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The T50RP Paradox | reviews, discussion, & mini-tour impressions (index in second post) - Page 7

post #91 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by remilio View Post

Sorry, I can't say anything about Shures or stock T50RP's, because I didn't listen them. I think schiit stack is ok, but I'm pretty sure that my future Anedio D2 will be BIG improvement over it (damn russian post - too slow :(( )

I'm looking forward to see how the Anedio works out for you!

post #92 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislangley4253 View Post

I'll be using the ODAC and O2 and foobar2k playing mostly flac.


Sound Impressions

Firstly, I wanted to like the paradox, I really did. I wanted to like them enough to buy a pair and maybe even dethrone my magnums or at least sit along side them. Keep this in mind, I was absolutely NOT expecting what I heard. Also, I don't believe in listening to a set for an extended period of time. I think initial impressions are the best impressions. I listened back and forth to the paradox and magnums for a couple hours and the following is my impression of that time.  I'm also just a guy that enjoys listening to music. I'm not a sound engineer, I'm a 20 year old music addict. However, my ears have gotten pretty good at listening and I've been in this hobby pretty hard for the past 2 or so years.


At first, I was really impressed by their sound for a closed headphone, and I guess I still am (although they don't isolate very well. The Koss DJ100 beats them, I directly compared the two.). They sound great for being a set of t50rp's, no doubt about that.. And they hang with the magnums on detail and extension . But, that is where the similarities end. There are a lot of problems with the Paradox sound to my ears.

The main problem for me was the high end. Basically, I felt they sounded unnatural and kinda wonky.. Actually, I listened to a few percussion only tracks and it all sounded fake or programmed. It did not sound like someone playing a drumset. I much preferred the magnums for these tracks. The highs were a little more prominent on the Paradox, but not much. The detail was similar, but they just sounded wrong. I can't describe it, but I didn't like it at all. Cymbals didn't sound like cymbals, something I kinda hope for in a set of cans.


The Paradox definitely has less bass than the magnums. Now, I don't think this is inherently a bad thing, I recognize the magnums are colored and I'm totally okay with a neutral bass response.. But, it really felt the paradox were lacking a bit even for a "neutral" set of cans. I had problems making out the details in the low end on some tracks, they were just buried under the mids and highs it seemed. I had to really crank up the volume to hear some of the lower stringed instruments and I  didn't like that. I will say the bass hump on the magnums is a bit more noticeable when compared to the paradox, but I don't think the paradox is quite -right- either. Maybe some EQ could help remedy this, I didn't really care to mess with it though. I knew I wasn't interested in the cans after the issues with the highs not sounding right. I might be tempted to mess around with EQ'ing the bass down a notch on the magnums though.

Chris, Thanks for sharing your impressions. I had a chance to hear PreProMan's Paradox headphones at one of our area headphone meets. From the perspective of an earlier Blue Monkey Flyer mod, the Paradox, the bass of the Paradox flavor was more apparent than my BMF mod that I was running at the time. My BMF was more neutral, thus, one would have to be very careful with the type of music that they paired it with, and in doing so, that would avoid them from having disappointment. Needless to say, many comparisons were made and, to my ears, I really enjoyed the Paradox headphones.

A few weeks ago, I then moved on a pair of Koss Tony Bennett Signature Editions - based on the Koss DJ100 series. I've heard how the TB series is essentially just the DJ100 headphone, but dressed up a bit with a case, etching on the metal cups, etc. I put some hours on them and had a hard time liking what i was hearing. To me, they had the least amount of bass of any of my current headphones. So, I wonder about the TB version, now, based on your impressions. I wonder if it is different than the DJ100 from Koss and might be a "bass-lite" version? The TB version has been returned to the place of purchase since i couldn't deal with it and how it sounded. I'm now wondering if i shouldn't go for a pair of DJ100s instead and give them a quick try.

Meanwhile, keep the Paradox reviews coming. I'm a Fostex junkie and love to hear how people interpret that various mods that are available out there. Enjoy!
post #93 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neogeo333 View Post

I heard that Luis seals them with helium and put on shims to balance the sound, who knows, maybe he takes them to a priest to be bless?  I just enjoy them over all my other cans. 

The helium would surely explain the airiness. It would make cups virtually bigger on inside.
post #94 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post


Chris, Thanks for sharing your impressions. I had a chance to hear PreProMan's Paradox headphones at one of our area headphone meets. From the perspective of an earlier Blue Monkey Flyer mod, the Paradox, the bass of the Paradox flavor was more apparent than my BMF mod that I was running at the time. My BMF was more neutral, thus, one would have to be very careful with the type of music that they paired it with, and in doing so, that would avoid them from having disappointment. Needless to say, many comparisons were made and, to my ears, I really enjoyed the Paradox headphones.
A few weeks ago, I then moved on a pair of Koss Tony Bennett Signature Editions - based on the Koss DJ100 series. I've heard how the TB series is essentially just the DJ100 headphone, but dressed up a bit with a case, etching on the metal cups, etc. I put some hours on them and had a hard time liking what i was hearing. To me, they had the least amount of bass of any of my current headphones. So, I wonder about the TB version, now, based on your impressions. I wonder if it is different than the DJ100 from Koss and might be a "bass-lite" version? The TB version has been returned to the place of purchase since i couldn't deal with it and how it sounded. I'm now wondering if i shouldn't go for a pair of DJ100s instead and give them a quick try.
Meanwhile, keep the Paradox reviews coming. I'm a Fostex junkie and love to hear how people interpret that various mods that are available out there. Enjoy!

Wait, what?!??  DJ100 with less bass than the Paradox?  I am going to have to disagree on that one, both to my ears and to the various graphs I've seen.

post #95 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrabike View Post

 

Relative to the Magnums, the Paradox lack bass impact, because the Magnums emphasize bass at the expense of the mid-range. Furthermore, the Magnums (and Grado like cans in general) lack bass extension. It is probably a limitation of the Magnum/Grado drivers, which is indeed troubling to some. Seems to me your like moar mid-bass biggrin.gif

Yeah, you are right. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

Magnum/Grado drivers will reach xmax (click pop click pop) with the right combination of bass tones are played at moderately high-ish volumes. Trust me on this. It's something that you do not want to do.

 

In addition, if one actually thinks they are actually hearing 25Hz or 30Hz tones on those drivers, they are in reality hearing distortion - that is more of the 2nd harmonics at 50hz and 60Hz.

 

Good to know :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post


Chris, Thanks for sharing your impressions. I had a chance to hear PreProMan's Paradox headphones at one of our area headphone meets. From the perspective of an earlier Blue Monkey Flyer mod, the Paradox, the bass of the Paradox flavor was more apparent than my BMF mod that I was running at the time. My BMF was more neutral, thus, one would have to be very careful with the type of music that they paired it with, and in doing so, that would avoid them from having disappointment. Needless to say, many comparisons were made and, to my ears, I really enjoyed the Paradox headphones.
A few weeks ago, I then moved on a pair of Koss Tony Bennett Signature Editions - based on the Koss DJ100 series. I've heard how the TB series is essentially just the DJ100 headphone, but dressed up a bit with a case, etching on the metal cups, etc. I put some hours on them and had a hard time liking what i was hearing. To me, they had the least amount of bass of any of my current headphones. So, I wonder about the TB version, now, based on your impressions. I wonder if it is different than the DJ100 from Koss and might be a "bass-lite" version? The TB version has been returned to the place of purchase since i couldn't deal with it and how it sounded. I'm now wondering if i shouldn't go for a pair of DJ100s instead and give them a quick try.
Meanwhile, keep the Paradox reviews coming. I'm a Fostex junkie and love to hear how people interpret that various mods that are available out there. Enjoy!

 

Uhhhh, The DJ100 are certainly more bassy than either my magnums or the paradox. Those things are pretty damn bassy. I'm thinking yours were either underpowered (although even off a clip, they are decently powered and bassy) or defective. Or, like you said.. maybe there is a difference between the TB and DJ100, but it sure doesn't look like it from the outside. They would have to be very differently tuned or different drivers altogether than the dj100 to sound "bass-lite".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxid10t View Post

Wait, what?!??  DJ100 with less bass than the Paradox?  I am going to have to disagree on that one, both to my ears and to the various graphs I've seen.

Yup, yup. Something fishy is going on :)

post #96 of 730

For anyone that is curious, the TB and DJ100 should be the same. I have the TB and have owned about 7 DJ100s(!!). The only difference is that internally the TB has a bunch of holes inside the cup that go straight to the aluminum. The DJ100 (on my pair) do not have this. I doubt this could alter the sound, but it's possible. Maybe both are now drilled this way.

 

LFF's explanation of bass accuracy is the best thing I've read here in awhile. Not enough people mention things like this. Maybe this is why my Q701 can magically alternate between sounding like an HD-650 and AD700 depending on the recording biggrin.gif. I do find the DJ100's bass slightly above neutral. They don't have much of a mid-bass hump to me. Maybe a small one, but not like the MDR-V6! Maybe 5% less than my white boxed M50 when you remove the foam backing. A poor seal with stock pads can reduce the bass. For me it's easily to have the stock pads not fully cover my ears. I tested the low-bass extension and it's actually better than specified. Sometime I need to bribe someone to measure them with M50 pads. KRK KNS-8400 and DJ100 (both labeled as bass light to many) actually seem to have better low bass extension than my HD-600/Q701, but I guess that's not saying much..

 

Sorry to derail this thread. Sometime i'd like to hear one of those modded T50RPs. I spent maybe 20+ hours modding a pair and never got anywhere. It's in a landfill somewhere. It got so bad I even stripped the screws. I think my pair was defective. At times I got little glimpses of how good it could sound.

 

BTW the headroom graphs do seem to show that the TB has more bass, but I think this is some weird variation. Oh and I can't hear that massive drop off at the end thankfully biggrin.gif If it even exists..


Edited by tdockweiler - 11/7/12 at 8:25pm
post #97 of 730

So uh, I've got the Paradox back on my head... I started up Dark Side Of The Moon and, yeah. smily_headphones1.gif  I, uh.. I might have to alter my opinion of these.

Gonna just sit down and listen to a few full albums and only the Paradox for a while. I don't think I gave them a fair shot. I will say, they are doing damn good with this album. 

 

Warning: A rather long list of the albums I listened to the past few days (Click to show)

 

1. Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (FLAC)

2. The Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (V0)
3. Toadies - Rubberneck (V0)

4. The Beatles - Sgt. Peppers... (2009 Stereo Remaster) (FLAC)

5. Drexciya - Journey Of The Deep Sea Dweller I (V0) (some really good, really underground, roots electronic)

6. Rusko - Babylon: Volume 1 (V0)
7. http://audiotree.tv/session/la-dispute/

8. http://audiotree.tv/session/listener/

9. Outkast - ATLiens (FLAC)
10. The Dillinger Escape Plan - Option Paralysis (V0)
11. Explosions In The Sky - The Earth Is Not A Cold Dead Place(FLAC)
12. Weezer - Pinkerton (V0)
13. Open Your Ears (Headphone test compilation for head-fi by HDtracks) (v0) (yeah, I deleted my FLAC copy on accident)

14. Sigur Ros - Agaetis Byrjun (V0)
15. Ricky Eat Acid - april (320) - http://rickyeatacid.bandcamp.com/album/april

16. A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory (FLAC)
17. Spraynard - Funtitled (FLAC) - http://spraynard.bandcamp.com/album/funtitled

18. Spraynard - Exton Square (V2)

19. Minus The Bear - OMNI (V0)
20. MGMT - Oracular Spectacular (V0)
21. At the Drive-In - Relationship of Command (FLAC)

22. Touche Amore - Parting the Sea Between Brightness and Me (V0)
23. Rasputina - A Radical Recital (320) (An awesome live album)
24. BADBADNOTGOOD - BBNG2 (FLAC) http://badbadnotgood.com/ (super good stuff guys)
25. Happy Body Slow Brain - Dreams Of Water (VBR)

26. Minus The Bear - Infinity Overhead (FLAC)
27. Oh Look Out - Orchestrated Fuzz (320) http://ohlookout.bandcamp.com/ (looooo-fi)
28. Death Grips - NO LOVE DEEP WEB (320) http://thirdworlds.net/main/index2.html (nsfw)
29. Infected Mushroom - Army of Mushrooms (320)
30. The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Axis: Bold As Love (V0)
31. Talking Heads - Speaking In Tongues (FLAC)
32. A mix CD
33. Childish Gambino - Camp (FLAC)
34. Modest Mouse - The Lonesome Crowded West (FLAC)
35. Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation (V0)
36. Violent Femmes - Violent Femmes (FLAC) (funny story here, I've been listening to a v0 copy for.. hell, years. After a few minutes with the Paradox, I was picking up all kinds of static and distortion. My friend shared a flac copy with me.. It made a world of difference. Note - I'm not saying the difference was between v0 and flac. I'm saying the v0 copy was poorly encoded, which happened a lot back in the day. I find this problem from time to time with older mp3's)
37. Circa Survive - Blue Sky Noise (FLAC)
38. Neil Young - After The Gold Rush (FLAC)
39. Foo Fighters - In Your Honor (Discs 1&2) (FLAC)
40. The Mars Volta - Amputechture (V0)

41. Puscifer - V is for Vagina (V0)
42. Puscifer - "C" Is for (Please Insert Sophomoric Genitalia Reference Here) E.P. (V0)
43. Tool - Undertow (FLAC)
44. Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (FLAC)

(Obviously, I've listened to quite a few single songs off various albums and from various artists in between these albums)

 

GAH! Head-fi ate my review.. I think I'll type it up in a word processor and post it this time!

 

 

 

I definitely feel I have listened to these headphones more than enough to post accurate impressions. Where to start?

Well, first off the mids and the bass. The bass is incredibly on point, these headphones have the best low-end I have ever experienced in a headphone. It is very well extended and just chock full of detail. I definitely noticed lots of new details in the low end of several albums I listened to. I can’t think of anything to complain about as far as the bass is concerned. They are nothing but superb in this field.

The mids are gorgeous. Very accurate, very natural, very detailed.. Just, everything they should be and nothing else. Again, I can’t think of anything to complain about, which isn’t surprising (orthos are known for their mids, after all).

The highs are very detailed (but not in a bad way, at all). They are very fast (the headphone itself is very fast in general. It feels almost electrostatic in that respect). They are never strident (unless the recording is strident). They never ever get in the way or draw excess attention to themselves. The highs are very much in line, for a lack of better words. However, I find myself feeling like the highs are almost too laid back sometimes. I wouldn’t call them smooth, because smooth implies coloration to me. They definitely don’t seem colored at all. It’s just that occasionally they feel a little overshadowed by the mids and lows of the music (this could be due to the recording). Also, sometimes they sound quite artificial; once again, I think this depends on the recording. If I was going to complain about anything on these headphones it would be the highs and I’m not even very comfortable doing that. I have a very hard time describing how they disappoint me. All in all, there is more positive to say about the high end then there is negative. Like the rest of the headphone, they feel very true to the music and very cohesive. Just.. a little unnatural sometimes. Particularly in busy sections of the music.

Soundstage isn’t a big deal to me. I will say these headphones do surprisingly well for a closed headphone. They don’t really sound closed. They don’t image as well as something like a sennheiser, but they aren’t terrible either. No headphone that I have heard compares to speakers, so I feel it’s all kinda nil and void. A poor soundstage has never taken away from my headphone listening experience. They do have that interesting "wall of sound" feel that people describe orthos as having. I like it, but it's a bit different than a dynamic headphone.

The isolation is okay. Nothing fantastic.. They do a much better job than my magnums, but not as good of a job as the Koss DJ100. I like the little bit of isolation though. They also don't leak much at all, that is a big improvement over my magnums. My mom can hear those in her bedroom from my room when I'm really jammin.

Unfortunately, a lot of music just isn’t recorded or mastered well. The Paradox doesn’t throw this in your face, but it doesn’t make any effort to hide it either. They are just very honest to the music. I would recommend them to anyone wanting accurate, neutral, detailed headphone. I plan to pick up a pair of t50rp very soon and to try my hand at modding them. If I can’t get my own pair sounding the way I want eventually, I wouldn’t hesitate to order a pair from LFF. He truly brings out the best qualities of the headphone (the mids and lows) while keeping the highs in line. I think that is really the main goal of any orthodynamic headphone.

 

So, there you have it folks. Feel free to ask any questions. I’m very confident in my impressions.


Edited by chrislangley4253 - 11/14/12 at 3:04pm
post #98 of 730
Thread Starter 

Two things..

 

-A proper seal with the earpads is extremely important (especially for the bass).

-Ensure the pads aren't too flattened before wearing & listening.  LFF mentioned that when Tyll got his hands on these for measurements, they were awful.  Turns out the pads were too flat.  LFF recommended to let the pads resume their normal shape and suppleness after a couple of days.. Tyll remeasured and.. well, that speaks for itself.  I should've included some kind of spacer to keep the cups from curling into each other.  If they look a bit crushed, get the phones on a stand and let the pads 'fill out' to their normal thickness.


Edited by FlySweep - 11/8/12 at 3:15pm
post #99 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post

Two things..

 

-A proper seal with the earpads is extremely important (especially for the bass).

-Ensure the pads aren't too flattened before wearing & listening.  LFF mentioned that when Tyll got his hands on these for measurements, they were awful.  Turns out the pads were too flat.  LFF recommended to let the pads resume their normal shape and suppleness after a couple of days.. Tyll remeasured and.. well, that speaks for itself.  I should've included some kind of spacer to keep the cups from curling into each other.  If they look a bit crushed, get the phones on a stand and let the pads 'fill out' to their normal thickness.

maybe... that was my problem initially. 

Did you notice that the two pads are different? the right one has a stiffer material on the inside and is just stiffer in general. This is causing the left side to be a bit closer to my ear (not very much at all though, I can't pick up on the difference by listening). Actually, it is the left pad with the stiffer, vinyl-like material, but that pad is also the one laying flatter on my head. Kinda weird. The other one must have a bit more stuffing or something.

I don't really see how sitting them on a stand could keep the pads from crushing each other, but I did figure out a way to keep the pads from touching. Maybe I'll post a pic when I get back from the library.

 

After looking in the mirror, I don't really think either of them is sitting further off my head. My left ear must stick out a bit more than my right :P


Edited by chrislangley4253 - 11/8/12 at 4:47pm
post #100 of 730

It's been a while since I checked this thread, but here are some overdue replies.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Questhate View Post

Comfort on both are superb, with me preferring the Paradox because of the cushy pads. The Lambdas have weirdly-shaped pads that don't fully enclose my ears the way the Paradox does. Both of them have a suspension headband, so they feel fairly weightless when worn. The stock T50RP with the rubber headband isn't nearly as comfortable.

 

Lambdas win out in soundstage for the virtue of being open-backed, but the Paradox sounds surprisingly open for a closed headphone. It's been a while since I heard the Lambdas, but I'd give them the edge in imaging, but the presentations are different. The Lambdas are supremely airy and spacious, while the Paradox have a denser, more liquid presentation characteristic of all orthos (I think I saw someone earlier mention it as a "wall of sound" effect). 

 

I believe the Lambdas I heard were the standard bias ones, which were the only pair I heard. 

 

I was driving the Lambdas with vintage receivers I had at the time, mostly a Marantz 2230 which is on the warm side. The low-bass roll-off and the characteristic impotence of e-stat bass probably contributes to the Lambdas perceived brightness. I do find the Magnums brighter though due to the peaky treble.

 

I appreciate the impressions. I might consider giving the Paradox a chance, but when they cost as much as a used SR-Lambda set, it's a tough call between something I know I like and something relatively unknown. It does seem like I'd enjoy them overall for music, though. (Not sure about gaming due to the smaller soundstage, but I'm sure it's not as bad as some closed headphones.)

 

Speaking of powering them with old receivers, my setup is an old Onkyo TX-SV515PRO -> SRD-7/SB -> SR-Lambda. Granted, it's more 1980s than 1970s, but I can't use my stepfather's Sansui 8080DB because he's a bit too sentimental about that bit of hardware, even if it's boxed up and sitting unused in a closet. I don't know what their sound signatures are without having any other receivers or Stax amps to compare with, though...

 

All I do know is that while I don't like the sheer bulk of an A/V receiver on my computer desk just to act as a headphone amp, it still sounds nice.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxid10t View Post

I disagree about the imaging.  I never found the Lambda to have great imaging for an open headphone.  It was weird, it was like each instrument was a very wide pinpoint.  Kind of hard to describe, but each instrument was too diffuse to really call it a strong suit.  It also had a very wide soundstage, but the depth had a lot to be desired.  Sennheiser's audiophile range excels at depth, so that probably doesn't help.

 

I admit that I haven't heard too many headphones (certainly no Sennheisers), but I wouldn't keep the Lambda if it wasn't great at imaging to my ears.

 

Note that I'm not talking about listening to music mixed with stereo speakers in mind when discussing soundstage and imaging. I'm talking about gaming with CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, or similar binaural mixing tech where you want it to be so accurate that you can practically shoot someone through a wall just by listening to his footsteps. That's what's important to me in a headphone's presentation.

 

With that tech, the Lambda presents front and rear quite distinctly, and I can just about figure out where people are located not on just a 12-point clock scale, but a 360-degree scale with startling precision. It was like the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700, but better on absolutely every level.

 

Now, if we're talking headphones that have no depth to their soundstage, even with binaural mixes, that's something that better describes something like the Philips CitiScape Uptown. Even my vintage Sansui SS-20 has better front/rear distinction, and that's also completely closed!

post #101 of 730
Thread Starter 

I hope we get some comparisons to the ESP-950.  Aside from the lack of extension at both ends of the Koss e-stat, it sounds like an intriguing phone I'd like to hear someday.

post #102 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

It was like the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700

Well, there is the problem.  I don't think I am the only one who has complained about this.  Really diffuse imaging, which is why I prefer Sennheisers in general.  Slightly smaller soundstage, much more DEFINED imaging.

post #103 of 730

Alright guys,

I went through and added notes to basically everything I said based off my initial impressions. If you are curious how my opinion has changed, you might wanna check out all my older posts. I pretty much directly contradict myself.. It might be fun to read :P

If you want to read my new impressions, keep an eye on post #100.

post #104 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxid10t View Post

Well, there is the problem.  I don't think I am the only one who has complained about this.  Really diffuse imaging, which is why I prefer Sennheisers in general. Slightly smaller soundstage, much more DEFINED imaging.

 

Well, keep in mind that the AD700 is one of the few popular headphones here that I have actually heard and thus can easily compare to.

 

I could just go out and buy a PC360 or HD595 or HD650 or whatever dynamic headphone people really like here just to review for comparison's sake, but I have this feeling that I'm just going to turn around and sell them all after I'm done reviewing because I won't like them as much as a primary headphone. Not worth the hassle or the wallet hit; developing a taste for Stax has already done tremendous financial damage.

post #105 of 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislangley4253 View Post

Alright guys,

I went through and added notes to basically everything I said based off my initial impressions. If you are curious how my opinion has changed, you might wanna check out all my older posts. I pretty much directly contradict myself.. It might be fun to read :P

If you want to read my new impressions, keep an eye on post #100.

 

Don't worry about it. Your impressions may change more. Or they could change less. Or they could change over time - as in several years. Practically all the guys I know who like flat / neutralish sounding headphones loved Grados at one point in their lives. You are probably suffering what is known as Grado withdrawl. Without Grados, everything sounds a less exciting, a less punchy, less fun, etc. Over time, you may start to appreciate the understated qualities of flat / neutral headphones. You may even sell of your Grados, or keep one for occasional listening.

 

(Magnums are like advanced refined Grados, but still very Grado.) The Magnums you have are very unique though. Possibly more articulate, zingy, detailed, and textured (all Grado strong suits) than the Paradox, but the Paradox is much more accurate with better true frequency extension at both ends.


Edited by purrin - 11/9/12 at 4:14pm
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