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Sony MH1 R&D Story ...and discussion. - Page 7

post #91 of 232

That's great, I just happen to be looking for someone who can help me make perfect sense of the article.  I appreciate your detailed explanation and helpful response.

 

Let me start by reiterating my questions

 

What does freefield tuning have to do with it when Mr Sead's post explicitly begins with "Thus originally flat response in the free field (FF) will not be flat at drum reference point (DRP)." ?

 

How does one go about training oneself to negate the 6db effect, and is this something we expect the average user of Xperia phones to be able to perform?  

 

What evidence do we have to suggest that this entire thread is a shill for selling 20 dollar headphones to a community that happily pays $300 for a pair of similar sounding ones?


Edited by macbug - 11/6/12 at 1:12pm
post #92 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

I've often wondered whether the preference of "the masses" towards a bassy sound signature may be partly explained by the masking effect that environmental noise (in public transport or traffic) has on bass. Come to think of it, it may be interesting to hear an R&D man's opinion on this...

 

 

Well considering tips with shallow insertion, these don't usually provide that much attenuation at low frequencies usually <10dB or so... Further i.e car environment noise at low frequencies can be relatively high let say 90dB or even higher...  well you'll need sufficient output at the low frequencies in order to overshadow that noise source. This will partly be related to the music content and preferred listening levels... So one specific IEM that sound well balanced in the office environment can at the same time sound very thin in i.e urban environment...or other way around.  

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by putente View Post

 

The mod 3 you describe, it's just to prick the midle of the filter mesh with a needle, right

 

 

Right. 


Edited by Sead - 11/6/12 at 2:48pm
post #93 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by temporaryname View Post

Sounds like you have an axe to grind. If you don't understand the article, you can always lurk moar. It made perfect sense to me.

 

I've dabbled in psychoacoustics in both my Bachelor's and Master's degree and I can't say I understand Rin's articles with the same confidence you seem to have.  Are you sure you're talking about the right article?  And no way "lurking moar" would enable you to understand Rin's articles, that would take hardcore studying.  I means does anyone else in the blogosphere talk about acoustic RLC circuits?

post #94 of 232
Quote:

Originally Posted by Inks View Post

 

Well, the MH1 performs in a more linear fashion in free-field, coincidence? Maybe, maybe not, but my point was the critique of the blogger. Read his other articles on the 6db phenomenon, maybe ask a question there. 

 

Only in the deep insertion condition (for which the MH1 probably aren't even designed)?

 

 

Quote:

Rin has updated his analysis with a CSD with the vent closed. It further slows down the transients in the subbass regions and concludes the vents helps with transients, specially since the driver is of high compliance.

 

From the little I understand from his articles I thought slowing down bass helps with the 6dB phenomenon?

 

From the little I understand from the articles it sounds like the 6dB phenomenon can only be negated with complicated signal processing that isn't available to the average user at all

post #95 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbug View Post

That's great, I just happen to be looking for someone who can help me make perfect sense of the article.  I appreciate your detailed explanation and helpful response.

 

Let me start by reiterating my questions

 

What does freefield tuning have to do with it when Mr Sead's post explicitly begins with "Thus originally flat response in the free field (FF) will not be flat at drum reference point (DRP)." ?

 

How does one go about training oneself to negate the 6db effect, and is this something we expect the average user of Xperia phones to be able to perform?  

 

What evidence do we have to suggest that this entire thread is a shill for selling 20 dollar headphones to a community that happily pays $300 for a pair of similar sounding ones?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sead View Post

 

 

Well considering tips with shallow insertion, these don't usually provide that much attenuation at low frequencies usually <10dB or so... Further i.e car environment noise at low frequencies can be relatively high let say 90dB or even higher...  well you'll need sufficient output at the low frequencies in order to overshadow that noise source. This will partly be related to the music content and preferred listening levels... So one specific IEM that sound well balanced in the office environment can at the same time sound very thin in i.e urban environment...or other way around.  

 

 


 

Right. 

Just wanna mention the tips included with mh1c are in a word amazing!!!!the fit the comfort, i never felt anything quite like them!!! i hope sony in the future will include this new designed tip with all their iems these beat the hybids imho. i cant even feel them in my ears!!!At moment using them on mdrx310 and what an upgrade!!!!Sead do you think Sony will offer these in future? you folks surely hit a home run with this new tip design..... Bravo

post #96 of 232
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

From the little I understand from his articles I thought slowing down bass helps with the 6dB phenomenon?

From the little I understand from the articles it sounds like the 6dB phenomenon can only be negated with complicated signal processing that isn't available to the average user at all

I could be wrong at this since Rin's article isn't exactly normal English writing, but I think the 6dB discussion is a little blew out of proportion some time - No, I am not saying he doesn't have a good ground to make those claims, but MH1 isn't exactly tuned for reference sounding in the first place. It was supposed to strike a good balance between your average, more bass carving casual listener and those of us who are more critical in music listening. The final tuning is actually done with feedback from both musician and normal user alike, and they might or might not looking for a reference sound, but rather an more enjoyable sound. I don't think anyone can deny that there are more casual listener out there than there will be critical listeners x 100. Even among audiophiles, not everyone is looking for a reference sound and that's why not every top-end IEM / CIEM follow the same ideal curve Etymotic is using, and less so on a headset that is not trying to be reference sounding from the beginning. If there is an IEM maker claiming they have the most accurate sounding IEM in the world, then the 6dB discussion will be more relevant - or we can all start to proclaim if an IEM is not reference flat, it is not worth listening.
post #97 of 232

Re Rin's blog, don't you just wish you were actually "affiliated" to Sony wink.gif

post #98 of 232

Isn't that foam insert also preventing condensation/moisture buildup inside there , as well as cleaning the treble?

 

If someone wants to decrease the bass slightly why not find a tip with a wider opening. I'm not used to smaller IEM stuff( just vintage ortho modding ) but it's a bass lens effect the smaller you go it will focus that or the opposite if you go larger, theoretically.

I'm sure someone's already posted this tip swap impression up somewhere one way or the other.

 

Blocking the venting is not going to ruin the driver ( shouldn't ) it'll just limit the driver excursion  causing a hydraulic lockup before it hit's it's designed excursion limits due to hitting the pressure ( like a piston ), dependent on the drivers build and how much air it'll actually throw compared to the sealed rear airspace. Lockup assuming it's a hermetically sealed chamber of a small enough volume to build up the pressure enough to cause that..

 

If you are worried about blocking the venting fully then you could try something that lets a limited amount of pressure through like a piece of thin remay cloth type fabric/whatever ( which would look ridiculous ), but for the minor intermediate difference between the blocked and unblocked graphs might as well go all out.

 

sorry to blab all this should apply to smaller stuff as well as fullsized, I think.ph34r.gif  You probably already knew this anyhow.


Edited by nick n - 11/6/12 at 7:55pm
post #99 of 232
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Re Rin's blog, don't you just wish you were actually "affiliated" to Sony wink.gif

So you think I should start sending email to Sony asking for my missing paycheck? biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

Isn't that foam insert also preventing condensation/moisture buildup inside there , as well as cleaning the treble?

It is not the foam that prevents the moisture from going inside the housing. It is the mesh.
post #100 of 232

the mesh.

oh yeah right my bad.

thanks for the reminder

post #101 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by putente View Post

 

Great post, Sead! Thank you very much! I think it should be added to the OP... beerchug.gif

 

 

The mod 3 you describe, it's just to prick the midle of the filter mesh with a needle, right?

careful with that one. My thinnest sewing needle was too much when I tried. Had to open the bass back up a bit to compensate. A retune is now in order, LOL Fortunately they're pretty cool as they come for those that like extra bass and smooth sound.


Edited by goodvibes - 11/7/12 at 5:28am
post #102 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

careful with that one. My thinnest sewing needle was too much when I tried. Had to open the bass back up a bit to compensate. A retune is now in order, LOL Fortunately they're pretty cool as they come for those that like extra bass and smooth sound.

 

 

Since I don't have anything thinner than needles at home, then it's probably better if I don't try it... redface.gif

 

Thank you for the tip!

post #103 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Do you feel this leakage is required or just stating that it doesn't need to be looked at further because IEMs are not hermetically sealed.

Well, kind of both, depends how you see it, except for the leakage there is also compliance/volume behind the driver to be considered if we are talking about shaping the bass response and/or membrane excursion control...

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by putente View Post

 

Great post, Sead! Thank you very much! I think it should be added to the OP... beerchug.gif

 

 

The mod 3 you describe, it's just to prick the midle of the filter mesh with a needle, right?

careful with that one. My thinnest sewing needle was too much when I tried. Had to open the bass back up a bit to compensate. A retune is now in order, LOL Fortunately they're pretty cool as they come for those that like extra bass and smooth sound.

 

Guys, if you intend to try mod3, place the filter mesh on the paper- block or something similar (semi soft), than just use the tip of the needle to make a hole, by that you'll get much better control over the diameter and reduce the risk for oversizing it. 


Edited by Sead - 11/7/12 at 11:38pm
post #104 of 232

I'm still struggling with them pulling out a lot. I get a good seal but the slight tug, or touch of the earphone and out it comes. its ok at a desk but it just annoying when walking. Tried the larger tips but the mediums are the best fit. The clip helps a little. But not a huge amount. Which other bud/iem , Sennheiser or other would ye consider closest to the MH1C. 

post #105 of 232

If I couldn't wear these over ear, I wouldn't. Shallow fit and heavy cable don't really go hand in hand. I've had fun playing around with these. I'd recommend folks don't try the mid increase mod. I've been able to go small hole and to getting the treble to match requires no foam and it loses too much refinement. I still like the port blocked because the bass is just more than I can personally bear without but there are some trade offs in the freeness of the sound. What's interesting is that you can get a decent balance with the port open, the mids bumped up slightly and zero foam but it's a bit ragged overall and takes away the relaxed composure that most like about it.

 

I'll revert lots of what I've done to where I had it early on with some foam and the port blocked and call it a day. Probably keep them for loud environments like a plane or give em to a niece or nephew. They're a fine value get and hard to beat for the right customer but not really my flavor.

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