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Battle Of The Flagships (57 Headphones Compared) UPDATE: Ultimate Ears UERM added (4/14/13) - Page 145

post #2161 of 3794
1/4/13 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I was under the impression the HD800 was very neutral, and depending on your source/amp possibly leaning towards brightness by a smidge? I'd love to hear the HD800 some day. I find the HD650 very well balanced, but with a laid back treble, and definitely on the warm side of neutral. The K702 Annie fixes that laid back treble on the HD650, but still having a similar tonality.
The K702 Annie is DEFINITELY leaning towards being on the warm side, but my assumption is that the frequency response based on what I'm hearing myself is that it will be very linear, moreso than the non-Annie K701/702/Q701.
If I had to rate bass on quantity I'd say:
HE-400 - 8.5
HD650 - 8
K702 Annie - 8
Q701 - 7.3
Old K701 - 6.8
Oh yes, the K7602 Annie sounds good even off my phone alone. Not something I thought I'd ever say. I mean, they sound glorious off my A-GD SA-31, but they are definitely more enjoyable than the K/Q701s off lesser power.
The mids are even more forward than the HE-400.


These are very precise rankings, is it on a scale of 1 to 10, why fractional numbers?

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post #2162 of 3794
1/4/13 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

A natural progression implies that it needs to sound pretty similar to what you're upgrading from.  Otherwise it's not so natural.  This is a hobby where sound signature alone can mean the difference between very enjoyable or completely unlistenable.  Queue the LCD-2 vs HD800 debates, the Sennheiser vs Grado debates etc-- and of course, the HD650 vs 800 debates.

 

To elaborate. I love the HD650. Its well documented deficiencies are overstated on these forums IMO, but you cannot deny personal preference.

 

If you enjoy all aspects of the HD650's presentation but yearn for more extension, smoothness and clarity in the upper registers, the HD800 provides that. Less mid-bass smear and more sub-bass definition? Check. Less left/right accentuated, 3 blob soundstage and a more spacious, circular stage? Yep. Better definition of elements and more precise imaging? Check. Same musical engagement when ancillary components are in harmony? Damn straight.

 

Natural progression? Yep. Looking for something more similar is the very definition of side-grade.


Edited by olor1n - 1/4/13 at 6:59pm
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post #2163 of 3794
1/4/13 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post

+1 

having owned hd 650s + these headphones at one time or another, i agree 100% with this bass quantity comparison. 


btw how does sub-bass quality and bass decay compare on k702 annie vs. hd 650? the hd 650s have very clean deep sub-bass that is very subwoofer-like imo without becoming bloated or exaggerated, though it tends to be on the one-note side at times.

I find them similar in their bass, but from memory, I'd say the K702 Annie has more sub bass. I honestly didn't expect it. It has good bass all around. Quite a step up from the Q701. I honestly tag it as a departure from the AKG sound I was accustomed to. Its so musical, which isn't how I'd refer the other Ks and Q as being.
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post #2164 of 3794
1/4/13 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

Natural progression? Yep. Looking for something more similar is the very definition of side-grade.

 

Very similar in sound-signature alone.  Not similar in everything, of course that would be a side-grade.

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post #2165 of 3794
1/4/13 at 8:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyash View Post

not sure where to post random impressions but here are mine

just listened to a bunch of headphones today and my favourite so far have to be the hifiman he-6 and the he500

i have tried some flagships/ high end heaphones including senn hd800, beyer t90, ultrasone signaure pro, senn hd650 and the hifiman beats them all imo

agreeing with david's review of the he-6 and he500, the mids, speed, imaging, and especially the bass impressed me, the bass quantity amount was just right for me, very adaptable for many genres, and very natural sounding with the slight hint of warmth

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about the HE500 sound. They are very special and are growing on me and I crave their sound when I head to my system.

And yes, what fuzzy says in that last sentence is precisely what I hear from the HE500s.

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post #2166 of 3794
1/4/13 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about the HE500 sound. They are very special and are growing on me and I crave their sound when I head to my system.

And yes, what fuzzy says in that last sentence is precisely what I hear from the HE500s.

they sound very close to a $50k B&W speaker home theatre which makes me like them

 

edit: most of my listening is on the go so i cant justify the need to buy these

...maybe ill get one anyways


Edited by fuzzyash - 1/4/13 at 8:38pm
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post #2167 of 3794
1/4/13 at 9:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

I think if that is how you define it, then most mid-fi cans have sub-bass.  Of course this is all relative to 1kz.  You could show 40Hz on name that headphone but 40 to 60db down?

 

I define sub-bass as at least 40Hz and below and not that far down relative to 1kz.  This would include orchestral bass drum, pipe organ, contra bassoon and tuba.  The planars can do it, the expensive Stax can do it, some of the older Denons (5000,7000) can.  IMHO.

many mid-fi cans have some sub bass.

 

the way i look at it is there's no definitive frequency range.  One of the mastering techniques I use is if a source recording utilizes the sub bass region, I will slightly boost the recording at 30hz which is where the real core of sub bass frequencies are.  A large amount of recordings don't have this frequency region.  When I implement a low-pass, I notice there is a real area of transition from undefinable notes to definable frequencies in the 40hz-50hz.  i got into an argument with an engineer quite recently who swears that for him sub bass dies out at precisely 59hz... go figure

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post #2168 of 3794
1/4/13 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

many mid-fi cans have some sub bass.

 

the way i look at it is there's no definitive frequency range.  One of the mastering techniques I use is if a source recording utilizes the sub bass region, I will slightly boost the recording at 30hz which is where the real core of sub bass frequencies are.  A large amount of recordings don't have this frequency region.  When I implement a low-pass, I notice there is a real area of transition from undefinable notes to definable frequencies in the 40hz-50hz.  i got into an argument with an engineer quite recently who swears that for him sub bass dies out at precisely 59hz... go figure

 

 

blink.gif

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post #2169 of 3794
1/4/13 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyash View Post

not sure where to post random impressions but here are mine
just listened to a bunch of headphones today and my favourite so far have to be the hifiman he-6 and the he500
i have tried some flagships/ high end heaphones including senn hd800, beyer t90, ultrasone signaure pro, senn hd650 and the hifiman beats them all imo
agreeing with david's review of the he-6 and he500, the mids, speed, imaging, and especially the bass impressed me, the bass quantity amount was just right for me, very adaptable for many genres, and very natural sounding with the slight hint of warmth
I agree with u..may i ask with what amp u listened to the hifiman's? Am curious, as i know the hifiman planars ( except the 400) are very dependent on the right amp to sound in their best. tongue.gif
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post #2170 of 3794
1/5/13 at 1:30am

Have you listened to Earsonics SM3? Could rival Westone 4 for your pick of best universal IEM

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post #2171 of 3794
1/5/13 at 1:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post


These are very precise rankings, is it on a scale of 1 to 10, why fractional numbers?

Nah, those are just made up numbers. I was probably a bit generous with the numbers anyway, as headphones like the Pro 900 and XB500 would have way over 10 with this bad scaling, lol.

Basically, a .5 difference is probably more of a point or two if they were scaled properly. My apologies. I'll try and redo the numbers to be more realistic with two starting references like the Pro 900 being a 10 in bass quantity, and the K701 (old 7 bump version) being a 6.
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post #2172 of 3794
1/5/13 at 1:57am

Are you going to review Audeze's latest reiteration of the LCD-2? Not sure if this has been asked but I'm not trawling through that many pages to find out sorry.

 

Baring in mind I've read this from the review itself, the cans haven't changed sonically in a while

 

I never did buy the LCD-2 rev. 2, not because I wasn't interested, but because it seemed that every time I checked, there was a new revision in the design. This revision process continues into recent times. It's something I'm not a huge fan of, but I do respect Audez'e for taking the time to troubleshoot known problems and improve their products.

 


Edited by h2oxide - 1/5/13 at 2:02am
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post #2173 of 3794
1/5/13 at 3:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubstep Girl View Post

the hd 650 has very good sub-bass it just isn't as strong as with other headphones like the denons or beyers. it was still quite enjoyable though and did come out more depending on the song.  

 

i do agree though that the hd 650s was slightly lacking in the mid-bass, it wasn't bad though.

I would have said that they had a little too much of this on a purely neutral perspective. But it is a pleasing mid bass hump all the same.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post


The HD800 (from the right setup) is the natural progression from the HD650 IMO. The oft recommended LCD-2 is more of a side-grade.
Queue the Audez'e defenders... ;-)

Thats the HE500's for me. They have a very similar character to the 650's but are technically better at everything. Kind of like switching on an imaginary "superior quality" button on your amp :D

I'd say that the Audeze is too much of a specialized signature to appeal to all 650 fans, because it is darker with a slightly narrower soundstage. Even though it is superior in regards to definition, imaging, control.

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post #2174 of 3794
1/5/13 at 3:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

I would have said that they had a little too much of this on a purely neutral perspective. But it is a pleasing mid bass hump all the same.

 

Thats the HE500's for me. They have a very similar character to the 650's but are technically better at everything. Kind of like switching on an imaginary "superior quality" button on your amp :D

I'd say that the Audeze is too much of a specialized signature to appeal to all 650 fans, because it is darker with a slightly narrower soundstage. Even though it is superior in regards to definition, imaging, control.

ur right...

in short..the he500 is the more complete headphone then both of them.

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post #2175 of 3794
1/5/13 at 4:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oxide View Post

Are you going to review Audeze's latest reiteration of the LCD-2? Not sure if this has been asked but I'm not trawling through that many pages to find out sorry.

 

Baring in mind I've read this from the review itself, the cans haven't changed sonically in a while

 

The Rev3 isn't it? Sometimes i confused which version LCD2 that i tested

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