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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 60

post #886 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

I don't know all the amps in the world but the most possible case with warmness/brightness is that the manufacturer just designed them to sound this way. For example simple Fiio E11 has emphasis on bass even though you are not using bass switch on it. Fiio E9 is for sure more neutral but lacks transparency. Xonar Essence ST is behaving strange with higher gain settings, being too much distorted... Tube amps are also the case with their harmonic distortion.

 

Another thing is suitability... Low impedance phones require a lot of current which not every amplifier is able to deliver. Also, amps' outputs are very often of higher impedance than ideal which can cause muddiness in bass and higher level of overal distortion with some phones.

 

Also, if you do not use ideal gain resistors for every particular headphone, you are loosing transparency and adding distortion. An ideal gain for one pair of headphones is the one where you get loud enough + little more on full volume. Good amp needs to be audibly transparent even when turning the volume knob towards the max.

 

Stability also plays role... Majority of amps could have good measurements but are starting to perform worse in special conditions (for example with low impedance phones as mentioned before). Also, they are phones which have stable impedance across the frequency spectrum, and there are ones with more diverse graphs (see Sennheisers). This can of course cause problems... Amps powered by batteries are also going to perform weaker in certain categories.

 

I am sure enough I didn't mentioned all the options that can happen... But the simple outcome from all of this would be that you should only use transparent, neutral and stable performing amp to achieve the best results (read working as it should).


Interesting to read. Thank you for writing such an informative post! I'm starting to get into amps a little bit. I've always kind of tried to avoid tube amps because of their "unclean" signal, but in concept, they are extremely neat to me. I would actually like to get my hands on a Bottlehead S.E.X. or Crack some day just because I think tube amps are so awesome.

 

I just purchased an Objective2 amp because I've read that it's supposed to be a very good amp for the price. It certainly sounds very good to me and I'm liking the clean, transparent output it has.

 

 

One question, though I hope not to derail the thread, how does an amp increase the soundstage? The O2 adds very little colouration, if at all, when connected to my Sansa Clip Zip (yeah yeah, double amplification is a concern in this situation), at least to my ears. On the other hand, the soundstage and instrumentation separation seems to be increased, and I notice this effect too when I connect it to my MacBook (yeah yeah not the best source either).

post #887 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

Yeah, it may sound too courageous but I am really not interested in any tube amps just because they are not neutral... I am simply looking for neutrality, nothing else (that said, I have nothing against tube amps in general). This is why I have O2 amplifier with ODAC - because of available measurements, a lot of explained theory behind it on the author's blog, manuals how to customise it without loosing the high level of fidelity and because even Tyll from innerfidelity confirms it as a top performer. You cannot get anything better as a DAC and amp in this price range... I unfortunately do not have 40k dollars for purchasing something you have in your inventory :-)

You would fall in love with the BHA-1 in that case. Especially for your lcd's, killer pairing.

post #888 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

You would fall in love with the BHA-1 in that case. Especially for your lcd's, killer pairing.


Having heard the BHA-1 with a few headphone pairings I would second that!  Although I do feel the balanced implementation sounds better than the SE output

post #889 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

I think I'm remembering correctly when I say that for that graph, Tyll measured a pair we had lying around at the Headphones.com office. So my experience with the Beats Pro is based specifically on the model measured in that chart.   I used it frequently as a reference,  when comparing other consumer-oriented headphones.  It truly wasn't bad, but by audiophile standards it doesn't offer the type of presentation that one would typically find compelling.  In its class and for its specific consumer type, I found it to be a decent enough offering - too expensive for the quality of sound - but not bad sounding.... not as bad as I actually thought they would have sounded.

 

Interesting... How much do they cost normally in the US?

post #890 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTrewwye View Post


Having heard the BHA-1 with a few headphone pairings I would second that!  Although I do feel the balanced implementation sounds better than the SE output

 

Maybe one day when less short on money... Do not need anything else than ODAC-O2-LCD2rev2 to achieve exactly what I want right now. smily_headphones1.gif

post #891 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


Interesting to read. Thank you for writing such an informative post! I'm starting to get into amps a little bit. I've always kind of tried to avoid tube amps because of their "unclean" signal, but in concept, they are extremely neat to me. I would actually like to get my hands on a Bottlehead S.E.X. or Crack some day just because I think tube amps are so awesome.

 

I just purchased an Objective2 amp because I've read that it's supposed to be a very good amp for the price. It certainly sounds very good to me and I'm liking the clean, transparent output it has.

 

 

One question, though I hope not to derail the thread, how does an amp increase the soundstage? The O2 adds very little colouration, if at all, when connected to my Sansa Clip Zip (yeah yeah, double amplification is a concern in this situation), at least to my ears. On the other hand, the soundstage and instrumentation separation seems to be increased, and I notice this effect too when I connect it to my MacBook (yeah yeah not the best source either).

 

I don't think it is possible that O2 improves anything on the sound... Maybe what you hear is its improvement over other amps/DACs but it does not change anything itself. It is designed to be as neutral, stable and transparent as possible in this price category.

post #892 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

I really wouldn't want to assign a number to a headphone which  I don't own and haven't spent a lot of time with.  However,  I think the HD598 is a very good headphone for the price.

 

It would be really funny to include Beats in the review, eh?  I think people outside the audiophile community would anticipate a Beats By Dre headphone as being in the top spot (or top 5).  If the review ever somehow found a wider audience than the Head-fi community, I may in fact include a Beats headphone for reference.  It wouldn't rank particularly well in this list though:)

Value of beats Pro: F- biggrin.gif

post #893 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetdragon View Post

Value of beats Pro: F- biggrin.gif

 

How much do Beats Pro cost? I would like to start laughing as well but I would rather pay 1000USD for beats pro than 35 000USD for Sennheiser HE-90 to be honest (e-bay)... ,-)

post #894 of 4937

How much do Beats Pro cost? I would like to start laughing as well but I would rather pay 1000USD for beats pro than 35 000USD for Sennheiser HE-90 (e-bay) along with other 10k+ for suitable amp to be honest... ,-)

post #895 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

How much do Beats Pro cost? I would like to start laughing as well but I would rather pay 1000USD for beats pro than 35 000USD for Sennheiser HE-90 (e-bay) along with other 10k+ for suitable amp to be honest... ,-)

OMG 35000 usd for an out of production second hand phone? biggrin.gif and 1000usd for a dr. Beats headphone thingie with lots of bling bling? Where does the world go to.. biggrin.gif
post #896 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


OMG 35000 usd for an out of production second hand phone? biggrin.gif and 1000usd for a dr. Beats headphone thingie with lots of bling bling? Where does the world go to.. biggrin.gif

 

Actually I was wrong... You can get them with the amp ONLY FOR 25 000 USD, a true bargain!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE-90-and-HEV-90-the-set-2-/300814105569?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item4609eafbe1

 

If you feel it is too economy for you, you can still purchase the same used pair of headphones and the amp for 31 000 USD from the same seller!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE-90-and-HEV-90-the-set-1-/300803280434?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item460945ce32


Edited by MHOE - 11/15/12 at 12:28am
post #897 of 4937

I prefer paying $100k more for a Sennheiser Orpheus setup, rather than pay $1000 for the beats wink.gif

post #898 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

Actually I was wrong... You can get them with the amp ONLY FOR 25 000 USD, a true bargain!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE-90-and-HEV-90-the-set-2-/300814105569?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item4609eafbe1

 

If you feel it is too economy for you, you can still purchase the same used pair of headphones and the amp for 31 000 USD from the same seller!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE-90-and-HEV-90-the-set-1-/300803280434?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item460945ce32

oh dear, too much money to splash around it seemswink.gif

post #899 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

How much do Beats Pro cost? I would like to start laughing as well but I would rather pay 1000USD for beats pro than 35 000USD for Sennheiser HE-90 (e-bay) along with other 10k+ for suitable amp to be honest... ,-)

The Senn HE90 are top of the list with cost not being a factor.

 

(Point taken, please lets not turn this great thread into a Beats argument, there are sooo many threads dedicated to his topic)

 

beerchug.gif

post #900 of 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

Actually I was wrong... You can get them with the amp ONLY FOR 25 000 USD, a true bargain!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE-90-and-HEV-90-the-set-2-/300814105569?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item4609eafbe1

If you feel it is too economy for you, you can still purchase the same used pair of headphones and the amp for 31 000 USD from the same seller!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE-90-and-HEV-90-the-set-1-/300803280434?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item460945ce32
Damn THAT is a bargain!..let me check my secret swish bankaccount and tellthe bank my new 599fx will be paid a bit later..hahaha biggrin.gif and u know whats weird...the guy will sell that piece for sure..no matter what financial crisis the world is in.. mad.gif ..as there are always people who actually have that as pocket change in their wallets..i actually know one..he has a set of some weird lookin '100.000 euros plus' worth of speakers and a X5 to get out to the parc with the girlfriend and his dog so the latter wont damage the leather in his SLS lolz ..well thinkin bout it..the dog wont fit anyway in the latter..lolz..

Seriously..ofcourse its considered best of the best..but then again..u also have to invest in an amp for at least twice the worth of the phones and ur source must me also on the same level..like a cd player with the power unit separated or something else exotic.... biggrin.gif
Edited by hifimanrookie - 11/15/12 at 1:16am
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13)