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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 173

post #2581 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post

Yes, it is a killer combo! Definitely dynamic, lively and a ton of fun.  I ended up giving up on the HE400 because I found the highs too hash for me for long term listening.  Moving onto the HE500.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post


+1 for me too..the he400 was a bit to aggressive..i too upgraded to he500 because of that.

Ups! Everything looked great until now:)

Have you guys had HE-400 with the Schiit combo? What do you exactly mean by too aggressive? On what kind of music HE-400 appeared to be too harsh in highs?

 

I thought HE-500 is a headphone with different characteristics, not a simple upgrade of HE-400? What's better and what's worse for you in HE-500 in comparison to HE-400?

In other words, what are you missing in HE-500 that was present in HE-400 and what would you be missing in HE-400 that was present in HE-500?

post #2582 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by korzena View Post

 

Ups! Everything looked great until now:)

Have you guys had HE-400 with the Schiit combo? What do you exactly mean by too aggressive? On what kind of music HE-400 appeared to be too harsh in highs?

 

Some people just find the treble on the HE-400 to be too much, but the Lyr really helps tame the treble. I really recommend that you just give them a try, there are many different opinions people have on the HE-400. 

post #2583 of 4978

I knew that would come up when I posted.wink_face.gif

The HD700 are overall more balanced with a treble peak that is smooth, not edgy or fatiguing, especially with Amperex tubes. Highs took a long, long time to smooth out.  Bass quality and mids are crazy good. Can get edgy with the different tubes. I had the HE400 for for or 5 months before I got the HD700 and they never quite sat right with me.  Don't get me wrong, I do think they're impressive. They're my first recommendation to people looking for a headphone in that price range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Don't you find highs on HD700 too much as well then?


Edited by MickeyVee - 1/23/13 at 5:39pm
post #2584 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias of Sunhillow View Post

 

Thanks Peter! Indeed, the Stax rig has arrived. Waiting was tough. The SR-009 from Elusive Disc were delivered on Jan. 2, while I had to wait until Jan. 19 for the SRM-727ii to arrive (my fault, botched first payment to private seller). So I spent a tense couple of weeks staring at a beautiful set of 'stats with nothing to drive them. basshead.gif

 

Anyway, that's thankfully in the past. I've only had the Stax gear for a few days, so I'm holding off on any sort of grand pronouncements. My first impression, however, is that there's no room for both the SR-009 and HD800 in my house. They're too similar, with the SR-009 doing everything better (though at 4 times the price). The LCD-3's muscular, visceral presentation differentiates it from the Stax sound signature in a way that will make me keep them no matter what. Probably.

I can certainly understand that. The only thing the HD800s do better is still portray that awesome soundstage. But that said, the instrumental separation and pinpoint accuracy of the instruments in the soundstage on the SR-009s are a thing to behold. Throw in the fact that the SR-009s have the next best imaging to the HD800s, they're winners for sure. If I had to only keep 2 headphones, they'd be the SR-009s and LCD-3s for the reasons you provided. 

 

Looking forward to your listening impressions! Enjoy!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errymoose View Post

I'd say that... in fairness though, I didn't think the GS1K/PS1K are really upgrades from the RS1i in terms of they just do the same thing but better.  The sound is different enough that I can't see them that way, and it's the specific sound signature of the RS1i that I love for listening to rock that I can't get from the other two.  

 

I also prefer other completely different headphones for other music...  so in essence, I'll just say that the RS1i is indeed the best Grado, for what I use Grado's for.

I've owned every John Grado headphone put out (pretty much) except for the GS/PS1000s. I could never really get into them. For my $, the RS1i is the best current production Grado headphone (with a special shout out to the PS500/HF-2).

post #2585 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniping View Post

Some people just find the treble on the HE-400 to be too much, but the Lyr really helps tame the treble. I really recommend that you just give them a try, there are many different opinions people have on the HE-400. 
Its a much more in ur face kind of phone..thats why i said u maybe woud have to try one..maybe its the right one for u..people who go from he400 to he500 are more looking for a balanced phone..imho..and u already have one....as u say ur looking for a phone to complement ur phone..so..try it..u already have the right amp tongue.gif
post #2586 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

 

I think the HE-400 would give you what your looking for also.  I had the LCD-2 and then bought the HE-400 and the most obvious thing I noticed was how much more open sounding the HE-400 was with Velour pads.  The HE-400 is very fast with tight bass with nice slam.

 

Soundstage size of the phones I've heard I would rank them like this:

 

1.K701

 

2.HE-400 w/Velour

 

3. HD650

4. HE-500 w/Pleather

5. HE-400 w/Pleather

 

5. LCD-2 R2

6. SR80i

7. D2000

 

If I was going to buy one headphone to use with only "synthetic" electronic music it would be the HE-400 out of the ones I've had, they were a perfect match for that type of music to my ears.

I had both hd650 and LCD2. Also had the Grado RS2i (not the sr80). I found that lcd2s soundstage is much wider than the rs2is and significantly wider than hd650s.

On an amp that cannot drive the lcd2 well, you will get a more congested sound. 


Edited by dan.gheorghe - 1/24/13 at 10:09am
post #2587 of 4978

Nice job on the head-fi journey story.  It was a fun read.

post #2588 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias of Sunhillow View Post

 

Thanks Peter! Indeed, the Stax rig has arrived. Waiting was tough. The SR-009 from Elusive Disc were delivered on Jan. 2, while I had to wait until Jan. 19 for the SRM-727ii to arrive (my fault, botched first payment to private seller). So I spent a tense couple of weeks staring at a beautiful set of 'stats with nothing to drive them. basshead.gif

 

Anyway, that's thankfully in the past. I've only had the Stax gear for a few days, so I'm holding off on any sort of grand pronouncements. My first impression, however, is that there's no room for both the SR-009 and HD800 in my house. They're too similar, with the SR-009 doing everything better (though at 4 times the price). The LCD-3's muscular, visceral presentation differentiates it from the Stax sound signature in a way that will make me keep them no matter what. Probably.

Not so fast. I own 009s and HD800s also and although there is a frequency-response similarity, the Senns have different texture that is more dynamic-driver flavored, meaning a bit more substance, a bit less glassy and smooth (which is how

planars sound to me, even though the 009s have more detail somehow).  All this makes for 2 very different listening experiences, and IMHO variety is better and keeps the spice of life alive.

And the better the amp on the HD800s, the more these sound characteristics show up. So I would keep both if you can swing it.

I sold my HD800s for a while with the same line of thinking you had, really missed them and bought them back a short time later.

The HD800s  have less colorations than both the Staxes and Audezes (the LCD3s are more bass-centric and profound, and they do this well, but it is pervasive with all music and I would never call them neutral).

'just some friendly advice here.


Edited by rgs9200m - 1/24/13 at 9:47am
post #2589 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Not so fast. I own 009s and HD800s also and although there is a frequency-response similarity, the Senns have different texture that is more dynamic-driver flavored, meaning a bit more substance, a bit less glassy and smooth (which is how

planars sound to me, even though the 009s have more detail somehow).  All this makes for 2 very different listening experiences, and IMHO variety is better and keeps the spice of life alive.

And the better the amp on the HD800s, the more these sound characteristics show up. So I would keep both if you can swing it.

I sold my HD800s for a while with the same line of thinking you had, really missed them and bought them back a short time later.

The HD800s  have less colorations than both the Staxes and Audezes (the LCD3s are more bass-centric and profound, and they do this well, but it is pervasive with all music and I would never call them neutral).

'just some friendly advice here.

 

Thanks for this. As I said, I've just barely begun to form an opinion of the SR-009 and where it fits in my listening habits. Posts like this encourage me to take my time and not make hasty decisions (as I did with the first pair of HD800s I owned).

 

At the moment, my favorite amp for the HD800s is my EC Super 7. I believe it's the best amp I've heard with the Senns (including my departed WA2 and Mapletree Super II) and the potential of finding an even better synergy through tube rolling means I'm in no hurry to decide on what stays and what goes.
 

post #2590 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

Nice job on the head-fi journey story.  It was a fun read.

Thank you atsmile.gif. I am curios, what amp did you use with lcd2? I see you kept the hd650 but parted with audeze.

post #2591 of 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Not so fast. I own 009s and HD800s also and although there is a frequency-response similarity, the Senns have different texture that is more dynamic-driver flavored, meaning a bit more substance, a bit less glassy and smooth (which is how

planars sound to me, even though the 009s have more detail somehow).  All this makes for 2 very different listening experiences, and IMHO variety is better and keeps the spice of life alive.

 

Let's take this a step further, if you don't mind. Could you describe a listening experience in which you'd prefer the HD800 to the SR-009? When would you want a sound that has "a bit more substance, a bit less glassy and smooth" but not want the much more substance and much less glassy and smooth presence of the LCD-3?

 

For my tastes, I'm thinking that something like Nik Bärtsch's Ronin might fit the description... the precision and detail of European jazz with a distinct added muscularity. Must listen tonight.

post #2592 of 4978
Following up on my own follow up... I jammed some Nik Bärtsch's Ronin (Stoa) and some Bobo Stenson Trio (Serenity) tonight. Couple of my favorite listens at the moment. Much to my surprise, I enjoyed them both more on the LCD-3 than the SR-009 or HD800. The sort of chamber style of both records and the richness of the bottom end worked perfectly with the LCD-3.
Edited by Olias of Sunhillow - 1/24/13 at 9:27pm
post #2593 of 4978

Hi David!
I'm looking at the XBA-3 model at the moment, you mentioned you like the sound better than XBA-4... Wondering where the XBA-3 would slot into your rankings? Plus what value rating would you give it?

post #2594 of 4978

Here are some personal musical examples of Sennheiser HD800 strengths:

I'm a long term Beatles (and post Beatles) fan, and, say, with the early beatles and also Magical Mys. and Sgt. Ppr, there is some necessary grit, roughness, and (struggling for words here) a felt-like quality to

the vocals of John and Paul with the Sennheisers, and also that axe blade quality of John's voice, a directness, like they are singing hard and projecting.

 

With the planars like Audeze and Stax, the little details are there, maybe even more so (like breath intake and minute instrumental sounds), but the HD800s dig deeper into the texture.

 

I know this may sound contradictory, but that's what I hear and feel. That extra texture extends to the bass too in the Senns, where there is more sense of the real organic skin surface of a drum that is extremely satisfying and visceral

and hits that primitive part of my brain.

 

A similar affect happens with vocals from Stevie Nicks, Carole King, Joni Mitchell, and Carly Simon, all of whom have a touch (or more) of grit and harmonic vibration in their voices, which are like instruments on their own,

less of a modern-day American Idol stylized vocal sound, where a lot of the performers sound similar, like they are singing to imitate each other or trying to produce a more standardized sound, 

trying hard to hold notes forever, like an athlete, rather than just singing in the range of their natural talents.

 

The Senn HD800s capture these vocal personalities better, even picking up the struggling, yearning, and imperfections in the singing. Nothing is smoothed over or ignored.


Edited by rgs9200m - 1/25/13 at 7:36pm
post #2595 of 4978

This is exactly what I am looking for;this REALNESS in the timbre of the human voice in the context of a holographic/3D like soundstage.

My LCD2 Rev2 in combination with a WooA6 are quite good at this but I always think the HD800 may even be better???
 

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