different strokes for different folks for different music. All that matters is what you like! Enjoy the music!
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Battle Of The Flagships (58 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: AUDEZ'E LCD-2 Revision 2 (6/4/13) - Page 87post #1291 of 492111/25/12 at 9:09am
Gear mentioned in this thread:post #1292 of 492111/25/12 at 9:15amQuote:
He said they were a top performer on the MEASUREMENT front. What is 'relevant evidence' in your case? Is it measurements? Hopefully not. Honestly this is getting to the point that's well beyond comical. You've already sorta disowned the LCD-3 multiple times just because its FR and square wave graphs weren't as pretty as the LCD-2.post #1295 of 492111/25/12 at 9:27am
Didn't you read my post? The majority of amps will measure with the exact same dead flat frequency response, and distortion or noise floor numbers far below the audible threshold, yet they all sound different. Unless the measurements show something EXTREMELY off, they are not what you should be looking for from an amp.
Why would you not be satisfied with the LCD-3? It's well regarded as a complete step up from LCD-2. Honestly, your obsession with measurements is ridiculous. I like a good looking set of measurements, but this is comical.post #1296 of 492111/25/12 at 9:35ampost #1297 of 492111/25/12 at 9:38amQuote:
You know there's more to having a conversation that talking and waiting to talk. (there's a listening part somewhere in there).
Again, read Currawong's link about measurements (and my article on innerfidelity). Where measuring the EXACT same pair of headphones yielded different measurements.
The LCD-2s and LCD-3s measure about the same with a slight edge to the LCD-3s (deeper bass and better %THD). The older LCD-3 plots were from pre-RMA pairs and ARE NOT VALID!!!!! But when you actually PUT THEM ON YOUR HEAD, the differences are quite stark in favour of the LCD-3s. Of course you can't say much more as you've NEVER heard them.post #1299 of 492111/25/12 at 9:42amQuote:Originally Posted by MHOE
Didn't you read my posts about what I require from an amp and DAC? You are free to find it... If an amp/DAC do not offer it, it's not good enough for me.
I would not be satisfied with LCD-3 because they measure worse, are less neutral than LCD-2 rev2 and cost 2x more... I want from 2000USD to be twice better in all my requirements, at least. I guess only Stax SR009 would do it for me for 2000 - 3000USD. But certainly not for the price of 10000+USD.
Please stop derailing this thread.post #1301 of 492111/25/12 at 9:55am
For the LAST TIME:
LCD-2 and LCD-3:
1.) Bass goes deeper on the LCD-3s and doesn't drop off until 40Hzish, while on the LCD-2 Rev. 2s its 60Hz.
2.) The upper mids roll off faster on the LCD-2s (not a good thing as female vocals can sound withdrawn and too laid back). On the LCD-2s, the roll off starts at 1kHz and on the LCD-3s its closer to 2kHz.
3.) Treble is a bit too subdued on the LCD-2s when compared to the LCD-3s.
The 30kHz square wave responses seem within the tolerances of the measuring devices, so let's call them about the same. But on the 300Hz graph, you will see that the first spike on the LCD-3s is larger than on the LCD-2s. This is a good thing. Its what likely gives the LCD-3s the better ability to image. When I was talking to Tyll, he thought that was why the LCD-2s imaged so poorly. That equal double spike likely caused one to hear the same thing twice and thus collapse the sound stage.
Now % THD, the difference in %THD between 90 and 100dB on the LCD-3s shows that the drivers are better responding to the inputs while on the LCD-2s, they're more jumbled together (not as good as the LCD-3s, though still very good).
Now even with everything I mentioned above, there is the limitations of the measurement systems. I STRONGLY suggest you read both of these BEFORE commenting further to help open your horizons on the subject:
Now, how does one quantify, imaging, transparency, PRaT, detail retrieval, etc....? These are all very valuable pieces of information that you're totally missing!
So, please just move on. Yes, your LCD-2 r.2s are fantastic headphones, but not the last word in terms of being the best there out there. Nor is your opinion or ability to interpret these graphs the last word. So please start your own thread (as the Moderator asked you to) and stop ruining this brilliant thread.
Edited by MacedonianHero - 11/25/12 at 9:56ampost #1302 of 492111/25/12 at 9:57amQuote:
Yes they are and it is quantifiable...just read my post above.
Edited by MacedonianHero - 11/25/12 at 9:58ampost #1304 of 492111/25/12 at 10:11amQuote:Originally Posted by MHOE
All I can say about your view on the graphs is - I do see them in a completely different way.
Everything you've said, from your evaluation of bass FR, treble, %THD+noise and pretty everything is a nonsense to me and it does not matter whether I look at it with my glasses on or off, or change resolution of my screen.
I will let anyone to create his/her own opinion then...
If anyone is interested - there is no single measurement where LCD-3 are better from those graphs above. Feel free to PM me for more info...
Imagine that...someone actually describes the measurements and why A is better than B and all you have to say is "pretty everything is a nonsense to me and it does not matter whether I look at it with my glasses on or off, or change resolution of my screen."
God forbid that you actually "read the graphs" that clearly show my points mentioned previously.
You win...I can't argue with that logic.
Edited by MacedonianHero - 11/25/12 at 10:14ampost #1305 of 492111/25/12 at 10:12am
Once again, MHOE, I think you need to start your own thread, in which you review headphones based solely on their measurements--including headphones you have never heard. And, once again, this isn't the thread to do it in.
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