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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 236

post #3526 of 4960

I had the AT W5000s and just plain didn't like them and sold them. 

The W3000ANVs are a different story, and really like them, especially the mids, vocals, bass and tonality in general. They are not an imaging champ,

but the tonality is so nice I just really like them for what they are. (That wing system is still weird to me though...)

post #3527 of 4960
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post

This is like discussing art, there is no right or wrong opinion, just different.

True, or there would likely be no hobby to be had! :)

post #3528 of 4960

I just got my LCD 2's today and I'm loving their sound. I think I have finally found the sound signature I have been seeking.

post #3529 of 4960

Owning both HD800 and W5000, I definitely think the HD800's is orders of magnitude better.

Everyone I give a listen to the HD800 is gobsmacked by the quality of sound.

Everyone I give a listen to the W500 geta s sour look on their face and asks for something better.

 

The only reason I keep it is because it is a flagship of AT.

 

You will notice in my sig that I don't own an Ultrasone.

I have listened to 3 different models including the ED10 and find them awful to the point of not owning one.

post #3530 of 4960

There are a few of the last entertaining posts missing....would like to know why.Censorship at it's best!wink_face.gif
 

post #3531 of 4960
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

Owning both HD800 and W5000, I definitely think the HD800's is orders of magnitude better.

Everyone I give a listen to the HD800 is gobsmacked by the quality of sound.

Everyone I give a listen to the W500 geta s sour look on their face and asks for something better.

 

The only reason I keep it is because it is a flagship of AT.

 

You will notice in my sig that I don't own an Ultrasone.

I have listened to 3 different models including the ED10 and find them awful to the point of not owning one.

 


Out of curiosity, what type of music do you listen to?

 

I love both headphones...I just found the W5000 to work better with string sounds.

It could just be the particular recordings I have.

 

I own HD800, W5000, AKG 701, sennheiser 595, and Beyers 990. The best for classical would be a toss up between the W5000 and HD800s. Another question: what are the "best" headphones for classical (i.e., piano concertos and symphonies?). I was contemplating getting the Audeze LCD2s but I heard they have recessed highs.

post #3532 of 4960
Sorry for my double post.
Edited by zzffnn - 4/18/13 at 10:59pm
post #3533 of 4960
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversurfer616 View Post

There are a few of the last entertaining posts missing....would like to know why.Censorship at it's best!wink_face.gif

 


I thought their debate remained civil and went down on its own. Maybe I was wrong. Such a Debate is not unexpected; We are comparing >50 headphones here, so different opinions will rise.
post #3534 of 4960
Quote:
Originally Posted by citadel View Post

 


Out of curiosity, what type of music do you listen to?

 

I love both headphones...I just found the W5000 to work better with string sounds.

It could just be the particular recordings I have.

 

I own HD800, W5000, AKG 701, sennheiser 595, and Beyers 990. The best for classical would be a toss up between the W5000 and HD800s. Another question: what are the "best" headphones for classical (i.e., piano concertos and symphonies?). I was contemplating getting the Audeze LCD2s but I heard they have recessed highs.

I did not find the LCD2 to have a too recessed treble. It is lower than on HD800 and not as detailed but it is not bad actually. If you like classical music on W5000, you may also like it on the LCD2, as cellos, violins and other similar instruments have a fuller body and more presence.

 

It depends what you like more in sound reproduction. While LCD2 has a better bass extension, fuller sounds, more present & natural voices, lusher mids, HD800 has mode details, better instrument separation and layering, better defined treble, better imaging, larger soundstage,etc


Edited by dan.gheorghe - 4/19/13 at 4:23am
post #3535 of 4960

The W5000 is extremely sensitive to amp pairing. I just received my AT-HA5000 and they really changed the sound of my W5000. Sounds miles better than a m-Stage. The amp is extremely transparent, but also warm and very silkily smooth!

 

I plugged my UERM in to listen for the sound signature of the amp. The amp imo is very colored. There is a big bass, but it is not aggressive. The entire amp is laid back except the upper midrange, where it is boosted. There is sibilance heard with the UERM, but none with W5000 or W3000anv. The treble is slightly toned down, but there is a very nice sparkle to the top.

 

I believe it is THE pair to go with the W5000, because both the amp and the headphone's tuning are so unique. The W5000 actually sounds better on the HA5000 than the W3000. The W3000 sounds darker and bassier on the HA5000 imo.

 

There was a thread in erji.net, the Chinese headphone forums, where a user had the TTVJ Millet and the HA5000. He commented that the Millet was a terrible pair with the W5000, but amazing with W3000. Many users of the AT-HA5000 said that it can only sound good with the W5000 and will distort the sound signature of anything else plugged into it because its coloring is so strong.

 

These are just my opinions.

post #3536 of 4960

Also, for classical music, I feel that both the W5k and W3k really doesn't do well in the large orchestral pieces. In this are the HD800's massive sound stage really excels. But, the ATHs perform much better in small ensembles. The sound isn't necessary "right", but they sound sweet, and some may call it overly sweet. The W5000 + HA5000 pair may make some users feel sick, because they sound extremely sweet, but I don't think many headphones can match their display of emotions from a piece of music. 

 

 

Add: Also Dave, nice review of the UERMs. The moment I tried the UERM demos, I knew I just had to get them. Even the demos sounded amazing. The real thing was just..wow.


Edited by Xymordos - 4/19/13 at 7:26am
post #3537 of 4960
Thread Starter 

My theory about the W5000 has long been that the drivers themselves may in fact be good, but that the overall earcup design is the problem.  I agree that amp synergy plays a role, but I also think that a headphone's basic character remains unchanged (and that no matter what amp I would ever use with the W5000, it would never go from what I perceive as terrible to absolutely amazing).  

 

If you take a really good pair of open back headphones and cup the entire headphone with your hands, you'll notice generally how weird the mids sound as a result.  Then suddenly, you'll remove your hands and the mids will bloom and everything will fall back into place.  Well, in my opinion, the W5000 literally sounds like a headphone that is being cupped by hands. There's a lacking of bass, an exceptionally strange midrange which is peakish and fatiguing.  It has the symptoms of a relatively good sounding driver which has been placed in the wrong housing.  I believe its possible the engineer which designed the driver, may not have been involved in the selection of the wood.  It's just a guess.  But when I hear the W5000, I literally think to myself every single time, that an audio gear company would not have released a model sounding like this unless there was a lack of communication in the chain.  For the two pairs of W5000 that I own, I cannot wrap my head around a company representing themselves with such a beautiful looking pair of headphones that sounds as though it were trying to hurt the ears.  

 

Now, of course preference is always subjective and personal.  No on can ever say with any definitive authority that Headphone X sounds better than Headphone Y.  And yet, I would be skeptical to believe that anyone involved of the design of the W5000 would be able to sit back and listen to my pair, in my system, and not feel that in comparison to nearly every other headphone that, something was markedly less transparent about its sound.  

post #3538 of 4960

I agree that it is muffled and doesn't sound as good if they are paired with a bad amp. However I must add that the coloring of the HA5000 is as extreme (some may disagree) as the W5000, that it can change the sound of a headphone dramatically, especially with the W5000. I have never heard a headphone that changed more, other than the W5000+HA5000 combo. Of course, the nasally tone is still present, the main sound signature doesn't change (that much), but the pairing of the combo works much much better than other amps. The issues of bass is resolved with the pairing because the HA5000 adds a lot of bass.Every aspect of the W5000 is improved. If you ever compare the W3000 and W5000 on the hA5000, you will realize that the W3000 sounds much worse than the W5000 on the same amp, because the amp was designed specifically for the W5000, and I believe Audio Technica intended the pair to be used together. I don't think any company will create a flagship that will be deemed worthless by its users. 

 

As I said in the previous post, another user in China tried the Millet with W5000 and thought they sounded awful, until he tried the HA5000 combo, which he thought sounded amazing, but had no idea why that W3000 sounds so good on the Millet, while the W5000 sounds so bad. Perhaps you should try the combo one day!

 

From a neutral stand point however, the combo is no where NEAR neutral. It is extremely colored in a airy, spiritual way, unlike the meaty coloring of the W3000. Luckily I have the UERM to show me where neutral is, after long listening periods with Audio Technica headphones!

 

I would also like to add that I use my W5000 to listen to female vocals only, because I find that is what they excel in. Classical honestly do not sound very good on them, since they have a very sweet sound signature (sweeter with the HA5000!)

post #3539 of 4960
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post

I agree that it is muffled and doesn't sound as good if they are paired with a bad amp. However I must add that the coloring of the HA5000 is as extreme (some may disagree) as the W5000, that it can change the sound of a headphone dramatically, especially with the W5000. I have never heard a headphone that changed more, other than the W5000+HA5000 combo. Of course, the nasally tone is still present, the main sound signature doesn't change (that much), but the pairing of the combo works much much better than other amps. The issues of bass is resolved with the pairing because the HA5000 adds a lot of bass.Every aspect of the W5000 is improved. If you ever compare the W3000 and W5000 on the hA5000, you will realize that the W3000 sounds much worse than the W5000 on the same amp, because the amp was designed specifically for the W5000, and I believe Audio Technica intended the pair to be used together. I don't think any company will create a flagship that will be deemed worthless by its users. 

 

As I said in the previous post, another user in China tried the Millet with W5000 and thought they sounded awful, until he tried the HA5000 combo, which he thought sounded amazing, but had no idea why that W3000 sounds so good on the Millet, while the W5000 sounds so bad. Perhaps you should try the combo one day!

 

From a neutral stand point however, the combo is no where NEAR neutral. It is extremely colored in a airy, spiritual way, unlike the meaty coloring of the W3000. Luckily I have the UERM to show me where neutral is, after long listening periods with Audio Technica headphones!

 

I would also like to add that I use my W5000 to listen to female vocals only, because I find that is what they excel in. Classical honestly do not sound very good on them, since they have a very sweet sound signature (sweeter with the HA5000!)

i understand and surely I may have never heard the W5000 at their best.  That's entirely possible.  It's also possible that there are different sounding W5000s.

 

The reason why I don't feel that any amp will alter my opinion significantly is that my issue with the W5000 has a lot to do with odd sounding resonances, which i believe is caused by the cups/driver interaction (and is not going to disappear despite the amp). That's what I think because it reminds me of the sound that a lot of great headphones make when you cup them.  It doesn't sound as though the driver was tuned to sound like this.  I bet if they ported the W5000 significantly, the headphone would sound much improved to my ears.

post #3540 of 4960

I did experience some different sounding W5000s. The ones I have are slightly on the cold side, where one pair I heard in a fair was completely warm. Really surprised me when I heard it. You are probably much more sensitive compared to me for those resonances. I thought that the W5000 sounded quite open (not compared to the HD800 of course), and I do understand that the upper mids are 'honky' in some tracks. I believe that the lower mids are actually recessed actually? I still think that the W5000 are suited only to a few genres of music, but for those genres, they sure sound better than my UERMs (if you ignore the IEM short comings).

 

Have you tried taking the cups off? I remember they are attached by screws underneath the leather pads. I would really like to know what they sound like without the cups!

 

At which frequencies do you hear the resonances? I want to try listening for them, I seemed to have missed the resonances during my listening periods.

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13)