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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 298

post #4456 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldfishX View Post

Not to mention 12,000 CD's. It's taken me forever to get to 2,000 and I pretty much have everything I want.

And all of this before the age of 30!  David is living every audiophile's dream!  Just amazing... 

post #4457 of 4940

And every wife/gf's nightmare. wink.gif

post #4458 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

And every wife/gf's nightmare. wink.gif

ha ha.

post #4459 of 4940

Looking for a suggestion. I have been using the Paradox headphones for some time now, and think they are a great, a very neutral phone, and given my living situation with my wife, being a closed back phone is a real asset. But I have been tempted to check out other headphone possibilities and after reading many, many reviews - including David's fabulous "Flagship" compilation - I thought the Audeze LCD-2 would be a good one to at least start and maybe end with, if I liked it. I 'borrowed' a pair from the Cable Company this past week. They do not have the vegan pads (those are not available for loan). I find that I really do love their presentation. They have a way of eliminating treble background artifacts present in many recordings, which is great, and their sonic signature is to my liking. I prefer a more subdued treble rather than looking for sparkle and 'air', although I don't find the LCD-2s lacking in the treble.....for my tastes. The Paradox might actually be more neutral, but, now I am not sure if I don't prefer the sonic signature of the Audeze for listening to the music that I like, which is mostly rock, blues, acoustic, a little jazz, vocals, most anything but not classical.  BUT, comfort wise, these headphones are a challenge. My wife tried them for about 10 minutes, appreciated how good they sound, but had this pained look on her face. I kept trying to adjust them, but all to no avail. The clamping on her skull, jawbone, etc, was all too much. I am leaving them to gently stretch out around some books which is what the fellows from Audeze recommended (they admitted this is not an uncommon complaint). After some stretching and adjusting, I can listen with them for a time, and after a while I can almost not notice them on my head, but when I take them off, it's a relief. Another blogger suggested wearing them backwards, but that doesn't really work so well. Vegan earpads might also help, but I don't really have the chance to try a set out. What I am wondering, and I would LOVE to hear from David on this, is what other headphone comes to mind with the attributes of the Audeze, but are more comfortable to wear? The HD650 keeps coming up, particularly with regard to the kind of music we listen to, but I wonder if I would be disappointed after hearing the LCD-2. Maybe that would be the case with any headphone, short of multi-thousand dollar phones, including ones that are no longer even available.

Thanks!

post #4460 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG52 View Post

Looking for a suggestion. I have been using the Paradox headphones for some time now, and think they are a great, a very neutral phone, and given my living situation with my wife, being a closed back phone is a real asset. But I have been tempted to check out other headphone possibilities and after reading many, many reviews - including David's fabulous "Flagship" compilation - I thought the Audeze LCD-2 would be a good one to at least start and maybe end with, if I liked it. I 'borrowed' a pair from the Cable Company this past week. They do not have the vegan pads (those are not available for loan). I find that I really do love their presentation. They have a way of eliminating treble background artifacts present in many recordings, which is great, and their sonic signature is to my liking. I prefer a more subdued treble rather than looking for sparkle and 'air', although I don't find the LCD-2s lacking in the treble.....for my tastes. The Paradox might actually be more neutral, but, now I am not sure if I don't prefer the sonic signature of the Audeze for listening to the music that I like, which is mostly rock, blues, acoustic, a little jazz, vocals, most anything but not classical.  BUT, comfort wise, these headphones are a challenge. My wife tried them for about 10 minutes, appreciated how good they sound, but had this pained look on her face. I kept trying to adjust them, but all to no avail. The clamping on her skull, jawbone, etc, was all too much. I am leaving them to gently stretch out around some books which is what the fellows from Audeze recommended (they admitted this is not an uncommon complaint). After some stretching and adjusting, I can listen with them for a time, and after a while I can almost not notice them on my head, but when I take them off, it's a relief. Another blogger suggested wearing them backwards, but that doesn't really work so well. Vegan earpads might also help, but I don't really have the chance to try a set out. What I am wondering, and I would LOVE to hear from David on this, is what other headphone comes to mind with the attributes of the Audeze, but are more comfortable to wear? The HD650 keeps coming up, particularly with regard to the kind of music we listen to, but I wonder if I would be disappointed after hearing the LCD-2. Maybe that would be the case with any headphone, short of multi-thousand dollar phones, including ones that are no longer even available.

Thanks!

I probably should mention  that for an amp, I am mainly using the wonderful TBI Millenia  which is a speaker amp, but along with a resistor box to make it a match for headphones. No background hiss at all, with the Paradox or Audeze phones. And I use an Oppo BDP105 into the Millenia, playing ripped files from an external hard drive. 

post #4461 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG52 View Post

I probably should mention  that for an amp, I am mainly using the wonderful TBI Millenia  which is a speaker amp, but along with a resistor box to make it a match for headphones. No background hiss at all, with the Paradox or Audeze phones. And I use an Oppo BDP105 into the Millenia, playing ripped files from an external hard drive. 

You'll be hard pressed to find another headphone with the sonic hallmarks of the LCD 2's. The HD650's are vaguely similar in that they're both considered "dark" - but in every other respect they're different. I doubt you'll find any headphone with as satisfying bass and slam. Some people might recommend the Mr Speaker Mad Dogs but in my experience they're an extremely diluted imitation of the LCD sound. They're far less lush and more dry sounding and obviously don't reproduce the same bass.

If I were you I'd try and get comfortable with the LCD's. I find that lying down on a memory foam pillow helps alleviate all the pressure on your neck.

Oh, and the HD650's put your head in a death grip. I'm sure after many hours of use they wear in but it feels like you're putting your head in a vice.

Just my 2 cents...
Edited by dryvadeum - 8/25/13 at 5:16am
post #4462 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryvadeum View Post


You'll be hard pressed to find another headphone with the sonic hallmarks of the LCD 2's. The HD650's are vaguely similar in that they're both considered "dark" - but in every other respect they're different. I doubt you'll find any headphone with as satisfying bass and slam. Some people might recommend the Mr Speaker Mad Dogs but in my experience they're an extremely diluted imitation of the LCD sound. They're far less lush and more dry sounding and obviously don't reproduce the same bass.

If I were you I'd try and get comfortable with the LCD's. I find that lying down on a memory foam pillow helps alleviate all the pressure on your neck.

Oh, and the HD650's put your head in a death grip. I'm sure after many hours of use they wear in but it feels like you're putting your head in a vice.

Just my 2 cents...

Thanks! That's what I have been thinking too. People have also compared the Paradox with the Audeze, but I'm not hearing that either. 

 

They're actually not a problem for my neck, although that is mentioned a lot when people talk about the heavier phones. It's more that for me, they have a forceful presence on the head that I am not used to. The Paradox may be unusual in how comfortable they fit. As regards my wife.....well, I think if I do purchase these (and if I did, apparently the more comfy vegan pads would be the way to go), I don't think they would be seeing any head time on her.

post #4463 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG52 View Post

I probably should mention  that for an amp, I am mainly using the wonderful TBI Millenia  which is a speaker amp, but along with a resistor box to make it a match for headphones. No background hiss at all, with the Paradox or Audeze phones. And I use an Oppo BDP105 into the Millenia, playing ripped files from an external hard drive. 

 

You have the same conundrum that so many others have with the lcd2 including myself. You're enamored with the sound signature but the comfort level ultimately becomes a deal breaker. For me, hp's are like shoes...if they just feel "okay" when you try them on, they will have your dogs barking in a hour or two much less eight hours. Some people will tell you that "you get used to them." Not me and they never did break in so to speak. 

 

For me, on a good amp the hd650 is much closer than described above to the lcd2. They are in fact quite similar with the exception of the sub bass weight and presence. The hd650 will have good mid bass whereas the lcd2 will not have the mid bass hump and will go deep and with nice texture. 


They are built about as differently as you could imagine and they simply don't have the same capabilities. Ultimately, the hd650 was and is a keeper for me. Given it's resemblance to the lcd2 and the incredible comfort level, it's one of the most frequently used and enjoyable hp's that I own or have ever owned.

 

Now, concerning the Maddog being a "diluted imitation of the lcd sound." I must laugh at this comment...haha. etysmile.gif IMO nothing could be further from the truth. There is really no design aspect of the MD that is directed to emulate the lcd. I have been on the test committee for Dan on multiple occasions while he was in process on designing the MD and AD and have had many lengthy exchanges with him about the design objectives. Never has  anything remotely related to "emulate the lcd sound" ever been mentioned. 

 

The Maddog and to a degree the Alpha Dog, are designed to be geared towards neutral or a flat response where you truly hear the recording being reproduced as the engineer intended. The goal is no coloration. Some will love this and some will hate it. I personally am a huge fan. I appreciate being able to hear the music in it's natural state. Some will find the bass somewhat light because they are used to a colored or exaggerated bass response from most hp's. I'd call the MD linear with regard to bass response. They do in fact go very deep and with good weight but only when the material calls for it. Throw on some Daft Punk and they will loosen your molars. But the MD will not "punch up" the bass on a good jazz recording which is something that I really appreciate. 

 

The MD and AD are not light but I do find them both considerably more comfortable that the lcd hp's. There is roughly a 100 gram difference in weight between the two but the fit and clamp also play a big role. The clamp is just right on the MD and there is no pressure around the ears or jaw for me. I find that I can wear it for a couple hours easy and there is no sense of relief when I take it off.

 

When I consider the price and fitment issues of the lcd series when compared to being able to own BOTH the hd650 and MD for LESS money and have a wonderful pair of complementary hp's, the decision then becomes an easy one. 

post #4464 of 4940

Although I have never heard the Mad Dog, LCD-2 but I heard HD650 and I read many reviews. I could say that if you need a best headphone from 3 of them and you wallet can afford then pick LCD-2. However, it is not simple like that. The bass of the Mad Dog has nearly quality as the LCD-2 but not over emphasis like when the recording call for the bass then it will come, and the mid of HD650 is very close to the mid the of LCD-2. So have enough money then LCD-2, want to save money but look for the bass then the Mad Dog, look for the mid then choose HD650. Not kidding. I read a review from a experienced audiophile, he compared the HD650, LCD-2, HD800 and Stax Lamda then Mad Lust Envy and found out their opinions share some similarities.

post #4465 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

You have the same conundrum that so many others have with the lcd2 including myself. You're enamored with the sound signature but the comfort level ultimately becomes a deal breaker. For me, hp's are like shoes...if they just feel "okay" when you try them on, they will have your dogs barking in a hour or two much less eight hours. Some people will tell you that "you get used to them." Not me and they never did break in so to speak. 

 

For me, on a good amp the hd650 is much closer than described above to the lcd2. They are in fact quite similar with the exception of the sub bass weight and presence. The hd650 will have good mid bass whereas the lcd2 will not have the mid bass hump and will go deep and with nice texture. 


They are built about as differently as you could imagine and they simply don't have the same capabilities. Ultimately, the hd650 was and is a keeper for me. Given it's resemblance to the lcd2 and the incredible comfort level, it's one of the most frequently used and enjoyable hp's that I own or have ever owned.

 

Now, concerning the Maddog being a "diluted imitation of the lcd sound." I must laugh at this comment...haha. etysmile.gif IMO nothing could be further from the truth. There is really no design aspect of the MD that is directed to emulate the lcd. I have been on the test committee for Dan on multiple occasions while he was in process on designing the MD and AD and have had many lengthy exchanges with him about the design objectives. Never has  anything remotely related to "emulate the lcd sound" ever been mentioned. 

 

The Maddog and to a degree the Alpha Dog, are designed to be geared towards neutral or a flat response where you truly hear the recording being reproduced as the engineer intended. The goal is no coloration. Some will love this and some will hate it. I personally am a huge fan. I appreciate being able to hear the music in it's natural state. Some will find the bass somewhat light because they are used to a colored or exaggerated bass response from most hp's. I'd call the MD linear with regard to bass response. They do in fact go very deep and with good weight but only when the material calls for it. Throw on some Daft Punk and they will loosen your molars. But the MD will not "punch up" the bass on a good jazz recording which is something that I really appreciate. 

 

The MD and AD are not light but I do find them both considerably more comfortable that the lcd hp's. There is roughly a 100 gram difference in weight between the two but the fit and clamp also play a big role. The clamp is just right on the MD and there is no pressure around the ears or jaw for me. I find that I can wear it for a couple hours easy and there is no sense of relief when I take it off.

 

When I consider the price and fitment issues of the lcd series when compared to being able to own BOTH the hd650 and MD for LESS money and have a wonderful pair of complementary hp's, the decision then becomes an easy one. 

My wife, in particular, likes your analogy with purchasing a pair of shoes. As she puts it, she's bought shoes in the past that she really liked, but they never quite fit......and eventually couldn't wear.

 

I went back to the Paradox, and although I still appreciate these phones, there is something about the Audeze....voices and instruments, etc., just sound more real. It's as though they do a somewhat better job of providing the illusion of real music, regardless of the question of which phone (between these or any others) is more 'accurate' to the recording. But again, it's a relief to have the Audeze off my head. My assumption is that the Alpha Dog and the Paradox will be more alike than not, being that both endeavor to be neutral and they are both dealing with whatever limitations are inherent with the Fostex driver. But, we shall see. 6 Moons is slated to do a review comparing the Alpha Dog and the LCD-2. 

 

popcorn.gif

post #4466 of 4940

How do you know that 6 moons is doing the review?

post #4467 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

How do you know that 6 moons is doing the review? 

It says so on their website!

post #4468 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

How do you know that 6 moons is doing the review?

"At $600 either way it's still only 60% of the Audeze LCD-2. Having one of those I'll be able to tell you how close this gets sonically."

 

Quote from Srajan on 6 Moons Audio in his preview of the Alpha Dog. 

post #4469 of 4940
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG52 View Post

"At $600 either way it's still only 60% of the Audeze LCD-2. Having one of those I'll be able to tell you how close this gets sonically."

Quote from Srajan on 6 Moons Audio in his preview of the Alpha Dog. 

My mate has the LCD's with vegan pads and headband and they are significantly more comfortable. Especially the headband - it has far more give and is much plusher. I think the bamboo is slightly lighter too.
post #4470 of 4940

I love my LCD-2's (Vegan, Bamboo, Blessed by the audio gods) but they are heavy. No complaints about anything else, clamp is fine and the Vegan pads/band are fairly comfy.

 

A few things I found helped:

  • wearing them a little lower than other headphones with the deeper side of the pads cushioning just behind my ear
  • when the verticle alignment is correct on my head I move them forward and then pivot the cups until they're applying even pressure
  • intricate pully system to overcome their mass.
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