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Sony MH1 R&D Story ...and discussion. - Page 6

post #76 of 232

 Hi guys,

 

as there have been some ongoing discussions related to MH1 mods, here comes some suggestion what can be done to shape and customize the sound according to your own preference.

 

 

mod1. If you experience bass being muddy/exaggerated, try to block the vent, this is suppose to reduce the bass ~2-3dB

700

 

mod2. if you would like to improve some "airiness" try to remove foam from the tube. However without foam, overall smoothness of the treble will be affected.

700

 

mod3 If you would like to get some more presence in the mids, make a small hole (~0.2mm diameter) in the center of the filter mesh. This one require some delicate work, so be careful to not oversize the hole.  

 

700

Anyhow, these are just some of suggestions what can be done relatively easily to influence certain ranges, however i don't take any responsibilities for your actions, so do it on your own risk!L3000.gif


Edited by Sead - 11/6/12 at 4:06am
post #77 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sead View Post

 Hi guys,

 

as there have been some ongoing discussions related to MH1 mods, here comes some suggestion what can be done to shape and customize the sound according to your own preference.

 

 

mod1. If you experience bass being muddy/exaggerated, try to block the vent, this is suppose to bring down the bass ~2-3dB

700

 

mod2. if you would like to improve some "airiness" try to remove foam from the tube. However without foam, smoothness of the lower treble will be affected.

700

 

mod3 If you would like to get some more presence in the mids, make a small hole (~0.2mm diameter) in the center of the filter mesh. This require some delicate work, so be careful to not oversize it.  

 

700

Anyhow, these are just some of suggestions what can be done relatively easily to influence certain ranges, however i don't take any responsibilities for your actions, so do it on your own risk!L3000.gif

 

What happens if you remove the foam AND make a small hole in the filter mesh?

 

Also. Is there a reason why the housing is magnetic? (the two earpieces stick together)

post #78 of 232

So the drivers won't be damaged because of the pressure when inserting the earphones after covering the vent?

post #79 of 232
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post #80 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomikn00b View Post

 

What happens if you remove the foam AND make a small hole in the filter mesh?

 

Also. Is there a reason why the housing is magnetic? (the two earpieces stick together)

Well, these graphs are just a guideline what happen if you play with a certain parameters, you can try to estimate effect when combining these by adding together "diff" curves.  

 

Reason why the housing is magnetic is because of relatively large and powerful neodymium's of the micro drivers.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustdevil View Post

So the drivers won't be damaged because of the pressure when inserting the earphones after covering the vent?

 

...Most likely not, there is still some leakage coming from the strain of the cable. 


Edited by Sead - 11/6/12 at 4:29am
post #81 of 232
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomikn00b View Post


Also. Is there a reason why the housing is magnetic? (the two earpieces stick together)

Because of the strong magnet used in the dynamic driver. The housing itself isn't magnetic.
post #82 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sead View Post

Well, these graphs are just a guideline what happen if you play with a certain parameters, you can try to estimate effect when combining these by adding together "diff" curves.  

 

Reason why the housing is magnetic is because of relatively large and powerful neodymium's of the micro drivers.

 

 

 

...Most likely not, there is still some leakage coming from the strain of the cable. 

Do you feel this leakage is required or just stating that it doesn't need to be looked at further because IEMs are not hermetically sealed.

post #83 of 232
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

I've been trying out the MW1 headset version of these phones and think they're excellent for the price. With regards to bass (I know these are just subjective listening impressions), I've A/Bed them with my IE8 and even though I'd consider the Senn's as overall superior, the Sonys sound a lot less bass bloated to my ears. Maybe that's because they peak further down than the IE8, idk, but I didn't quite hear them as emphasized as Rin's graph would suggest.

 

One more thing I'd factor in when it comes to bass level is isolation. IEMs are mainly intended for mobile use and bass is the first thing to get drowned out in a noisy environment, since isolation usually works worse in the low frequency range. A moderate bass emphasis can partly make up for this effect, though I'm of course not saying that it's the healthiest solution.

Well the IE8 is one of the most bloated midbassy IEMs there is in the higher end, maybe it does have more midbass as the MH1's biggest bass peak is at subbass regions. While bass is affected by outside noise, I feel it's still somewhat overstated IME. I do prefer my HF3 with orange dampers in the bass to a ER4S or stock HF in loud noise, but the differences aren't huge and my modded HF3 will likely have a heck of a lot less bass than the MH1. 

 

Originally Posted by macbug View Post

 

I don't know if it's just me misreading, but I don't see anywhere in Sead's writing saying that he used free field to tune anything, in fact he explicitly stated the opposite.  Also I read that 6db debunked posting and I'm still confused, first it states that "proper procedure" can eliminate the physiological variables without outlining how it can be done in the real world, second it still admits that untrained listener, that is the target audience of this headphone, will still experience this phenomenon.  Lastly I'm unfamiliar with this non-individualized binaural synthesis method as it's simply not standard in MP3 players and android smart phones, so in what sense is it debunked and how is this any different than claiming there is no need to boost anything because the user can always use EQ?

Well, the MH1 performs in a more linear fashion in free-field, coincidence? Maybe, maybe not, but my point was the critique of the blogger. Read his other articles on the 6db phenomenon, maybe ask a question there. 

 


Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Closing the vent should only provide more back pressure to the driver and help prevent over excursion on a sealed insertion or removal. I don't see the mechanism that would provide greater risk. On a sealed insertion, the diaphragm would move until there was equal pressure on either side of it (- some mechanical resistance) and slowly relax to neutral, same as with an open vent. The amount of pressure would be a non issue as it's equal and excursion should be held in better check. The biggest difference is the shorter and less violent excursion compare to an open vent where the driver can be brought to it's mechanical limit more easily and dramatically. Cooling is also a non issue with any normal usage. I don't see how venting protects a driver.

Rin had spoke to an engineer, he says top and front vents are to avoid pressure, back vents are for bass tuning. I used the wrong examples too sorry, the MC5 of Rin's broke because of another reason, it was another IEM that had damage after a vent was closed. He says the engineer told him the MC series has a rerouting mechanism to avoid the pressure damage, same as Sennhesier CX300.

 

Rin has updated his analysis with a CSD with the vent closed. It further slows down the transients in the subbass regions and concludes the vents helps with transients, specially since the driver is of high compliance. 


Edited by Inks - 11/6/12 at 10:31am
post #84 of 232

I'm asking here because it's a discussion related to the actual R&D story and because I have read his other articles, some multiple times, and I do not understand what he's trying to say.   Obviously I lack the prerequisite knowledge to be involved in the discussion in depth, but his articles read like something written by Star Trek characters trying to convince me I can't possibly go past warp 5.  I was hoping that for example someone could explain things in plain English to begin with, otherwise the only thing I understood is that he thinks the entire industry is either incompetent or dishonest or both, and that he has an axe to grind because no one would send him any samples to review.  I work in the video games industry and I certainly am familiar with marketing gimmicks and the things they do to gain favorable reviews, but the level of maturity displayed on that blog alone would be reason enough for me not to send him any samples.  Case in point his attack on ClieOS is totally uncalled for and the tone of his article does not in any way suggests he wants to engage in an open and honest discussion starting on grounds of mutual respect.  Obviously this is influenced by what he thinks is essentially Mr. Sead being a paid marketing guy so I can understand where he's coming from, but I think if he doesn't really want to change the establishment's minds then perhaps he's better off making his own customs to prove the point.  I'm sure most of us, including ClieOS, would happily gush over it if provided with free samples.

post #85 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Well the IE8 is one of the most bloated midbassy IEMs there is in the higher end, maybe it does have more midbass as the MH1's biggest bass peak is at subbass regions.

 

Yeah I agree, that's pretty much the explanation. Plus maybe the fact that I perceive a bloated midbass as more obtrusive than a subbass peak.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

While bass is affected by outside noise, I feel it's still somewhat overstated IME. I do prefer my HF3 with orange dampers in the bass to a ER4S or stock HF in loud noise, but the differences aren't huge and my modded HF3 will likely have a heck of a lot less bass than the MH1.

 

Hmm, I don't have the Etys, but according to Tyll's measurements, the ER4PT have 20-40db difference in isolation between the lows and highs, so I don't think the potential effect of outside noise is overstated. Of course it depends on the kind of noise, but let's say, if you're inside a subway train that produces a decent amount of bass rumble (among other noises), that will profoundly affect your perceived frequency balance, ime.

 

I've often wondered whether the preference of "the masses" towards a bassy sound signature may be partly explained by the masking effect that environmental noise (in public transport or traffic) has on bass. Come to think of it, it may be interesting to hear an R&D man's opinion on this...

post #86 of 232

But then you're fighting lower register noise with noise and giving up fidelity. This is why isolation is so important for quality sound in louder environments. I like to use my high isolating BAs for commuting and vented dynamics for quieter settings. 


Edited by Inks - 11/6/12 at 12:02pm
post #87 of 232

^ Agreed, but there's no denying that when even highly isolatiing BAs like the ER4PT have a 20-40db difference in isolation between the lows and highs, the potential masking effect for bass is still there.

post #88 of 232

Yup and I do agree that bass should be upped a bit because of that, but not that much IMO. 

post #89 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbug View Post

I'm asking here because it's a discussion related to the actual R&D story and because I have read his other articles, some multiple times, and I do not understand what he's trying to say.   Obviously I lack the prerequisite knowledge to be involved in the discussion in depth, but his articles read like something written by Star Trek characters trying to convince me I can't possibly go past warp 5.  I was hoping that for example someone could explain things in plain English to begin with, otherwise the only thing I understood is that he thinks the entire industry is either incompetent or dishonest or both, and that he has an axe to grind because no one would send him any samples to review.  I work in the video games industry and I certainly am familiar with marketing gimmicks and the things they do to gain favorable reviews, but the level of maturity displayed on that blog alone would be reason enough for me not to send him any samples.  Case in point his attack on ClieOS is totally uncalled for and the tone of his article does not in any way suggests he wants to engage in an open and honest discussion starting on grounds of mutual respect.  Obviously this is influenced by what he thinks is essentially Mr. Sead being a paid marketing guy so I can understand where he's coming from, but I think if he doesn't really want to change the establishment's minds then perhaps he's better off making his own customs to prove the point.  I'm sure most of us, including ClieOS, would happily gush over it if provided with free samples.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind. If you don't understand the article, you can always lurk moar. It made perfect sense to me.
post #90 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sead View Post

 Hi guys,

 

as there have been some ongoing discussions related to MH1 mods, here comes some suggestion what can be done to shape and customize the sound according to your own preference.

 

 

mod1. If you experience bass being muddy/exaggerated, try to block the vent, this is suppose to reduce the bass ~2-3dB

700

 

mod2. if you would like to improve some "airiness" try to remove foam from the tube. However without foam, overall smoothness of the treble will be affected.

700

 

mod3 If you would like to get some more presence in the mids, make a small hole (~0.2mm diameter) in the center of the filter mesh. This one require some delicate work, so be careful to not oversize the hole.  

 

700

Anyhow, these are just some of suggestions what can be done relatively easily to influence certain ranges, however i don't take any responsibilities for your actions, so do it on your own risk!L3000.gif

 

Great post, Sead! Thank you very much! I think it should be added to the OP... beerchug.gif

 

 

The mod 3 you describe, it's just to prick the midle of the filter mesh with a needle, right?

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