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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 57

post #841 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

There's a lot of speculation that my ear prefers a brighter sound than the norm.  I know in this instance you personalize it rather than saying in general.  I appreciate that! :)

 

I think it's worth saying that I like different sound signatures for different reasons.  The Orpheus (my favorite headphone) is not a headphone which I'd imagine most people would hear as bright.

 

I think it's worth saying here that it is probable that more listeners prefer a bit of warmth in their sound.  I've come to this conclusion over time observing comments and criticisms.  It also make sense that warmth (not just bass) is associated with emotion in music.  It make sense to me that when I proclaim something like the HD800 as being neutral (a headphone which CAN sound bright - but can also sound warm) some people may walk away with the impression that I favor a bright sound.  It's not true, but I understand where and for what reason this assessment of my preferences originates.

 

x2. One just learns to ignore after a while. These people don't know what they're talking about.

post #842 of 4945

Oh my goodness. Just dropped by to thank you for this incredible write-up. Super detailed and well done. Thanks!

post #843 of 4945

Please do a review for Sony MDR-CD3000 in the near future. I will have a brand new pair soon. I would like to read your opinion in how this discontinued pair of headphones stack up with the newest headphones.

post #844 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

Yes, I think the HD800 is a very good choice for that sort of application.  The HD600 is a bit more forgiving and that's not a good thing perhaps for this type of application.  

 

For professional monitoring:  HD800 is definitely at the top for me. The DT880 is a very good choice.  The K701 is very good once you become familiar with its sound signature.  I would stay away from the HD600 and HD650 because it's slightly lush presentation will affect the way in which you mix.  One thing to consider is, if you can get your mix to sound good on an K701 and then something like an apple bud and then a Beats headphone (and of course basic speakers like laptop or car speakers).... if it can sound good enough on all those, you're pretty much set.  

Excellent! Just the kind of advice I have been looking for. Many Thanks!

post #845 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

 

x2. One just learns to ignore after a while. These people don't know what they're talking about.

 

I would say if you use neutral and powerful enough amp (current, volts) you should always achieve the same results as a properly working amp is only strenghtening the signal, nothing more (no added distortion, no coloration). From different frequency response graphs, HD800 seem to be rather bright because of not completely flat bass to the lowest regions and because of certain boosts in some treble frequencies. But still, they are neutral in comparison with many many other phones...

post #846 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

There's a lot of speculation that my ear prefers a brighter sound than the norm.  I know in this instance you personalize it rather than saying in general.  I appreciate that! :)

 

I think it's worth saying that I like different sound signatures for different reasons.  The Orpheus (my favorite headphone) is not a headphone which I'd imagine most people would hear as bright.

 

I think it's worth saying here that it is probable that more listeners prefer a bit of warmth in their sound.  I've come to this conclusion over time observing comments and criticisms.  It also make sense that warmth (not just bass) is associated with emotion in music.  It make sense to me that when I proclaim something like the HD800 as being neutral (a headphone which CAN sound bright - but can also sound warm) some people may walk away with the impression that I favor a bright sound.  It's not true, but I understand where and for what reason this assessment of my preferences originates.

 

I guess I can only say that my conclusion is based on your comments of those phones I've actually owned. DT880 I found unbearably bright; I think I tried to ward it off with the sign of the cross at first hearing. ATH-AD900 just had too much of everything but midrange for me. AKG K702--again, too trebley, and with a steely tinge to boot. I think I've heard most of the midrange favourites; I was bouncing around like Goldilocks there for a while. Then I found the HD650, and for a time all was sweetness and light. More recently it's been the LCD-2 (Rev1) and, most recently, the HE-500, either one of which I could live with long term. From that I guess you can see where I'm coming from and how I get the impression your tolerance of more lively phones is greater than mine.

 

It's not of course a question of who's right, but rather of correctly assessing the reviewer's taste in order to get the most value out of the reviews. Everyone should be doing that, including those who posted wondering why their favourite phones have been undervalued somehow. As it happens my favourite phones have been well appreciated, which just goes to show that you're not one of those who favours a certain balance and rejects all else--like me, for instance. All that said, I'll still be reading your individual reviews with the same slightly jaundiced eye, always remembering that what to me was the work of the devil earned from you an A+.    tongue.gif

post #847 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

I guess I can only say that my conclusion is based on your comments of those phones I've actually owned. DT880 I found unbearably bright; I think I tried to ward it off with the sign of the cross at first hearing. ATH-AD900 just had too much of everything but midrange for me. AKG K702--again, too trebley, and with a steely tinge to boot. I think I've heard most of the midrange favourites; I was bouncing around like Goldilocks there for a while. Then I found the HD650, and for a time all was sweetness and light. More recently it's been the LCD-2 (Rev1) and, most recently, the HE-500, either one of which I could live with long term. From that I guess you can see where I'm coming from and how I get the impression your tolerance of more lively phones is greater than mine.

It's not of course a question of who's right, but rather of correctly assessing the reviewer's taste in order to get the most value out of the reviews. Everyone should be doing that, including those who posted wondering why their favourite phones have been undervalued somehow. As it happens my favourite phones have been well appreciated, which just goes to show that you're not one of those who favours a certain balance and rejects all else--like me, for instance. All that said, I'll still be reading your individual reviews with the same slightly jaundiced eye, always remembering that what to me was the work of the devil earned from you an A+.    tongue.gif

everything here looks right except for the ad900 lacking midrange. ermmm those are all mids unless you meant the a900 which lack mids.
post #848 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

From that I guess you can see where I'm coming from and how I get the impression your tolerance of more lively phones is greater than mine.

You mentionned about tinnitus, you don't suffer from hyperacousis? It's a condition that is the result of overexposure to loud sounds and thus may come along with tinnitus. Essentially, the threashold of discomfort and eventually pain is much lower than for healthy hearing, which will make one favor recessed phones in the most sensitive region of the hearing (e.g 1-4kHz range). Not saying you're deaf, but once you have any sign of hearing impairment (like tinnitus even if mild), it's worth to question its own hearing before claiming someone else prefers "brighter sound signatures".
post #849 of 4945
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

I would say if you use neutral and powerful enough amp (current, volts) you should always achieve the same results as a properly working amp is only strenghtening the signal, nothing more (no added distortion, no coloration). From different frequency response graphs, HD800 seem to be rather bright because of not completely flat bass to the lowest regions and because of certain boosts in some treble frequencies. But still, they are neutral in comparison with many many other phones...

I wouldn't say that a properly working amp is not going to color or add harmonic distortion.  If this were true, one would have to discredit all tubes to some extent.  I think it would be fair to  change the phrase in your sentence from "properly working" to a "perfectly neutral"

 

A lot of amp builders will say that their amp is the best because it acts as nothing more than a transparent window between the source and the headphone, but this is rarely if ever the case that the amp would be transparent, yet provide no harmonic distortion (especially if a tube amp).  An amp can be transparent and still colored.  In fact that is usually the case in my experience.  One of the things I appreciate about tube amps (especially transformer coupled) is the added roundness and even sometimes slowness that adds a sense of wetness and life to the sound if the amp is built well.  All my amps are presently working properly :)
 


Edited by DavidMahler - 11/14/12 at 7:46am
post #850 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

I wouldn't say that a properly working amp is not going to color or add harmonic distortion.  If this were true, one would have to discredit all tubes to some extent.  I think it would be fair to  change the phrase in your sentence from "properly working" to a "perfectly neutral"

 

A lot of amp builders will say that their amp is the best because it acts as nothing more than a transparent window between the source and the headphone, but this is rarely if ever the case that the amp would be transparent, yet provide no harmonic distortion (especially if a tube amp).  An amp can be transparent and still colored.  In fact that is usually the case in my experience.  One of the things I appreciate about tube amps (especially transformer coupled) is the added roundness and even sometimes slowness that adds a sense of wetness and life to the sound if the amp is built well.  All my amps are presently working properly :)
 

 

Yeah, it may sound too courageous but I am really not interested in any tube amps just because they are not neutral... I am simply looking for neutrality, nothing else (that said, I have nothing against tube amps in general). This is why I have O2 amplifier with ODAC - because of available measurements, a lot of explained theory behind it on the author's blog, manuals how to customise it without loosing the high level of fidelity and because even Tyll from innerfidelity confirms it as a top performer. You cannot get anything better as a DAC and amp in this price range... I unfortunately do not have 40k dollars for purchasing something you have in your inventory :-)

post #851 of 4945

Wow, it's so nice!

post #852 of 4945
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

Yeah, it may sound too courageous but I am really not interested in any tube amps just because they are not neutral... I am simply looking for neutrality, nothing else (that said, I have nothing against tube amps in general). This is why I have O2 amplifier with ODAC - because of available measurements, a lot of explained theory behind it on the author's blog, manuals how to customise it without loosing the high level of fidelity and because even Tyll from innerfidelity confirms it as a top performer. You cannot get anything better as a DAC and amp in this price range... I unfortunately do not have 40k dollars for purchasing something you have in your inventory :-)


I feel where you're coming from!

 

MSB Tech (maker of my DAC) feels that Solid State tends to be a better fit to have the full potential of their DAC realized.  However, I look at a headphone as one piece of the puzzle.  If I feel like the headphone itself is neutral or warm or bright or whatever my description would be, I use the amp pairing as a way to assist the headphone in reaching a sound that is even better to my ears.  Because many of the headphones on my list require amplification, I've tried to find the best amp pairing I could given my resources. 

post #853 of 4945

Just to add, in regards to the assumption that the op prefers "bright" hp's; With David prefering classical music, it makes sense that he is going to appreciate headphones that are more detailed in the upper frequencies, such as the HD800, HE6 etc..  I think it should be appreciated that not many headphones can reproduce classical music convincingly and still be pleasing with other genres. I thought the K702's were great for classical but annoying for electronic music and pop for e.g. There are of course preferences for a more warmer sound signature with more rolled of treble for classical (650's LCD2's), but this for me is more of a personal preference and shouldn't be confused with being objective to capability. Not saying that David only listened to classical when reviewing because he obviously didn't, but it's worth bearing in mind

post #854 of 4945
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Just to add, in regards to the assumption that the op prefers "bright" hp's; With David prefering classical music, it makes sense that he is going to appreciate headphones that are more detailed in the upper frequencies, such as the HD800, HE6 etc..  I think it should be appreciated that not many headphones can reproduce classical music convincingly and still be pleasing with other genres. I thought the K702's were great for classical but annoying for electronic music and pop for e.g. There are of course preferences for a more warmer sound signature with more rolled of treble for classical (650's LCD2's), but this for me is more of a personal preference and shouldn't be confused with being objective to capability. Not saying that David only listened to classical when reviewing because he obviously didn't, but it's worth bearing in mind


Thank you for this.  I wouldn't say I "prefer" classical music.

 

I just checked my iPod for arists who have been in rotation the most recently, this is what I found (Top 10)

Keith Jarrett

Haydn

Genesis

Duke Ellington

Mahler

Bruckner

Yes

Elliott Smith

Donald Fagen

Animal Collective

 

gs1000.gif

post #855 of 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post


Thank you for this.  I wouldn't say I "prefer" classical music.

 

I just checked my iPod for arists who have been in rotation the most recently, this is what I found (Top 10)

Keith Jarrett

Haydn

Genesis

Duke Ellington

Mahler

Bruckner

Yes

Elliott Smith

Donald Fagen

Animal Collective

 

gs1000.gif

That's one eclectic list! And some great artists there. I've been into classical for about 10 year now, (I'm a Beethoven/Bach/Schumann/Schubert man!), but my second love is Jazz. I also like good electronic music. It's weird because I've played guitar in Rock bands most of my life (now only for fun recording with friends) but I never really listen to it much! Suppose you don't want to bring your work home with you ha!

My favorite headphone is the LCD2's but its defo a personal preference as I know there are "technically better" hp's for classical. But Jazz...mmmm they may very well be the best! :)

 

Cheers

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13)