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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 147

post #2191 of 4961

I think the HE500 is mighty comfortable,  more so than the 650, which is too compressive on my head. 

The 500 compresses somewhat, but not nearly as much as the 650, and not uncomfortably so.

And I use the pleather pads, and the alternative velour pads are supposed to be even more comfy and lighter.

If you want light though, the TH900 is for you if you have the $.


Edited by rgs9200m - 1/5/13 at 5:57pm
post #2192 of 4961
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post


I explained my stance in a subsequent post. I never stated they sounded the same. You're inferring that.

Apologies if I mis-characterized or misinterpreted your implications. I was dead wrong to imply that w/o fully reading your comments sir.

 

It's just that personally, (and I hope I'm not taking this out of context, and I did look over your earlier posts, but I may have missed something), I guess I do disagree somewhat.

You said that the 800s are a "progression" from the 650s, and to my ears they seem go in a completely different direction, 

meaning very revealing in the high frequencies, as opposed to the 650s which seem, not exactly stuffy, but with a thicker, somewhat foggier signature (not as much as the 600s).

So in that sense, as you said, the 800 does indeed "improve on the 650's deficiencies."

 

I actually could believe that Audezes were based on the 600/650s. Not knowing better, I would believe the LCD2 was the next generation HD650.

Thanks olor!

 

I'm not tethered to a particular sound signature. For me, the fundamental test of a headphone is the extent to which I'm drawn into the music (i.e. no obnoxious deficiencies detracting from the experience). The HD800 is a significant improvement over the HD650 in all aspects. It goes without saying that it takes a lot of work, and investment (as you'd know), to realise the HD800's potential. My HD800 rig is still quite modest when compared to others, but the presentation I now hear is passing that fundamental test. I don't even take the different voicing into account. I still love the HD650, but the HD800 is now my go to, and that is why, to me, it is the natural next step. The LCD-2 failed that test, though it is still an impressive headphone in some aspects.

 

I know I'm probably a lone voice here, but a lot of people seek guidance from the experience of others. The majority will recommend the next upgrade based purely on the existing preference of the person asking (nothing wrong with that). The issue is that the recommendation often includes a warning to exclude headphones voiced differently. This is how I made the mistake of expecting too much from the LCD-2 and my subsequent disappointment with it. I then went against common Head-Fi wisdom, took a gamble on the HD800 and found exactly what I was looking for.

 

There's an overemphasis here on aligning yourself to a particular camp. You can find what you're after by straying off the path, but you can also appreciate where you are without disregarding where you've come from.


Edited by olor1n - 1/5/13 at 6:40pm
post #2193 of 4961

lol since when is around 3k spent on the dac, amp and aftermarket cable modest? :P

post #2194 of 4961
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

lol since when is around 3k spent on the dac, amp and aftermarket cable modest? :P

 

HD800. It's still stated by some that a minimal level of investment is required to even glimpse its potential. I suspect those people fail to realise how far things have progressed in terms of components in recent times.


Edited by olor1n - 1/5/13 at 6:45pm
post #2195 of 4961
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

lol since when is around 3k spent on the dac, amp and aftermarket cable modest? :P

 

since theres much better and more expensive setups out there, with 3k being right around average for an hd 800 setup.

 

for me, i use the WA2 (1090) + upgraded tubes (250) + cable (120), that + shipping was 1500 for the amp alone, my dac was 500 and with the cable for that + my usb/spdif converter and usb/spdif cables, and interconnects, add 500 to that, the hd 800 cable for me was 200. so $2800 for my hd 800 setup, not including the headphones! 

 

it adds up really fast wink.gif...., had i chosen a fancier hd 800 cable and a better dac (1k+ range)  or amp (2k+ range), the price just goes way up from there.


Edited by Dubstep Girl - 1/5/13 at 6:48pm
post #2196 of 4961

Oh I understand the cost but I find it amusing that 3k is still considered that for a rig outside of Stax. Of course that may also mean I have saved around 1k with my HD800 rig :)

 

olor1n, you may be right about the advancement of gear being better than similarly priced items of the past. I find that my rig isn't the best for the HD800 in terms of getting the maximum potential but it goes pretty far from what I've auditioned at least.

post #2197 of 4961

So we have rigs just for the HD800.  Don't forget rigs for the HE-6s as well.  Those rigs are probably not good for low impedance headphones like Denons and Audio Technicas so you get a rig for those.  

 

Man this hobby is crazy...

post #2198 of 4961

Off topic here, but whatever... 

check out the set of videos new on youtube from The Midnight Special 1974 by YTVideos2012.

(Especially the Maria Muldaur one... awesome imho). 

[Titles start with "TMS 1974"]

post #2199 of 4961
Quote:
Originally Posted by szoze View Post

This thread is a respectful laboring achievement but unfortunately nothing more than that. I as many other people here don't agree about many conclusions. I also have to point out that a test/review of this kind should be administered using a panel with listeners (at least 10 people) in order for it to be anywhere near objective. Waste of time, IMHO. Please, don't make a PDF.

Ouch! All these opinions are subjective. 10 or 100 people wouldn't make any difference. If anything it would make it more confusing to try and find common opinions. Blind testing wouldn't work with headphonss either. Once you start putting too much science in there it spoils it. Our hobby is about fun not about trying to sterilise sound and polarise opinion.
I think David has integrity in his thoughts. He just doesn't have the time and space to be deluged by 9 people to live in his house for 6 months.
I would be happy to take up residence in it smily_headphones1.gif:-)
post #2200 of 4961
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeanidea View Post


Ouch! All these opinions are subjective. 10 or 100 people wouldn't make any difference. If anything it would make it more confusing to try and find common opinions. Blind testing wouldn't work with headphonss either. Once you start putting too much science in there it spoils it. Our hobby is about fun not about trying to sterilise sound and polarise opinion.
I think David has integrity in his thoughts. He just doesn't have the time and space to be deluged by 9 people to live in his house for 6 months.
I would be happy to take up residence in it smily_headphones1.gif:-)

Thanks!! Hahaha

post #2201 of 4961
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post


Well, I bolded that because I was responding to the assumption that I utilize EQ to fix headphone weaknesses. If I did this, the comparisons I've made would be almost meaningless
 

 

 

Yes, indeed, and that was my point too, in I hope a humorous way. All comparisons are meaningless when made with EQ, something I think we all need to keep in mind. Of course it's okay to use EQ, but recommending a phone on the basis of what it sounds like after extensive EQing just leads to confusion and probably disappointment.

post #2202 of 4961
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

HD800. It's still stated by some that a minimal level of investment is required to even glimpse its potential. I suspect those people fail to realise how far things have progressed in terms of components in recent times.

And you save even more if you buy second hand. I got my m2tech young for half the retail price. My fidelity head amp was almost half price and the usb cale was £10 the rca leads £40. I got a slightly seconds hd800 for £250 off.
I can hear the differences between the lcd2's and the hd800's really clearly. Neither should be dismissed as being better or worse. David's description of both was so spot on I just agree with him on that 100 %.
post #2203 of 4961
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post


Well, I bolded that because I was responding to the assumption that I utilize EQ to fix headphone weaknesses. If I did this, the comparisons I've made would be almost meaningless
 

 

 

Yes, indeed, and that was my point too, in I hope a humorous way. All comparisons are meaningless when made with EQ, something I think we all need to keep in mind. Of course it's okay to use EQ, but recommending a phone on the basis of what it sounds like after extensive EQing just leads to confusion and probably disappointment.

Sorry if peeps thought I was assuming that DavidMahler was using EQ to test headphones.  Not my intention.  Since I don't think most mid-fi headphones have much sub-bass I thought perhaps he was seeing if he could get sub-bass out of them by EQing just as an experiment.

post #2204 of 4961

Wonder why Audeze LCD-2 v 1 was used for the comparison when there is v 3 out now? I just purchased the updated version before Christmas and a friend has the first version. When we compared the two there were clear differences between them both in construction and sound.

post #2205 of 4961
Quote:
Originally Posted by sohnx View Post

It's reviews like this that make me roll my eyes at "hi-fi". Yeah it was interesting, it's a nice reference, a sounding board for further impressions. It's also completely ludicrous from the get go. The associated equipment is laughable. The MSB tech stuff is a joke IMO. If a femto second is going to make a difference in the functioning of your DAC I hope you're listening inside a shielded bunker buried a hundred feet underground. Because you've got bigger problems than a femto second all around you. It may well be pretty good, but it's that price range where someone can claim anything they want about it because nobody else will ever own it.

 

A major issue is the lack of a caveat of what amps were used for each headphone. This makes many of these impressions useless to me since this is a pretty big part of how one might experience any given headphone.

 

There were a few contrarian opinions in there that I thought were way off based on other reviews. Especially the comment that the T1 lacks impact. I've generally read that the HD800 lacks impact compared to the T1, not the other way around...

 

I do have T1's schedule to arrive this Tuesday so I'll hear their flat lifeless sound for myself soon enough. And I'm ordering HD800's after I can form an impression of the T1, so I'll hear how much they overpower the T1's as well... very_evil_smiley.gif

 

This review does serve to confirm my suspicion that the HD800's must have some real nice margins for retailers! :D:D:D

you should do your own research and show us your own equipment before you talk **** about others, especially about a credible reviewer who took the time to compare 57 headphones as well as make this extremely useful comparison, nowadays its quite uncommon to see material this good on head-fi.

 

impact is not the same as bass. and the T1 do lack impact due to the really fast drivers.

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13)