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Sony MH1 R&D Story ...and discussion. - Page 9

post #121 of 232
I have a question.

Why is it when I'm wearing MC1 and apply a slight amount of pressure to the housings does the sound become clearer?

It not only this earphone but many others I've experienced, but these so much better when I apply the light amount of pressure and hold them in my ears, the sound becomes really clear and I can't work out why?? I can never get it to stay that way though, as soon as I let go they go back.

Help!
Edited by H20Fidelity - 11/11/12 at 8:58pm
post #122 of 232

could be due to your fingers dealing with some extra vibrations in the housings? That'd be my guess.  Like a giant application of dynamat :) and/or baffle loading.  or the post below most probably bigsmile_face.gif


Edited by nick n - 11/11/12 at 9:06pm
post #123 of 232
Newbie here, but I have generally had the same problem and thought it was normal. Only recently did I discover that it takes a while to find tips that fit well and seal well. Then the sound stays as it should - which is way better than without a proper fit and seal.
post #124 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

 Even though you've mentioned you're open to criticism, the later posts here seem to indicate otherwise to Rin's case (taking a stab at his writing). Yes, Rin writes in technical terms that for certain users it can be hard to follow, but he is quite coherent in what he says, though at times it can be open to interpretation (as it can be with writing in general). He disagrees with some tuning approaches taken and then is skeptical after your positive review which was released in conjunction with the article. Skepticism like this should be welcomed, despite disagreement. The MH1 actually shows to perform well overall in his analysis, minus the bass. 

Man why do you take Rin's (who I don't know who is besides the fact that he has his own blog with fancy graphs) words as absolute truth? I have seen that in many threads you like to trash iems just based on Rin's opinion, why are you being so fanatical about it? Maybe you could enlight me why Rin's opinion is so goddam important to you, is he some sort of engineer who works for etymotics or westone? I am a nobody here on Head-fi but still I find strange that you take Rin's word over one of the designers of the iem in question (Sead). I am starting to studying electronic engineering so with some hope I will be able to understand a bit more on what the graphs and technical words means in Rin's blog, but you most know that in the end the mesurements can only tell you so much when you hear something and you know you like it. I don't want to be rude, because I don't know you and even if I did I understand that everyone is entitled to have his own opinion.

post #125 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
I think you are confusing 'open to criticism' with 'must agree to another person's opinion'. I have no problem if Rin find the 6dB to be problematic, I merely provide the reason why I think a 6dB bass bump shouldn't always be an issue to all IEM all the time. Here is the posts I have made about the the 6dB theory.
But then again, tuning theory is not what I have a problem with Rin - If you were called a shill when you are not, should you welcome it or defend yourself? Note that he is not being sceptical about me being a shill, he is claiming me as one (even though not in the direct wording of 'shill', but any English speaker should understand what "affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM" means.
Should we call DSnuts a shill as well? He posted much more recommendation over MH1C than I do. Maybe he is secretly paid by Sony, unlike me who posted PUBLICLY that I received sample from them and has been working with one of the engineer on an article? I must be the stupidest shill ever rolleyes.gif
Seriously though, Rin isn't the first to call me a shill and probably won't be the last one. I have prised many other IEM before and there are other who have disagreed and called me out because of the disagreement. But there is a fine line between a person's voicing his agree/disagreement and just straight out calling another person shill because you don't share his opinion. I think as a prominent reviewer in his own right, Rin should have paid more respect to his power as a reviewer.

  6db? The MH1 has a 10db+ bass boost based on his DF standards, I think you're confusing it with the 6db phenomenon where loudspeakers seem to have 6db more in lower regions despite the same SPL as headphones. Studies suggest that with training the differences aren't there and a simple, non exaggerated time-delay will remedy it as well, IMO as long as the bass has the outmost extension, bass doesn't need to be boosted much. The people that didn't understand the 6db phenomenon shouldn't have taken a stab at Rin's writing and should've looked into the matter instead. 

 

The article does seem to suggest there is an attempt at compromising a reference response with a consumer sound, I don't think Rin expected it to be an utmost reference level IEM, but things that are blantanly flawed are going to be exposed by him.

 

"affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM" Is that not the truth? The positive review is advertising the IEM and it was released in conjunction with the article, does that mean you got paid to say such things? No, but I do feel there was an inevitable bias, but bias/subjective aspects in personal reviews are inevitable, no biggie IMO, just something to note

 

It's still a nice product guys (I said it's the best midhighs/treble in a dynamic IEM in another thread), but lets not get carried away. 


Edited by Inks - 11/11/12 at 9:09pm
post #126 of 232
Here we go. rolleyes.gif
post #127 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

  6db? The MH1 has a 10db+ bass boost based on his DF standards, I think you're confusing it with the 6db phenomenon where loudspeakers seem to have 6db more in lower regions despite the same SPL as headphones. Studies suggest that with training the differences aren't there and a simple, non exaggerated time-delay will remedy it as well, IMO as long as the bass has the outmost extension, bass doesn't need to be boosted much. The people that didn't understand the 6db phenomenon shouldn't have taken a stab at Rin's writing and should've looked into the matter instead. 

 

The article does seem to suggest there is an attempt at compromising a reference response with a consumer sound, I don't think Rin expected it to be an utmost reference level IEM, but things that are blantanly flawed are going to be exposed by him.

 

"affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM" Is that not the truth? The positive review is advertising the IEM and it was released in conjunction with the article, does that mean you got paid to say such things? No, but I do feel there was an inevitable bias, but bias/subjective aspects in personal reviews are inevitable, no biggie IMO, just something to note

 

It's still a nice product guys (I said it's the best midhighs/treble in a dynamic IEM in another thread), but lets not get carried away. 

 

You and Rin have a very different understanding of the word "affiliated" from everybody else

post #128 of 232

 

"affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM" Is that not the truth? The positive review is advertising the IEM and it was released in conjunction with the article, does that mean you got paid to say such things? No, but I do feel there was an inevitable bias, but bias/subjective aspects in personal reviews are inevitable, no biggie IMO, just something to note

 

It's still a nice product guys (I said it's the best midhighs/treble in a dynamic IEM), but lets not get carried away. 

Do you really think that Sony Mobile (or Sony Ericsson, who originally developed the IEM) need to use an audiophile's blog to sell their product? Rim must be smoking some good stuff if he thinks that. The MH1 (not MH1c) was released some time ago, they were bundling the IEM with their phones if I recall correctly and selling it relatively cheap  (80 bucks I believe) I find strange that many obscure hi fi brands that sell their super n-drivers setups for hundreds if not thousands of dollars not needing to do that, you know, because everybody will spend that kind of money on a earphone. 

post #129 of 232
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

  6db? The MH1 has a 10db+ bass boost based on his DF standards, I think you're confusing it with the 6db phenomenon where loudspeakers seem to have 6db more in lower regions despite the same SPL as headphones. Studies suggest that with training the differences aren't there and a simple, non exaggerated time-delay will remedy it as well, IMO as long as the bass has the outmost extension, bass doesn't need to be boosted much. The people that didn't understand the 6db phenomenon shouldn't have taken a stab at Rin's writing and should've looked into the matter instead. 

The article does seem to suggest there is an attempt at compromising a reference response with a consumer sound, I don't think Rin expected it to be an utmost reference level IEM, but things that are blantanly flawed are going to be exposed by him.

"affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM" Is that not the truth? The positive review is advertising the IEM and it was released in conjunction with the article, does that mean you got paid to say such things? No, but I do feel there was an inevitable bias, but bias/subjective aspects in personal reviews are inevitable, no biggie IMO, just something to note

It's still a nice product guys (I said it's the best midhighs/treble in a dynamic IEM in another thread), but lets not get carried away. 

I was commenting about the 6dB theory Rin is talking about in his blog in general. Whether it is 6dB or 60dB, it is not that centre of the discussion. The point is, must every IEM be ruler flat in bass response? That seems to be the direction of his IEM review in general, and also the centre of his criticism toward Golden Ears reference FR curve. Anyway, as I have said, I have no problem with that part whatsoever. I like my ER4S as well as my T-PEOS H-100 and don't see why they can't coexist in the same universe. If RIn finds MH1C to be too bassy, that's okay as well. I like bassy IEM sometime and need not concern for Rin approval. Again, I will repeat the Rin has good ground for his opinion, but it is not necessary one that I will agree in all occasion - then again, I don't call other shill for liking / voicing for IEM that I don't enjoy a bit (W3 for an example).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

You and Rin have a very different understanding of the word "affiliated" from everybody else

This^
Edited by ClieOS - 11/11/12 at 9:25pm
post #130 of 232

af·fil·i·ate  (schwa.gif-fibreve.giflprime.gifemacr.gif-amacr.giftlprime.gif)

v. af·fil·i·at·ed, af·fil·i·at·ing, af·fil·i·ates
v.tr.
1. To adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch: The HMO affiliated the clinics last year.
2. To associate (oneself) as a subordinate, subsidiary, employee, or member: affiliated herself with a new law firm.
3. To assign the origin of.
v.intr.
To become closely connected or associated: The two unions voted to affiliate.
n. (-emacr.gif-ibreve.gift, -amacr.giftlprime.gif)
A person, organization, or establishment associated with another as a subordinate, subsidiary, or member: network affiliates.
 
 
So are you suggesting that ClieOS's blog is practically owned by Sony Mobile?  Coz that's what the word "affiliated" means
 
FYI I fell out of my chair laughing when I saw that word on Rin's blog
post #131 of 232

so much at once lol. 

Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
I was commenting about the 6dB theory Rin is talking about in his blog in general. Whether it is 6dB or 60dB, it is not that centre of the discussion. The point is, must every IEM be ruler flat in bass response? That seems to be the direction of his IEM review in general, and also the centre of his criticism toward Golden Ears reference FR curve. Anyway, as I have said, I have no problem with that part whatsoever. I like my ER4S as well as my T-PEOS H-100 and don't see why they can't coexist in the same universe. If RIn finds MH1C to be too bassy, that's okay as well. I like bassy IEM sometime and need not concern for Rin approval. Again, I will repeat the Rin has good ground for his opinion, but it is not necessary one that I will agree in all occasion - then again, I don't call other shill for liking / voicing for IEM that I don't enjoy a bit (W3 for an example).
This^

No, he doesn't always look for a ruler flat response in absolute terms, it's not that simple., why does he hold the GR07 as the best dynamic IEM then (higher than MC5 and EX1000)? It's a reference to go by, just don't stray to far and have great bandwidth, low THD and good transients and you got a winner. Again, I think Rin just means that your association with the engineer is of suspicion after the positive review, just plain skepticism. 

post #132 of 232
Originally Posted by sinquito View Post

Man why do you take Rin's (who I don't know who is besides the fact that he has his own blog with fancy graphs) words as absolute truth? I have seen that in many threads you like to trash iems just based on Rin's opinion, why are you being so fanatical about it? Maybe you could enlight me why Rin's opinion is so goddam important to you, is he some sort of engineer who works for etymotics or westone? I am a nobody here on Head-fi but still I find strange that you take Rin's word over one of the designers of the iem in question (Sead). I am starting to studying electronic engineering so with some hope I will be able to understand a bit more on what the graphs and technical words means in Rin's blog, but you most know that in the end the mesurements can only tell you so much when you hear something and you know you like it. I don't want to be rude, because I don't know you and even if I did I understand that everyone is entitled to have his own opinion.

 Rin's criticism are based on evidence I am in agreement with, not so much a personal backing of him (though he's a good friend) but for what he is standing for and the evidence. I learned a lot from him and stuff he's referred me to. We do share the same ideas in headphone tuning, but we differ in how critique certain tuning characteristics, some things that are important to him aren't as much to me at times (vice-versa)[our headphone ranking will likely differ too]. I'm not as harsh as he is on the MH1 though all his criticisms I am in conjunction with.  Rin isn't an engineer and doesn't limit himself to being one but keeps up with the latest studies done in headphone related stuff,. He critiques based on the knowledge he's gained, he's going to attend ALMA to expand his knowledge and is open to new things. 


Edited by Inks - 11/11/12 at 9:35pm
post #133 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post
1. To adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch: The HMO affiliated the clinics last year.
 

ClieOS accepted Sead as a member of his blog for the article, I think that brings about some bias. Let's not exaggerate or turn things around. Should readers just ignore ClieOS review as a result? No, the MH1 certain does things budget IEMs can only dream of, but that doesn't mean things are to be overlooked. 


Edited by Inks - 11/11/12 at 9:32pm
post #134 of 232

And again: why does Rin's article make the MH1C out to be trash when his own measurements actually make them out to be "pretty good minus the bass" as you put it?  Why does he pan the MH1C for its poor HF response in the deep insertion condition when it is obvious from his own data at the end that these were tuned for the more comfortable shallow insertion condition (and more successfully in the treble frequencies than any set Rin measured bar none as far as I can see)?  Why is this engineering feat relegated to a footnote?  Why put a designed-in bass boost in the spotlight as the sore point when it can be easily EQed out with a primitive 5-band equalizer, and when Sony has tackled the problem with high frequency peaks in the shallow insertion condition--which usually requires a level of parametric EQ not available on any mobile player to correct and even then is sensitive to small changes in fit?  Objectively speaking which is the more newsworthy item?


Edited by Joe Bloggs - 11/11/12 at 9:37pm
post #135 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

ClieOS accepted Sead as a member of his blog for the article, I think that brings about some bias. Let's not exaggerate or turn things around. Should readers just ignore ClieOS review as a result? No, the MH1 certain does things budget IEMs can only dream of, but that doesn't mean things are to be overlooked. 

 

I think it's obvious that Rin's wording in the article would be read the other way round, that ClieOS was taken in as a member of Sony Mobile.  If you called somebody a thief when you thought the word "thief" meant "a really nice guy" that doesn't mean you don't need to retract your statement.  If Rin is suspicious of ClieOS's objectivity in light of his cooperation with Sead he needs to put it in words that correctly reflect his level of suspicion, not a word that calls ClieOS a Sony employee.

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