency spectrum, too high output impedance? All those things are easily solvable by purchasing the amp that could be considered as "transparently marketed product" = have all the needed measurements available to estimate whether it is good enough or not. You are completely free to calculate all the variables you need in order to get the best from your headphones. There is no "bad synergy" involved with DACs... The DAC is simply better or worse than the other one.

 

Do you think I am pushing graphs and charts on others? Can you support your opinion anyhow? Your two responses were purely subjective and uninformative, mine only interpreted measurements and offered my point of view IN TERMS OF ACHIEVING NEUTRALITY, BALANCE AND TRANSPARENCY.

 

I haven't told him HE500 is going to sound better to him... I have told him that it is purely subjective to his preferences. He wanted to adHE-5LE to our discussion about the most neutral phones up to 1000USD. I simply told him they are not better than HE500 in this manner and used objective arguments in order to support my opinion.


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 4:28pm
post #997 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

But I am not able to say which pair of headphones you are going to like more as this is purely subjective to your ears and preferences...

 

 

 

400

 

 

Great post - The last part anyway..

 

 

400

post #998 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

 

400

 

 

Great post - The last part anyway..

 

 

400

 

Is this meant to be ironic? Of course I cannot judge which pair he is going to like more... I just explained him that HE500 is the more neutral pair from those two and performs better overally according to the measurements. But it does not mean HE500 are better for his ears of course.


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 4:31pm
post #999 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

If I understood correctly, he is not going to judge by his ears but according to opinions of other headfiers... Do you think it's more objective to judge according to someone's subjective view than with the help of objective measurements? The best way is for sure to bring his prefered amp to a shop and try those phones himself...

 

Bad synergy? You mean not enough volts, not enough current, not amplifying neutrally across the frequency spectrum, too high output impedance? All those things are easily solvable by purchasing the amp that could be considered as "transparently marketed product" = have all the needed measurements available to estimate whether it is good enough or not. You are completely free to calculate all the variables you need in order to get the best from your headphones. There is no "bad synergy" involved with DACs... The DAC is simply better or worse than the other one.

 

Do you think I am pushing graphs and charts on others? Can you support your opinion anyhow? Your two responses were purely subjective and uninformative, mine only interpreted measurements and offered my point of view IN TERMS OF ACHIEVING NEUTRALITY, BALANCE AND TRANSPARENCY.

 

I haven't told him HE500 is going to sound better to him... I have told him that it is purely subjective to his preferences. He wanted to adHE-5LE to our discussion about the most neutral phones up to 1000USD. I simply told him they are not better than HE500 in this manner and used objective arguments in order to support my opinion.

 

 

Luke and I have had numerous test and decisions about his music of choice and the sound sig he's looking for.  Did you even ask him that?  You went straight to the graphs.  With the music he has, he's not looking for NEUTRALITY AND TRANSPARENCY.  You would know that if you asked him before recommending something.  

 

Heck, the starter of this thread to my knowledge didn't include not one graph, chart, or measurement - that I'm aware of.  

post #1000 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

Is this meant to be ironic? Of course I cannot judge which pair he is going to like more... I just explained him that HE500 is the more neutral pair from those two and performs better overally according to the measurements. But it does not mean HE500 are better for his ears of course.

 

 

Every type of music does not benefit from a neutral transparent FR.  Do you even know what type of music he like?  

 

We went through about a week of testing with his preferred music.  He saying he needs something that works well with his music.  Not because the graph say there neutral and transparent. 

post #1001 of 5020
Thread Starter 

Wow, looks like I missed a lot!!! :) But no, I didn't include graphs in my evaluation.

post #1002 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

Luke and I have had numerous test and decisions about his music of choice and the sound sig he's looking for.  Did you even ask him that?  You went straight to the graphs.  With the music he has, he's not looking for NEUTRALITY AND TRANSPARENCY.  You would know that if you asked him before recommending something.  

 

Heck, the starter of this thread to my knowledge didn't include not one graph, chart, or measurement - that I'm aware of.  

 

You should read through the last two or three pages... He himself tried to add his desired phones to the discussion that was about neutral headphones up to 1000USD. I have had nothing against and gladly checked measurements in order to find out how good those Hifimans are in terms of neutrality... That's all. I haven't said him to buy HE500, you can find the proof yourself...

 

The starter of this thread did of course a great job for the majority of headfiers as they rather judge by their ears than by measurements. The rest can still use the graphs and measurements = all headfiers are happy. I do not see any trouble in here... I do not force anyone to do anything. But if anyone is interested in my opinion, I have no problem to help...


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 4:46pm
post #1003 of 5020

Cool man..

 

MHOE - you're alright with me....

 

 

 

 

 

700

post #1004 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

Every type of music does not benefit from a neutral transparent FR.  Do you even know what type of music he like?  

 

We went through about a week of testing with his preferred music.  He saying he needs something that works well with his music.  Not because the graph say there neutral and transparent. 

 

I think you still don't understand... We were not discussing about which pair he should buy. He stated quite clearly that he wants those HE-5LE.

 

EDIT: I hope you understand now :-) I am not saying neutrality is the best think evah for everyone, right? smily_headphones1.gif


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 4:42pm
post #1005 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by inanevoyage View Post

Thanks for the info. If they are similar enough, I'm going to stick to my previously scheduled HE-500 purchase. 

DON'T cancel your HE500 purchase imho. :]

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