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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 66

post #976 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

There are conflicting opinions regarding comfort with these two. I find the HE500's more comfortable for long listening sessions with the velour pads. The leather pads on the Audeze can make your ears sweat and if you listen lying down with cushion or pillow, the clamp pressure can be uncomfortable. Both are quite heavy but it didn't take me long to adjust to them.

 

What I find problematic is the fact that sound signature is going to change with both pads on HE500... Audezes leather and leather-free pads should both sound the same and therefore the FR graph still applies.

post #977 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

It has to be mentioned that LCD-2 is going to work great even with cheaper amps... Don't believe people that they are extremely difficult to drive properly etc. You just need a neutral sounding amp (not bass emphasis) and rather more current (majority of portable amps are not going to work great I suspect).

Yeah I'd say they need at the very least 1 watt fed into them. They will sound good with less power but they will tighten up and be more controlled. Also it depends on pre amps and power from dac's/source etc. Some portable cmoy's can make them sound ok, but not ideal for plannars.

 

Neutral is definately the way to go with both headphones, but anything brighter than that I wouldn't pair with the hifimans.

post #978 of 4945
Quote:

Neutral is definately the way to go with both headphones, but anything brighter than that I wouldn't pair with the hifimans.

 

The problem is that many many people feel the neutrality is nearer with HE500 than with LCD-2 rev2 and/or pair their phones with non-neutral amps and then judge their signatures. They even feel HE500 is "darker than ideal". It's simply not true if you are talking about real neutrality (flat FR graph is not equal neutrality in the world of headphones).

 

LCD-2 rev2 are for sure a bit more neutral than HE-500... Ideal bass, ideal mids and slightly recessed treble in specific regions (not completely). HE-500 are not completely flat to the lowest regions, mids are going to be about the same and the treble is peaky from 7 - 11 khz ( = around 10 khz). But this can work better for many people - that's absolutely ok. But remember that treble is very easy to EQ, bass absolutely not.


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 1:33pm
post #979 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

What I find problematic is the fact that sound signature is going to change with both pads on HE500... Audezes leather and leather-free pads should both sound the same and therefore the FR graph still applies.

I think there is more of a difference with the velour/pleather on the hifimans because there is less of a seal with the velours. Therefore the sound is a little more "free" and the bass doesn't swamp the other FR as much. The Audezes pads are much larger and have a larger surface area that seals, so this minimizes the effects of using different materials. Might be more of a difference if they used velour possibly..?

post #980 of 4945

Thanks for the info. If they are similar enough, I'm going to stick to my previously scheduled HE-500 purchase. 

post #981 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by inanevoyage View Post

Thanks for the info. If they are similar enough, I'm going to stick to my previously scheduled HE-500 purchase. 

 

I would to help you to decide well... Can you tell us about your music/sound preferences, or anything that you find important? 

post #982 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

The problem is that many many people feel the neutrality is nearer with HE500 than with LCD-2 rev2 and/or pair their phones with non-neutral amps and then judge their signatures. They even feel HE500 is "darker than ideal". It's simply not true if you are talking about real neutrality (flat FR graph is not equal neutrality in the world of headphones).

 

LCD-2 rev2 are for sure a bit more neutral than HE-500... Ideal bass, ideal mids and slightly recessed treble in specific regions (not completely). HE-500 are not completely flat to the lowest regions, mids are going to be about the same and the treble is peaky from 7 - 11 khz ( = around 10 khz). But this can work better for many people - that's absolutely ok. But remember that treble is very easy to EQ, bass absolutely not.

Yeah some peeps can be shocked to think of the LCD2's as being neutral as they seem to have (or used to anyway)  an undeserved reputation of being basshead cans. I do think the HE500's have a dark signature. But they have that "glare" or "zing" is how like to put it ;) at the top, and this is what is so appealing about them. It's like dark and bright at the same time. I've heard the word layering mentioned a few times and they do this well because of the light/dark element me thinks.

As Tyll put it, they are both neutral headphones, but it just depends on what you're interpretation of neutral is.  

post #983 of 4945

Quote:

Originally Posted by inanevoyage View Post

Thanks for the info. If they are similar enough, I'm going to stick to my previously scheduled HE-500 purchase. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inanevoyage View Post

 

I'm in the market for one of the two. Which is more comfortable for long listening sessions?

 

Schiit Bifrost -> Lyr - > HE-500 is what I'm looking at right now.

 

Based on your dac/amp choice I would suggest going with the LCD2 Rev2. In my view the HE-500s require more power than the Lyr can swing. Having tried both HPs with that kind of setup the Audeze/Lyr combo was much more synergistic than the HE-500/Lyr combo. You can always go with the Hifiman but I think you would require a different amp combo to really bring their shine out.

post #984 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

I think there is more of a difference with the velour/pleather on the hifimans because there is less of a seal with the velours. Therefore the sound is a little more "free" and the bass doesn't swamp the other FR as much. The Audezes pads are much larger and have a larger surface area that seals, so this minimizes the effects of using different materials. Might be more of a difference if they used velour possibly..?

 

The thing IMHO is that Audeze just took much more care in delivering the same sound signature in order to let their customers still benefit from the knowledge of FR. To me, it's crucial...

post #985 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Yeah some peeps can be shocked to think of the LCD2's as being neutral as they seem to have (or used to anyway)  an undeserved reputation of being basshead cans. I do think the HE500's have a dark signature. But they have that "glare" or "zing" is how like to put it ;) at the top, and this is what is so appealing about them. It's like dark and bright at the same time. I've heard the word layering mentioned a few times and they do this well because of the light/dark element me thinks.

As Tyll put it, they are both neutral headphones, but it just depends on what you're interpretation of neutral is.  

 

Yes... As I said before - there are differences between them but they are small enough to say that everyone can successfully find his/her ideal pair of headphones here if he/she is able to recognize those differences from measurements and/or opinions on head-fi and THEN decides which one to choose!


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 1:59pm
post #986 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

I think there is more of a difference with the velour/pleather on the hifimans because there is less of a seal with the velours. Therefore the sound is a little more "free" and the bass doesn't swamp the other FR as much. The Audezes pads are much larger and have a larger surface area that seals, so this minimizes the effects of using different materials. Might be more of a difference if they used velour possibly..?
Maybe sign a petition to mr. Fang to improve the velours pads..how about it?
post #987 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Maybe sign a petition to mr. Fang to improve the velours pads..how about it?

Thing is I prefer the velours and the sound imo is better for it. But! they aren't the best quality... They are hard and not the most comfortable compared to other velour types. Problem is, if they were to be softer they will probs squash to quickly and might affect the sound too much because of the weight and clamp pressure.. If I was to advise the great man (yes he is!) I would say to use much thicker but softer foam. Or.. don't have as much of a spring in the headband.  

post #988 of 4945

Sorry to hijack your discussion guys, but I also feel the need to add the HE-5LE :)

Those who are looking for cans to use with portable amps, should probably stick with the HE-400.

If, however, you are looking for a great pair of cans to use solely at home, lets call it "home rig", I simply have to recommend the HE-5LE as well.

These are highly underrated - partly due to being overshadowed by the release of the HE-500.

 

These cans are great! They are very special, as they sound quite different than the HE-500 and the LCD-2s.

 

Problem for some might be the fact that they require much more current than the aforementioned, we are talking powerful headphone amps, but ideally speaker amps.

 

They cost 700, same price as the HE-500 and 300 less than the LCDs. Of course depends on what you re looking for.

 

But if, like me, you are looking for a reasonably priced yet all-round exquisite performing headphone, these might be just what you were looking for (here is a great comparison thread - http://www.head-fi.org/t/617961/hifiman-he-5le-v-he-500)

 

In general they are closer to the HE-500 than to the HE-6.

They have nice sparkly but smooth treble, great midrange and nice deep bass... By many considered to be better than both of these headphones you talked about.

Of course here the key is amping though...

 

I will be using the Emotiva Mini-X a-100 - this amp has great synergy with the HIFIman, but might not be suitable for the LCDs.

 

I will just cut it short now.... Consider this little guy just another competition :D

 

They can be bought at head-direct.com, but they might be discontinued early next year..

 

Hope this helps somewhat :) Best regards, Luke

post #989 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post

Sorry to hijack your discussion guys, but I also feel the need to add the HE-5LE :)

Those who are looking for cans to use with portable amps, should probably stick with the HE-400.

If, however, you are looking for a great pair of cans to use solely at home, lets call it "home rig", I simply have to recommend the HE-5LE as well.

These are highly underrated - partly due to being overshadowed by the release of the HE-500.

 

These cans are great! They are very special, as they sound quite different than the HE-500 and the LCD-2s.

 

Problem for some might be the fact that they require much more current than the aforementioned, we are talking powerful headphone amps, but ideally speaker amps.

 

They cost 700, same price as the HE-500 and 300 less than the LCDs. Of course depends on what you re looking for.

 

But if, like me, you are looking for a reasonably priced yet all-round exquisite performing headphone, these might be just what you were looking for (here is a great comparison thread - http://www.head-fi.org/t/617961/hifiman-he-5le-v-he-500)

 

In general they are closer to the HE-500 than to the HE-6.

They have nice sparkly but smooth treble, great midrange and nice deep bass... By many considered to be better than both of these headphones you talked about.

Of course here the key is amping though...

 

I will be using the Emotiva Mini-X a-100 - this amp has great synergy with the HIFIman, but might not be suitable for the LCDs.

 

I will just cut it short now.... Consider this little guy just another competition :D

 

They can be bought at head-direct.com, but they might be discontinued early next year..

 

Hope this helps somewhat :) Best regards, Luke

 

No need to apologize... :-)

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE500.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE5LE.pdf

 

From these measurements, Hifiman HE-500 seem to perform more consistently in terms of balance between right and left channel across all the measurements. Also the square waves are more natural with HE-500, smoother. HE-500 is also more flat in mids and bass and have more natural looking shelving in treble. The peak around 10khz is even more obvious but it's only a small difference.

 

It those two cost the same price, I would take He-500 anytime as they are definitely easier to drive as well. HE-5LE are quite close but they should rather cost 100USD less or so to be considered as good as HE500 in terms of real value IMHO.


Edited by MHOE - 11/16/12 at 3:03pm
post #990 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

No need to apologize... :-)

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE500.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE5LE.pdf

 

From these measurements, Hifiman HE-500 seem to perform more consistently in terms of balance between right and left channel across all the measurements. Also the square waves are more natural with HE-500, smoother. HE-500 is also more flat in mids and bass and have more natural looking shelving in treble.

 

It those two cost the same price, I would take He-500 anytime as they are definitely easier to drive as well. HE-5LE are quite close but they should rather cost 100USD less or so to be considered as good as HE500 in terms of real value IMHO.

 

Yes I would think so at first glance too... But if you look at the thread posted in my previous post, the HE-5LE, when driven from a speaker amp, compared to the HE-500 driven from either a balanced headphone amp, or the same speaker amp, simply doesnt sound so good...

 

Of course if you use headphone amps only, the HE-500 is definitely better.

 

But when you use speaker amps, the HE-5LE simly seems to be the better value...

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13)