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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 148

post #2206 of 4946

"Originally Posted by GenpattonJames View Post
 

Wonder why Audeze LCD-2 v 1 was used for the comparison when there is v 3 out now? I just purchased the updated version before Christmas and a friend has the first version. When we compared the two there were clear differences between them both in construction and sound."

 

because if you read the review, he states that he dislikes Audezes continued revision of the same product.


Edited by max pl - 1/6/13 at 9:57am
post #2207 of 4946

It's not that he doesn't like their continued revisions.  He states that if he had a chance to review the rev 2 of LCD-2 that he'd do it.  He just wants to own that specific headphone before he can think about review it.

post #2208 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenpattonJames View Post

Wonder why Audeze LCD-2 v 1 was used for the comparison when there is v 3 out now? I just purchased the updated version before Christmas and a friend has the first version. When we compared the two there were clear differences between them both in construction and sound.

 

theres only rev.2 , the "rev 3" is just the different wood with the improved connectors, however, sound quality + drivers remain the same as the rev. 2

 

i think he only had the rev.1 to listen to when he made the review

post #2209 of 4946

for the LCD2 he writes this as a weakness:

 

TOO MANY REVISIONS: In the time since I have acquired the Rev. 1, the LCD-2 has undergone numerous design changes. Some of these changes involved alterations to the sound, while others were implemented in order to improve the functionality and design of the headphone. Personally, it bothers me when there are several distinct variations made of a single product, especially in such a short period of time - less than three years.

 

this is what he says about the LCD2 in the LCD3 review:

 

However, I became a bit unenthused as the LCD-2 model started being reworked mid-production. I never did buy the LCD-2 rev. 2, not because I wasn't interested, but because it seemed that every time I checked, there was a new revision in the design. This revision process continues into recent times. It's something I'm not a huge fan of, but I do respect Audez'e for taking the time to troubleshoot known problems and improve their products.

post #2210 of 4946

My comments still stand, there are huge differences in tonal quality between v 1 and v 2. Many of his comments about it being a "Dark" headphone would be meaningless with the latest revision of the headphone. And I would rather have a manufacturer revise and update a headphone like Audeze rather than take the HifiMan approach and add a ton of new product.

Just my two thoughts as I was at the Headphone Bar in Vancouver and listened to both products and ultimately chose the Audeze. (Personal preference so not even going to get into that here). My point is if your updating your reviews, choose the latest product or revision thereof. There are a number of reviews out that go into detail about the differences between revision 1 and 2 such as here: http://www.headfonia.com/improved-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2/

Please don't misunderstand me, I appreciate all the effort the author has put into this review of many, many headphones. His comparisons and evaluations are well worth merit.

As an Audeze v 3 owner I would just wish he would audition the new version and update it to reflect that.

post #2211 of 4946
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenpattonJames View Post

Wonder why Audeze LCD-2 v 1 was used for the comparison when there is v 3 out now? I just purchased the updated version before Christmas and a friend has the first version. When we compared the two there were clear differences between them both in construction and sound.

It was used because it is the only one I have.

post #2212 of 4946

I don't know about the HE-400's, but I just got a pair of the Fostex TH900 (stock) and they're amazing. Almost electrostatic-like in terms of clarity but with a very warm tonal quality, and quite dynamic. Plus, they're extremely comfortable. I think they're my favorite pair of headphones right now.

post #2213 of 4946
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenpattonJames View Post

My comments still stand, there are huge differences in tonal quality between v 1 and v 2. Many of his comments about it being a "Dark" headphone would be meaningless with the latest revision of the headphone. And I would rather have a manufacturer revise and update a headphone like Audeze rather than take the HifiMan approach and add a ton of new product.

Just my two thoughts as I was at the Headphone Bar in Vancouver and listened to both products and ultimately chose the Audeze. (Personal preference so not even going to get into that here). My point is if your updating your reviews, choose the latest product or revision thereof. There are a number of reviews out that go into detail about the differences between revision 1 and 2 such as here: http://www.headfonia.com/improved-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2/

Please don't misunderstand me, I appreciate all the effort the author has put into this review of many, many headphones. His comparisons and evaluations are well worth merit.

As an Audeze v 3 owner I would just wish he would audition the new version and update it to reflect that.

i would really like to audition the rev 2/3 (and so on), but it hasn't happened just yet.  I have strict rules that i impose upon myself that I must own the headphone, not only for unbiased purposes, but also because if, in the future, I need to refer to it, I want to have it for accurate comparisons.  It hasn't been at the top of my list to get the newest revision of the LCD-2, partly because of my fear that on January 1st I buy the New Version A and then on March 1st there's a Newer Version B and then the time and expense put in to the review of New Version A is suddenly overshadowed by the fact that there is a Newer Version B.  At least on two occasions, I considered purchasing the latest revision of the LCD-2 and I waited a few weeks and found that there was a newer version, or a production issue, or cosmetic change, or a storage case change.  After a while, I became less eager to invest more time and money into the particular headphone. And I have confirmed with technicians at Audez'e that the differences between all the revisions are minute, both structurally and sonically.  Obviously, not everyone would agree with that assessment, and that is why I am very specific about which version I own.  I would like to explore the newest revision of the LCD-2, but it probably won't be the next thing I add.

post #2214 of 4946

The K702 Anniversary Edition seems like it would be a cool add.  As it currently stands, it's basically an AKG flagship.  Plus it has a very limited run, so it's best to get it sooner than later!

post #2215 of 4946
David, i understand you LCD observations.
It was an additional reason for me not to buy a LCD.
Buying such an expensive can and hearing about a new (better) revision some weeks later is wasting money!
post #2216 of 4946

I appreciate your review and your comments. However one thing bothers me. You seem to be very obtuse regarding Audeze. I am neither a fan boy of them nor wish to promote them. But after reading for the second or third time in your comments that your tired of the revisions I seem to be thrust into the role of defending them. And this is not because I own them. I did a bit of research on both Audeze and other brands and came to the conclusion that Audeze spent a lot of hard work upgrading and fixing problems with what was already a very fine headphone. They introduced revision 2 in September of 2011, and sent a notice to the audiophile community apologizing for some of the issues regarding wood failures in a very small minority of their headphones in March of last year. They also sent an apology to their dealer network as they were running out of wood and were behind in production on some of the LCD-2's. They then exchanged any defective headphones at no cost to the consumer and modified the design so this would not happen. They honour a pretty darn good three year warranty on the headphones which I think is one of the best, if not the best in the industry. Roughly in September of last year the only thing that was changed was the position of the connectors in v3. Compare this to some other companies that design and sell headphones and I would suggest that Audeze over all customer support has been exemplary. I wonder how the owners of the HE-5LE or the HE-6 HifiMan headphones felt when the HE-500 came out for much less and much better sound? And this was within a very short time period after the introduction of the HE-5LE. I tend to prefer Audeze gentle refinement of a product to HifiMan's approach of rapid fire machine gun release of products. That's not to say that one or the other is better, it's my personal preference. I am not even going to go into which sounds better as that is a matter for system synergy and personal taste.

It sounds like (No pun intended) that you have had a bad taste in your mouth concerning the LCD-2 v 1 that you have. Why not email Audeze and see what they could do for you? I am sure they might be able to upgrade your headphones or provide you with something that might cause you to change your thinking. As to your comments about consulting with Audeze and them telling you there are minute differences in the revisions sonically. I find that very difficult to understand. There are at least three reviews of the version 2 LCD2 that completely disagrees with your statement. One of them I posted the link to in an early reply. You would be right in saying that structurally they are similar. But there is an overwhelming body of evidence on the web to suggest that sonically they are definitely different. In the meantime your review in my opinion does not hold weight for any Audeze LCD-2 owner as it simply does this: It reviews a headphone that has been upgraded significantly well over a year ago. Just my two cents. I still appreciate the review.
 


Edited by GenpattonJames - 1/6/13 at 12:35pm
post #2217 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenpattonJames View Post

I appreciate your review and your comments. However one thing bothers me. You seem to be very obtuse regarding Audeze. I am neither a fan boy of them nor wish to promote them. But after reading for the second or third time in your comments that your tired of the revisions I seem to be thrust into the role of defending them. And this is not because I own them. I did a bit of research on both Audeze and other brands and came to the conclusion that Audeze spent a lot of hard work upgrading and fixing problems with what was already a very fine headphone. They introduced revision 2 in March of last year, and sent a notice to the audiophile community apologizing for some of the issues regarding wood failures in a very small minority of their headphones. The also sent an apology to their dealer network as they were running out of wood and were behind in production on some of the LCD-2's. They then exchanged any defective headphones at no cost to the consumer and modified the design so this would not happen. They honour a pretty darn good three year warranty on the headphones which I think is one of the best, if not the best in the industry. Roughly in September of last year the only thing that was changed was the position of the connectors in v3. Compare this to some other companies that design and sell headphones and I would suggest that Audeze over all customer support has been exemplary. I wonder how the owners of the HE-5LE or the HE-6 HifiMan headphones felt when the HE-500 came out for much less and much better sound? I tend to prefer Audeze gentle refinement of a product to HifiMan's approach of rapid fire machine gun release of products. That's not to say that one or the other is better, it's my personal preference. I am not even going to go into which sounds better as that is a matter for system synergy and personal taste.

It sounds like (No pun intended) that you have had a bad taste in your mouth concerning the LCD-2 v 1 that you have. Why not email Audeze and see what they could do for you? I am sure they might be able to upgrade your headphones or provide you with something that might cause you to change your thinking. As to your comments about consulting with Audeze and them telling you there are minute differences in the revisions sonically. I find that very difficult to understand. There are at least three reviews of the version 2 LCD2 that completely disagrees with your statement. One of them I posted the URL too in an early reply. You would be right in saying that structurally they are similar. But there is an overwhelming body of evidence on the web to suggest that sonically they are definitely different. In the meantime your review in my opinion does not hold weight for any Audeze LCD-2 owner as it simply does this: It reviews a headphone that has been upgraded significantly almost a year ago. Just my two cents. I still appreciate the review.
 

 

Sure Audeze like most other companies are good-willed and only mean to better their products, but you have to take perspective of the consumers, especially early adopters of early LCD2. There were huge hassles regarding early driver inconsistency issues accompanied by a number of revisions, where some had to go through multiple headphone replacement processes. That is never fun, and it'd easy to drive some into bitterness as later buyers don't have to go through any of that and actually might even spend less.

 

As for your comment about HE500 and HE5LE, no. Many argue that HE5LE is better-sounding, just harder to drive right, that it surpasses HE500 in performance when driven correctly. Moreso with HE6. HE500 was produced so that it had no special amp requirements and sounded nice (but not exceedingly extraordinary, unlike e.g. HE6) out of most setups.


Edited by jerg - 1/6/13 at 12:34pm
post #2218 of 4946
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenpattonJames View Post

I appreciate your review and your comments. However one thing bothers me. You seem to be very obtuse regarding Audeze. I am neither a fan boy of them nor wish to promote them. But after reading for the second or third time in your comments that your tired of the revisions I seem to be thrust into the role of defending them. And this is not because I own them. I did a bit of research on both Audeze and other brands and came to the conclusion that Audeze spent a lot of hard work upgrading and fixing problems with what was already a very fine headphone. They introduced revision 2 in September of 2011, and sent a notice to the audiophile community apologizing for some of the issues regarding wood failures in a very small minority of their headphones in March of last year. They also sent an apology to their dealer network as they were running out of wood and were behind in production on some of the LCD-2's. They then exchanged any defective headphones at no cost to the consumer and modified the design so this would not happen. They honour a pretty darn good three year warranty on the headphones which I think is one of the best, if not the best in the industry. Roughly in September of last year the only thing that was changed was the position of the connectors in v3. Compare this to some other companies that design and sell headphones and I would suggest that Audeze over all customer support has been exemplary. I wonder how the owners of the HE-5LE or the HE-6 HifiMan headphones felt when the HE-500 came out for much less and much better sound? I tend to prefer Audeze gentle refinement of a product to HifiMan's approach of rapid fire machine gun release of products. That's not to say that one or the other is better, it's my personal preference. I am not even going to go into which sounds better as that is a matter for system synergy and personal taste.

It sounds like (No pun intended) that you have had a bad taste in your mouth concerning the LCD-2 v 1 that you have. Why not email Audeze and see what they could do for you? I am sure they might be able to upgrade your headphones or provide you with something that might cause you to change your thinking. As to your comments about consulting with Audeze and them telling you there are minute differences in the revisions sonically. I find that very difficult to understand. There are at least three reviews of the version 2 LCD2 that completely disagrees with your statement. One of them I posted the link to in an early reply. You would be right in saying that structurally they are similar. But there is an overwhelming body of evidence on the web to suggest that sonically they are definitely different. In the meantime your review in my opinion does not hold weight for any Audeze LCD-2 owner as it simply does this: It reviews a headphone that has been upgraded significantly almost a year ago. Just my two cents. I still appreciate the review.
 

I don't have a bad taste in my mouth.  If I did, I doubt I would able to hold their headphones in high regard.  I'm merely commenting on what I see as an issue.  I criticize a headphone for whatever it is that I find problematic.  I personally feel that having several revisions of a product over a relatively short span of time is worth criticism.  It doesn't devalue the overall integrity of the product.  Assuming that the LCD-2 rev. 2/3 is better than the LCD-2 rev. 1, its certainly a great headphone, as is the rev. 1.  And I attempt to make that clear, and it is ranked very high when you think about how many great headphones there are.

post #2219 of 4946

@Jerg

 

Spot on man..

 

@GenpattonJames

 

We welcome your review on the LCD-2.2  and yes, to each is own.

post #2220 of 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

I don't have a bad taste in my mouth.  If I did, I doubt I would able to hold their headphones in high regard.  I'm merely commenting on what I see as an issue.  I criticize a headphone for whatever it is that I find problematic.  I personally feel that having several revisions of a product over a relatively short span of time is worth criticism.  It doesn't devalue the overall integrity of the product.  Assuming that the LCD-2 rev. 2/3 is better than the LCD-2 rev. 1, its certainly a great headphone, as is the rev. 1.  And I attempt to make that clear, and it is ranked very high when you think about how many great headphones there are.

 

Exactly! I dont see what is wrong with the review... You extensively praised the LCD-2s and in the end (to my disappointment cool.gif Well I dove for the HE-6 in the end wink_face.gif) ended above the HE-500 which you mentioned...

I think they were praised accordingly to other HPs and I dont really see the injustice like you do... 

I firmly believe this is one of the most objectively written reviews out there... It tops off almost anything and considering the number of HPs (and still growing) its a masterpiece of its own "behemoth" category :D


Edited by conquerator2 - 1/6/13 at 1:14pm
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