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Sony MH1 R&D Story ...and discussion. - Page 12

post #166 of 232

Update to Rin's MH1's comment in relation to the affiliation.

 

IMO, his explanations are commercially oriented excuses to sell a product. not to mention that there is an affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM. Is a bad excuse better than none? No, I don't think so. (to whom may it concern: I have no interest in bashing anybody with the above statement, absolutely no reason to do so. To my standard, whether there's a monetary transaction involved or not, if a blog is in close relation with a representative of a special interest, then it's as good as an affiliation. AND if the blog actually shows off the product with manufacturer bias, then it is an advertisement. Even I had a phone chat with Mr.Jonathan stewart of Etymotic Research, thus I should be affiliated as well with Etymotic Research in a way.)

post #167 of 232
Thread Starter 
By Rin's standard, I am probably affiliated with 75% of IEM brands in the market. Readers beware biggrin.gif

Anyway, we have done enough running around in circuit and frankly I am tired of playing with words, so please keep this thread to its intended purpose from now on.
post #168 of 232

I do agree, theres potential to go in circles here, that last part was requested to be made more clear though. 


Edited by Inks - 11/13/12 at 1:28am
post #169 of 232

And you're back in the room!

 

Thanks Sead.

 

I really appreciate the time you have taken to illustrate the development process for the MH-1. You are a brave man, and also proud of the fruits of your labour. It is also a good thing to see your enthusiasm demonstrated by you being active in the Modding discussions. 

 

I wish more designers and engineers would be as open as you have been.

 

I must admit the cost compromises that you have made are of interest to me as you could always use an unobtainium diaphragm hand forged by Balinese maidens and pickled in Beluga caviar, but for a high volume consumer product. You just can't.

 

I bought a pair of these with my very own money and am rather impressed (I paid £12 from Amazon). The sound is very consumer friendly, but the quality shines through in the mid range and treble. I feel a bit guilty I didn't get the Xperia now :) 

I like the subversive idea that bundling these with phones will make people thing Beats sound as bad as they do. We all win!

post #170 of 232
Yay.....hopefully you've not scared the man away.
post #171 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

By Rin's standard, I am probably affiliated with 75% of IEM brands in the market. Readers beware biggrin.gif
Anyway, we have done enough running around in circuit and frankly I am tired of playing with words, so please keep this thread to its intended purpose from now on.

 

lol

and this's the best part: 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Update to Rin's MH1's comment in relation to the affiliation.

 

IMO, his explanations are commercially oriented excuses to sell a product. not to mention that there is an affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM. Is a bad excuse better than none? No, I don't think so. (to whom may it concern: I have no interest in bashing anybody with the above statement, absolutely no reason to do so. To my standard, whether there's a monetary transaction involved or not, if a blog is in close relation with a representative of a special interest, then it's as good as an affiliation. AND if the blog actually shows off the product with manufacturer bias, then it is an advertisement. Even I had a phone chat with Mr.Jonathan stewart of Etymotic Research, thus I should be affiliated as well with Etymotic Research in a way.)

post #172 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by conkerman View Post

And you're back in the room!

 

Thanks Sead.

 

I really appreciate the time you have taken to illustrate the development process for the MH-1. You are a brave man, and also proud of the fruits of your labour. It is also a good thing to see your enthusiasm demonstrated by you being active in the Modding discussions. 

 

I wish more designers and engineers would be as open as you have been.

 

I must admit the cost compromises that you have made are of interest to me as you could always use an unobtainium diaphragm hand forged by Balinese maidens and pickled in Beluga caviar, but for a high volume consumer product. You just can't.

 

I bought a pair of these with my very own money and am rather impressed (I paid £12 from Amazon). The sound is very consumer friendly, but the quality shines through in the mid range and treble. I feel a bit guilty I didn't get the Xperia now :) 

I like the subversive idea that bundling these with phones will make people thing Beats sound as bad as they do. We all win!

 

Nice to be back, and I'm glad that you see it in that way.   Thanx!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzy011 View Post

Pozdrav Seade! Hello Sead!

 

 

Is it there scientific ways to lower resonance, to lower spikes on diagrams, to make real frequency response closer to reference one? or is it still hit or run process?

 

Is there some kind of filters (or whatever their name is), air canals/chambers, etc that can help? Or is that characteristic of certain driver?

 

Thanks.

 

Pozdrav Muzzy011,

 

Yes there are scientific ways, but it's rather complex process involving many parameters in combination with their physical and practical  limitations. Resonances in an iem are related to speaker driver design + front/back chamber dimensions + users ear canal, check out this link if you are interested to find more on how to shape these resonances by playing with the tube design. (Sorry for very technical link, but that one just happened to pop up). Anyhow, once resonances are in place, next step is to control/tune their energy with various types of dampers, part of it can been find in i.e. "mod" section... were target in MH1 was to tune towards perceived "in-ear resonance free"- response... Anyhow to go back to your question, yes it is possible to predict and control resonances to get even closer to the "MH1 target" curve... 


Edited by Sead - 11/13/12 at 7:16am
post #173 of 232

Nice to see you here again! beerchug.gifbeerchug.gif
 

post #174 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sead View Post

 

Nice to be back, and I'm glad that you see it in that way.   Thanx!

 

 

 

Pozdrav Muzzy011,

 

Yes there are scientific ways, but it's rather complex process involving many parameters in combination with their physical and practical  limitations. Resonances in an iem are related to speaker driver design + front/back chamber dimensions + users ear canal, check out this link if you are interested to find more on how to shape these resonances by playing with the tube design. (Sorry for very technical link, but that one just happened to pop up). Anyhow, once resonances are in place, next step is to control/tune their energy with various types of dampers, part of it can been find in i.e. "mod" section... were target in MH1 was to tune towards perceived "in-ear resonance free"- response... Anyhow to go back to your question, yes it is possible to predict and control resonances to get even closer to the "MH1 target" curve... 

Thanks for answer, Sead.

 

Link you send is very technical, but it is understandable to acceptable level.

 

So final sound is really tradeoff between Time/Money/TargetMarket, so that is one more reason to appreciate MH1. Thanks again for bringing that beauty to us. And thank you for giving us a bit of insight of their developement, and having patience answering questions to all of us. 

post #175 of 232

.

post #176 of 232
'.' to you too!

Ironically, now the argueing has abated, the thread has died a bit.

I'd like to ask a question to Sead; is there another material that can be used to tune earphones that doesn't attenuate the entire spectrum as much as the foam in these?

The reason I ask is my only gripe with the MH1C is how power hungry they are and just wondered if there is an alternative material.

Thanks in advance.
post #177 of 232

It's part of the tune. as efficiency goes up by less filter, the response evenness likely suffers and the efficiency difference wont be very great and still related to the driver's original design parameters as well. You likely traded some efficiency for bass response. I'm surprised at how often the inefficiency is commented on as I think it's more than fine and see it as a non issue.

 

Some of the tuning may be unseen at the driver opening to the nozzle. It's likely small enough to offer some resistance tuning of it's own. Perhaps Sead could comment.


Edited by goodvibes - 11/16/12 at 1:29pm
post #178 of 232

Behold the punctured ear tips!

 

1000

I very much like the results after I drilled very small holes in the supplied silicone sleeves. You may have to click on the above image to see the holes in the enlarged photo. (The story is continued from here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/594945/6-panasonic-rp-hje120-surprisingly-usable/15#post_8854187. Basically, I played with the cheaper Panasonic RP-HJE120 before deciding how to change the sound of the MH1C.)

 

I ended up making four tiny holes per tip--still a bit bassy, but I didn't want to overdo it. With this "mod", the bass response now more closely matches what I hear from live music. The timbre of musical notes has been improved since the proportions of the fundamental and the harmonics is in better balance. After some time with a tone generator and matching the volume, I can tell that (for my ears at least) the response above 1 kHz hasn't changed much.

 

I normally use a parametric EQ like Equalizer or Accudio, but many apps like Pandora, YouTube, and Netflix can't use them. The punctured tips have the potential to match the huge bass reducer filter that I use on the MH1C. They actually sound pretty good now. The time domain characteristics aren't completely independent of the magnitude response, so I would guess that the transient response has been improved also. I'd love to see impulse response and CSD measurements on these things after EQ or after using these tips.

 

Isolation isn't as good after the change, but I'd rather trade that for better spectral balance. Also, driver flex during insertion has been greatly reduced. The technique also worked for the HJE120, but I can see it working for any bassy IEM, e.g., UE100, Klipsch S4, etc.

 

If we can find a way to get controlled leakage from foam ear tips, we may be able to neutralize the sound of v-shaped IEMs.

 

700

 

I forgot the size of the drill bit, but I started with the smallest #80 wire gauge bit and went down from there. A #75 is still too small. With the one pictured above, it took many passes of the bit through the hole, and in both directions before I got the opening of the desired size. I had considered other ways of puncturing the sleeve, like using a needle tip with a soldering iron, but I never got to try them because the drill worked well enough.


Edited by yuriv - 11/17/12 at 12:54am
post #179 of 232

I considered trying that for fun. Well done. I bet heating a needle over the stove (pliers) would work but I'd test on some tips I don't care about first.


Edited by goodvibes - 11/17/12 at 6:52am
post #180 of 232

To Sead:

 

I was wondering, are MH1C still in production or are we just buying from some large stock, that will in some time run out?

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