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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 335

post #5011 of 5020
I do agree on the fact that usually at the lowest price bracket, iems sound better than the full sized can counterparts. However, I do believe the sound quality cap is much higher than on iems. Same goes for hp vs speakers. But at 150 dollar price range, although I haven't heard the specific Altone200 itself, with the extensive number of universal iems I've tried, I doubt it would be able to touch the HE400 technically nor can any other universals upto the SE846 price range/sound quality.

Also, alot of people that prefer IEMs to HPs include the practicality when judging their preference. You showed few examples but the truth is majority of people on this forum prefer the sound quality from a full sized can whilst appreciating what their CIEMs can do and perhaps use it more than the cans due to their portability etc. Also, do note that this was when the JH13 hype was beyond ridiculous too. Guess what? Look at their profiles now. Of about 5 people that were raving on how great the JH13s were in 2009, they are back using full sized cans again!

You mention iems have better accuracy and quality of sound. Well how accurate is the sound when the soundstage on an iem is nowhere near the original recorded soundstage? The point I am trying to make is, everything is subjective and as I said, the rank comes down to personal preferences afterall. There's no right or wrong answers unlike what you are trying to portray. No, IEMs are not "simply better" than full sized cans, vice versa. I guess that's what you want to hear at the end of the day. Whichever kool aid you wanna drink, is up to you. But don't expect everyone to start drinking the same kool aid as you.
Edited by jay567 - 12/1/14 at 8:08am
post #5012 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post
 

No need to have a point by point discussion...but you made a pretty blanket statement that I don't think is right (nor would a lot of people) and was just asking for examples. What IEM's in various price ranges have you heard vs. comparatively priced fullsized? I've heard a LOT. Like, 75% of the stuff on this list. IEM's are a clear winner 90% of the time except with soundstage (as I've mentioned previously). 

 

Just saying that if you want to present that argument I don't think it's out of line or asking too much to know what exactly you're referencing.

 

lol it is pretty commonly accepted that full-sized over-ear outperforms other types of headphones in the same price bracket. The comment that IEMs are almost always sonically superior to full-sized headphones would be the comment I am more skeptical of. While you may personally prefer an IEM over a full-sized pair of headphones, I find it hard to believe from my personal experience that IEMs can actually technically outperform good full-sized pair of headphones.

 

IEM drivers and design have to compensate for their small size. both dynamic drivers and balanced armatures of IEMs have limitations. While IEM technology has improved significantly over the past few years, but you still are paying a premium for the small size. It is easier to achieve good sound quality with a full-sized driver over micro-drivers. Even the most expensive IEMs have significant sonic limitations. For IEMs, you simply need to find one that makes your sound signature preferences & are comfortable for you personally. You can look at my profile to see which IEMs and headphones I have tried.

 

I agree with @jay567. None of the IEMs I've tried (up to the $500 price point) can match the planar drivers of the HE-400 from a sound quality standpoint. I can understand if you prefer the sound signature of a specific IEM over the HE-400, but the bass quality (detail/texture/extension) of the HE-400 is extremely good. The HE-400's bass quality is unrivaled in the sub-$1000 full-sized open price category (except perhaps the LCD-2 pre-fazor). While the sound stage of the HE-400 is only average for a pair of open headphones, it still easily outperforms all the IEMs I've heard. 

 

There are sound quality attributes that the HE-400 does better than IEMs that you can easily appreciate provided that the HE-400 is properly amped. The fact that your comments about the HE-400 does not mention the other components in your chain or any specific sonic qualities where the HE-400 underperforms makes it hard for me to relate to your statements. The main faults people find with the HE-400 is its unique sound signature and comfort. However, even if you dislike its sound signature or cannot handle its weight, you should still be able to appreciate the HE-400's positive sound quality attributes. Many full-sized headphones require amplification, so comparing not-properly amped full-sized against IEMs out of the same portable source would be a disservice.

 

You mention how specific IEMs are a great value and have amazing sound quality, and I am not going to argue with that. If you prefer IEMs over full-sized headphones, that's cool too. I just personally had a very different experience and disagree with your stance especially regarding your comparative sound quality claims between full-sized and IEMs. I view statements that consist of having tried two headphones and claiming one to be better to simply be a subjective personal preference, and those comments do not really give any insight on relative sound quality performance. Statements about how a specific pair of headphones actually outperform another pair of headphones from a sound quality standpoint requires discussion of the source, components, and a comparison of specific sonic attributes.

 

There are a variety of pros and cons of every pair of headphones, so it is a bit silly to claim that a certain pair of headphones or a broad product category is the 'best.' Personal preference, comfort, and application plays the biggest role in deciding which pair of headphones are best suited for you. From my personal experience, full-sized headphones provide certain significant sonic advantages as well as comfort advantages over IEMs, so I prefer full-sized. I also have not personally heard an IEM (though have not broken the $500 price point for IEMs) that can actually technically outperform my full-sized headphone set-up.

post #5013 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

 

*Snip*

 

Have you listened to extensively or have ever owned the likes of the Sony MDR-EX1000, UM Miracle, JH13, or JH16?

 

Also, as I posted for Jay:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/440126/sennheiser-hd800-vs-jh-13-pro-battle-of-the-titans/15

 

That's multiple people there claiming to like the JH13 (non-FP version no less) better than the HD800. Now, we can all agree I'd think that the HD800 is better than the HE-400, correct? Just pointing this out.

 

Either way, don't really feel like getting into it. If you think IEM's don't sound as good as something like the HE-400 then that's fine.

post #5014 of 5020

Full sized headphones are without a doubt better than in ear monitors. They just are. IEMs are nice for portability and lack of sound leakage, but at any given price point, the full sized headphone will sound better than the IEM. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

post #5015 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by pachoo5 View Post
 

Full sized headphones are without a doubt better than in ear monitors. They just are. IEMs are nice for portability and lack of sound leakage, but at any given price point, the full sized headphone will sound better than the IEM. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

Forgot the "in my opinion" bit.

 

Find me a pair of fullsized cans that sound as good as the $40 Carbo Tenores. Better bass, sound stage, clarity. If they exist I sure as hell have never seen or heard them.

 

If you're going to make such blanket (and quite honestly false) statements then at least back it up with something. 

 

That's like me saying any Ferrari is better than any Lamborghini at any price range and that no one could argue otherwise.

post #5016 of 5020

Is an IMO really needed? We are all obviously posting opinions. How am I supposed to back up an opinion? We aren't talking about facts here. 

post #5017 of 5020

I think the problem arose from the sentence, "I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise."

 

There's always someone who can argue otherwise.

post #5018 of 5020
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

I think the problem arose from the sentence, "I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise."

 

There's always someone who can argue otherwise.

So true

post #5019 of 5020

lol this thread has gotten so off-topic.

 

i believe the original complaint was that this reviewer did not talk about IEMs in his battle of headphones. he actually does have a comparisons between IEMs for anyone interested.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/396277/a-comparison-of-all-my-iems-now-with-review-w3-sennheiser-ie8-ue10-pro-se530-er4p-triple-fi-sensaphonics-2xs-etc

 

here are some other discussion threads around here talking about or comparing flagship IEMs.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/485170/review-clash-of-the-titans-3d-jh16-pro-vs-jh13-pro

http://www.head-fi.org/t/531203/jh13-vs-jh16-after-at-least-a-year-which-is-the-better-one

http://www.head-fi.org/t/553576/best-custom-iem-period

 

in terms of "best," it really just comes down to application & what kind of sound signature appeals to you. there are obviously headphones that certain people love to death, but in the end, it is all subjective personal preference. throwing out a list of expensive flagship IEMs does not really prove anything more than a list of a bunch of expensive flagship full-sized headphones.

 

I think if anyone else wants to discuss the merits of IEMs, they should take the discussion to a more appropriate thread :)

post #5020 of 5020

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13)