Sony MH1 R&D Story ...and discussion. - Page 5

Sead,

Thank you for creating a decent sounding IEM for a more affordable price. I hope trend this will continue and hopefully bring some sanity to this poor hobby of ours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by temporaryname 

Sead,

Thank you for creating a decent sounding IEM for a more affordable price. I hope trend this will continue and hopefully bring some sanity to this poor hobby of ours.

Well I had a few bucks  to spare and so I picked up this IEM to demo. 

Originally Posted by goodvibes 

The test blog other than its conclusions is not bad at all. The bass port closing removes bass exactly from where it needs it. 2 db removed from the lower mids and upper bass makes all the difference in the world. It also tightens the character throughout to sound better damped. (a specific complaint in the blog).  I also heard the dip in the lower treble. The shallow insertion has also already been discussed here as sounding more linear and confirmed by the designer as helping. Also noted in the blog. A bit of foam removal also helps with it's presence.

 

 To me it will always be a bass heavy IEM and a little on the smooth side but I find it, with mods, to do exactly as ClieOS describes and reach well above it's modest price. No, it's not going to outperform the high end IEM of your choice but it's more than just the cheap fotm. I agree with the blog about the bass as stock but unlike the blog, I find it acceptable when blocked and don't agree with the recommendation to leave it open, depending on taste. As stock, I couldn't personally use it either as I'm not a bass head and I actually found it somewhat fatiguing but find it quite the deal with the port sealed and actually like it in the mix with some foam removed. I could see this as my go to when on a plane for instance. I certainly wouldn't want to spend a lot on a bass heavy IEM and this one fills that need with more refinement than I could ever expect for the price. Yes, it's not the best thing since sliced bread as many are treating it but it is a super deal and a good product with very little massaging.

  Can't be certain as to my subjective evaluation, though I will listen to these soon, but even with a 2db reduction in that bass, it still looks exaggerated, to me the GR07 is already a tiny bit too midbassy. Rin recommends to leave it open because over-pressuring the driver will result in damage in the future. Happened to his MC5 and EX90, even then, again, it's not a big reduction and you do reduce the midhighs and treble a bit. I think a leaky seal will be nice for these, but will make them more like earbuds. 

Originally Posted by ClieOS 


MC5 as in Etymotic MC5? I thought MC5 is fully seal on the back chamber....

Exactly why it happened because of the lack of venting in the MC5, the EX90 is vented but the pressurization sensitivity must of been high there. It's a risk, maybe it won't happen all the time, but the possibility is there, that closing the vent might cause damage, all for a 2db change, IMO I will rather EQ it away or use a leaky seal or maybe partial closing of the vent perhaps. 

Well it happened, there's no way way of exactly knowing how and why in his case, though it surely wasn't loudness. Pressuring the driver like that may be safe for the most part, but it's a risk imo as I think there's a chance for failure. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS 

Apparently I am that "affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM". Quite a lengthy way around for saying 'shill'? Well, won't be the first time I was called that but I guess it comes with the territory. On 2nd thought, why not put this into the the first page for people to judge for themselves?
[EDIT] Done.

I've read the linked article, and while I do not agree with everything stated in there, I fully respect other people's opinion and their thoughts on IEM design philosophy. My own  MH1 R&D article just reflects my personal design philosophy that went into this project. I personally think that it would interesting if other IEM designer would also share their audio design philosophy on forums like these.  

Originally Posted by Sead 

I've read the linked article, and while I do not agree with everything stated in there, I fully respect other people's opinion and their thoughts on IEM design philosophy. My own  MH1 R&D article just reflects my personal design philosophy that went into this project. I personally think that it would interesting if other IEM designer would also share their audio design philosophy on forums like these.  

What exactly did you not agree with? Free-field and missing 6db are debunked and the loudness curve shouldn't be used for tuning, I think there's good grounds there. Regardless, his analysis did show good results except in the bass, where things are a bit exaggerated in the MH1. 

Closing the vent should only provide more back pressure to the driver and help prevent over excursion on a sealed insertion or removal. I don't see the mechanism that would provide greater risk. On a sealed insertion, the diaphragm would move until there was equal pressure on either side of it (- some mechanical resistance) and slowly relax to neutral, same as with an open vent. The amount of pressure would be a non issue as it's equal and excursion should be held in better check. The biggest difference is the shorter and less violent excursion compare to an open vent where the driver can be brought to it's mechanical limit more easily and dramatically. Cooling is also a non issue with any normal usage. I don't see how venting protects a driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inks 

  Can't be certain as to my subjective evaluation, though I will listen to these soon, but even with a 2db reduction in that bass, it still looks exaggerated, to me the GR07 is already a tiny bit too midbassy. Rin recommends to leave it open because over-pressuring the driver will result in damage in the future. Happened to his MC5 and EX90, even then, again, it's not a big reduction and you do reduce the midhighs and treble a bit. I think a leaky seal will be nice for these, but will make them more like earbuds. 

It is still exaggerated but enough better in character that I can use it where I personally couldn't before. I agree that a GR07 bass is still less emphasized and just has better character in general. I don't see how a fraction of a db in the mids is noteworthy when a couple of DB difference in an area that could use it is inconsequential. I feel the pressure damage postulation is just coincidence. I would think something designed to be sealed could be at some risk if leaking instead of the other way around. Wires from the coil to the terminals is the most likely point of failure and that fatigue is generally emphasized with increased bending.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inks 

What exactly did you not agree with? Free-field and missing 6db are debunked and the loudness curve shouldn't be used for tuning, I think there's good grounds there. Regardless, his analysis did show good results except in the bass, where things are a bit exaggerated in the MH1. 

I don't know if it's just me misreading, but I don't see anywhere in Sead's writing saying that he used free field to tune anything, in fact he explicitly stated the opposite.  Also I read that 6db debunked posting and I'm still confused, first it states that "proper procedure" can eliminate the physiological variables without outlining how it can be done in the real world, second it still admits that untrained listener, that is the target audience of this headphone, will still experience this phenomenon.  Lastly I'm unfamiliar with this non-individualized binaural synthesis method as it's simply not standard in MP3 players and android smart phones, so in what sense is it debunked and how is this any different than claiming there is no need to boost anything because the user can always use EQ?

I've been trying out the MW1 headset version of these phones and think they're excellent for the price. With regards to bass (I know these are just subjective listening impressions), I've A/Bed them with my IE8 and even though I'd consider the Senn's as overall superior, the Sonys sound a lot less bass bloated to my ears. Maybe that's because they peak further down than the IE8, idk, but I didn't quite hear them as emphasized as Rin's graph would suggest.

One more thing I'd factor in when it comes to bass level is isolation. IEMs are mainly intended for mobile use and bass is the first thing to get drowned out in a noisy environment, since isolation usually works worse in the low frequency range. A moderate bass emphasis can partly make up for this effect, though I'm of course not saying that it's the healthiest solution.