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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 56

post #826 of 4946
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

David, I've been reading through your review again and while overall I find it almost flawless, I have an issue with your points about lack of euphony in certain headphones that you otherwise describe as technically brilliant, like HD800 for example (I haven't heard any of the Stax 'phones, so can't judged based on those). In particular you describe that euphony are certain distortions that add humaneness to the sound. I would agree that distortions present in recordings can do that, but when distortion is present in the gear, I think it actually makes the music sound less humane, because it adds things to recordings that weren't there originally and that would almost certainly not be added by the sound engineer. Thus, if a headphone is technically brilliant, then it should allow the listener to hear recordings the way they were meant to be heard (provided that the source is equally brilliant of course), and should allow whatever emotion was captured in the recording to be heard well. Personally, I found HD800 very fun sounding with with some music.

believe it or not, we are both dancing around the same fence.  It's hard to explain, but if you can think of tubes as providing more harmonic distortion than solid state, then maybe that will be a good base point of where I'm coming from

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG Jag View Post

Thanks for putting this together.  It will probably sadden you to know that you have similar taste in headphones (at least the ones with which I am familiar) as a 60 year old!

I'm not really sure what this means haha

 

I would presume the average young person around 20 would be more familiar with Beats and Bose

 

Maybe as one climbs the ladder in age you become aware of Sennheiser, Grado, Shure etc

 

 

But I don't think I see where you're going with that statement.

Also, it would never sadden me to have shared taste in something with a 60 year old.  A lot of the music I listen to is 300 years old haha.


Edited by DavidMahler - 11/13/12 at 10:08am
post #827 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

These are fantastic results for closed headphones. Should sound pretty superb and worth the price.

 

Agree. If that is the current measurement of Paradox, these are definitely the best closed phones in their price category from what I have seen so far...

 

Unfortunately, I am very sensitive to treble (e.g. IMHO D7000 are clearly bright-sounding phones, painful to my ears quite sometimes even though they are rather dark according to many headfiers (David also does not mention anything wrong about their treble) and measurements which show no emphasised treble in comparison to many other phones. Therefore only cans like Audeze or HD650 can impress me enough =/

post #828 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

Agree. If that is the current measurement of Paradox, these are definitely the best closed phones in their price category from what I have seen so far...

 

Unfortunately, I am very sensitive to treble (e.g. IMHO D7000 are clearly bright-sounding phones, painful to my ears quite sometimes even though they are rather dark according to many headfiers (David also does not mention anything wrong about their treble) and measurements which show no emphasised treble in comparison to many other phones. Therefore only cans like Audeze or HD650 can impress me enough =/

 

I find the D7000 extremely painful too despite its elevated bass. There is a sharp resonance at 8-9kHz of a pair that I measured. Some people are sensitive to this. Others are not. I also have reason to believe there is some unit-to-unit variation with the D7000 in terms of treble behavior.

 

I can assure you that the Paradox does not exhibit this behavior, otherwise I would have personally slain LFF with my light saber.

 

D7000 decay shows "ringing" or resonance in the treble.

 

Paradox decay is much smoother and even.

post #829 of 4946

Is this turning in the mother of all threads? Maybe it should be a site by itself (on headroom?).

post #830 of 4946
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Is this turning in the mother of all threads? Maybe it should be a site by itself (on headroom?).


do you mean headphones.com?  I made this review specifically for the head-fi community:)  started it long before I became an industry insider.  Many of the headphones are out of production anyway.

post #831 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

I find the D7000 extremely painful too despite its elevated bass. There is a sharp resonance at 8-9kHz of a pair that I measured. Some people are sensitive to this. Others are not. I also have reason to believe there is some unit-to-unit variation with the D7000 in terms of treble behavior.

 

I can assure you that the Paradox does not exhibit this behavior, otherwise I would have personally slain LFF with my light saber.

 

D7000 decay shows "ringing" or resonance in the treble.

 

Paradox decay is much smoother and even.

 

If you have a look at D7000 vs D7000 2012 measurement (innerfidelity), there are differences for sure... And not only in treble, mids are close-to-neutral or even bass is improved. Most probably those factors could be a cause of different opinions among head-fiers. Also, some people are sensitive and some are less in terms of treble.

 

I am glad to see those measurements... Paradox seem to be a very nice pair of headphones. Still not for me (do not need anything else than LCD-2 rev2 for serious listening really) but I do very appreciate they are available on the market! I am adding Paradox to a very small group of headphones I find personally interesting!

post #832 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post


do you mean headphones.com?  I made this review specifically for the head-fi community:)  started it long before I became an industry insider.  Many of the headphones are out of production anyway.

 

Is it any possible for you to listen to Audeze LCD-2 rev2 and at least add a note to your review of Rev1? I think it may help many people as rev2 have angled connectors, revised headband and pads, improved treble and even better detail according to Audeze...

 

For me, it does not matter really but I don't think it's fair to compare only rev1 to the others as you, for example, have heard more than one pair of both HD800 or HE-6 (the most serious competitors to LCD-2!). I think LCD-2 deserves it... :-)


Edited by MHOE - 11/13/12 at 1:36pm
post #833 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

If you have a look at D7000 vs D7000 2012 measurement (innerfidelity), there are differences for sure... And not only in treble, mids are close-to-neutral or even bass is improved. Most probably those factors could be a cause of different opinions among head-fiers. Also, some people are sensitive and some are less in terms of treble.

 

I am glad to see those measurements... Paradox seem to be a very nice pair of headphones. Still not for me (do not need anything else than LCD-2 rev2 for serious listening really) but I do very appreciate they are available on the market! I am adding Paradox to a very small group of headphones I find personally interesting!

 

 

Check it out - Post #126

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/633956/the-t50rp-paradox-review-mini-tour-impressions/126

post #834 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

Check it out - Post #126

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/633956/the-t50rp-paradox-review-mini-tour-impressions/126

 

Yes, I have read this right today, thanks for posting! :-)

post #835 of 4946
Thread Starter 

The Paradox definitely is one I'd consider adding to the mix.  I could use more closed headphones:)

post #836 of 4946
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHOE View Post

 

Is it any possible for you to listen to Audeze LCD-2 rev2 and at least add a note to your review of Rev1? I think it may help many people as rev2 have angled connectors, revised headband and pads, improved treble and even better detail according to Audeze...

 

For me, it does not matter really but I don't think it's fair to compare only rev1 to the others as you, for example, have heard more than one pair of both HD800 or HE-6 (the most serious competitors to LCD-2!). I think LCD-2 deserves it... :-)

It's something I would consider, though its right now not at the forefront of my list.  Definitely, would consider it though!

post #837 of 4946

Hey, I finally made it to the end of the thread. It only took me a week. Anyway, David, props to you for such a massive effort. It's one thing for someone to have such a huge collection of worthy headphones; it's another thing to have the skill to be able to distinguish between them in an authoritative way. 

 

Anyway, my primary question has to do with usefulness for everything from sound design/synthesis to composition/arranging to mixing to mastering (or pre-mastering at least). I have some monitors (Events) that need to be replaced, and until I do so, I have been using headphones for most of the above tasks. Right now, I mostly alternate between the DT880 and the LCD-2.2, depending on what I am doing, and whether I want to check on highs or lows, etc.From reading your reviews, if I wanted to use one general reference hp, it looks like it would point to the HD800. Am I correct in this? I had also considered that the HD600 would be good in this regard. Can you give a short list of what you consider good headphones for these purposes?  Thanks much.

post #838 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by KG Jag View Post

Thanks for putting this together.  It will probably sadden you to know that you have similar taste in headphones (at least the ones with which I am familiar) as a 60 year old!

 

Well, I'm 66 and my taste in headphones is nothing like David's as it's clear he favours rather bright--to my taste--phones. So where does that leave us? (Incidentally, knowing that doesn't make his comments any less useful to me. So long as I know it and can make adjustments, they remain very relevant).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


Really? But most 60 year olds have bad hearing aids.lolz..so they wont be using sennheiser,hifiman, audeze, stax or even beyerdynamic and the sorts..as they would sit right in front of full size loudspeakers on full power...hahaha biggrin.gif

 

I must admit I have tinnitus, but it isn't sufficient to stop me currently enjoying both LCD-2 (Rev1) and HE-500. I don't know how old you are, but 60 odd often seems very old until you are 60 odd, and then it seems not really old at all. Just wait, you'll find out.  tongue.gif


Edited by pp312 - 11/14/12 at 3:35am
post #839 of 4946
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonkulator View Post

Hey, I finally made it to the end of the thread. It only took me a week. Anyway, David, props to you for such a massive effort. It's one thing for someone to have such a huge collection of worthy headphones; it's another thing to have the skill to be able to distinguish between them in an authoritative way. 

 

Anyway, my primary question has to do with usefulness for everything from sound design/synthesis to composition/arranging to mixing to mastering (or pre-mastering at least). I have some monitors (Events) that need to be replaced, and until I do so, I have been using headphones for most of the above tasks. Right now, I mostly alternate between the DT880 and the LCD-2.2, depending on what I am doing, and whether I want to check on highs or lows, etc.From reading your reviews, if I wanted to use one general reference hp, it looks like it would point to the HD800. Am I correct in this? I had also considered that the HD600 would be good in this regard. Can you give a short list of what you consider good headphones for these purposes?  Thanks much.

Yes, I think the HD800 is a very good choice for that sort of application.  The HD600 is a bit more forgiving and that's not a good thing perhaps for this type of application.  

 

For professional monitoring:  HD800 is definitely at the top for me. The DT880 is a very good choice.  The K701 is very good once you become familiar with its sound signature.  I would stay away from the HD600 and HD650 because it's slightly lush presentation will affect the way in which you mix.  One thing to consider is, if you can get your mix to sound good on an K701 and then something like an apple bud and then a Beats headphone (and of course basic speakers like laptop or car speakers).... if it can sound good enough on all those, you're pretty much set.  

post #840 of 4946
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

 

Well, I'm 66 and my taste in headphones is nothing like David's as it's clear he favours rather bright--to my taste--phones. So where does that leave us? (Incidentally, knowing that doesn't make his comments any less useful to me. So long as I know it and can make adjustments, they remain very relevant).

 

There's a lot of speculation that my ear prefers a brighter sound than the norm.  I know in this instance you personalize it rather than saying in general.  I appreciate that! :)

 

I think it's worth saying that I like different sound signatures for different reasons.  The Orpheus (my favorite headphone) is not a headphone which I'd imagine most people would hear as bright.

 

I think it's worth saying here that it is probable that more listeners prefer a bit of warmth in their sound.  I've come to this conclusion over time observing comments and criticisms.  It also make sense that warmth (not just bass) is associated with emotion in music.  It make sense to me that when I proclaim something like the HD800 as being neutral (a headphone which CAN sound bright - but can also sound warm) some people may walk away with the impression that I favor a bright sound.  It's not true, but I understand where and for what reason this assessment of my preferences originates.


Edited by DavidMahler - 11/13/12 at 8:03pm
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13)