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HD800 vs HE500 - Page 57

post #841 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasyrkh View Post


Where did you listen the he500? From the nad's heaphone out?
Rembemer that those amps have high impedance output.
He500 needs very low impedance output to not sound muddy in the bass region.

 No, I haven't heard them out of vintage amps at all. But most vintage fans prefer to use planars than normal dynamics. Can't argue with the likes of Skylab! 

post #842 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

 No, I haven't heard them out of vintage amps at all. But most vintage fans prefer to use planars than normal dynamics. Can't argue with the likes of Skylab! 
They can sound good, but directly from speaker output,not hpout if this has high impedance. Obviously it is true for every stereo integrated amp,not only vintage.
Instead the cdplayer output is usually low impedance
post #843 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasyrkh View Post


They can sound good, but directly from speaker output,not hpout if this has high impedance. Obviously it is true for every stereo integrated amp,not only vintage.
Instead the cdplayer output is usually low impedance

I hear what you are saying and on paper it makes sense. But planars aren't affected by impedance curves like normal dynamics. Also, impedance matching and its effects ime are vastly over exaggerated. I know I will never use another hp amp with the HD800 for e.g. And they are a very sensitive headphone even though they are 300 ohm. Same with the K701 (62 ohm) feeding them 120 ohm hp output and they come alive! Full and tight bass - smooth highs. They sound 'right'. Pair the AKG's with a 0ohm hp amp and they sound flat and boring.. harsh and bassless. Impedance is only one of many variables. The 62 ohm AKG's are harder to drive than both the 300 ohm HD800 and HD600. Crazy but true! 

 

If Skylab (reviewer of many high end amps and headphones) uses the HP out of his vintage Pioneer receiver for his HE6... and LCD3 Then you know its not going to sound bad.      

post #844 of 1025

Just one man's opinion (mine). But I think the HE-500 curb stomps the HD650. I owned them both at the same time and this was just off the Lyr. Assuming the HD650 and HD600 are comparable sonic quality then I think the same applies. The HE-500 have improved even more with the Emotiva compared to my Lyr days so I'm assuming the gap is even bigger now. On regular weaker amps, like the Fiio E9 / Magni or Asgard the HE-500 isn't all that impressive. It comes off as slightly better than the HD650, but by not much.


Edited by M-13 - 1/16/14 at 2:12pm
post #845 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post
 

I hear what you are saying and on paper it makes sense. But planars aren't affected by impedance curves like normal dynamics. Also, impedance matching and its effects ime are vastly over exaggerated. I know I will never use another hp amp with the HD800 for e.g. And they are a very sensitive headphone even though they are 300 ohm. Same with the K701 (62 ohm) feeding them 120 ohm hp output and they come alive! Full and tight bass - smooth highs. They sound 'right'. Pair the AKG's with a 0ohm hp amp and they sound flat and boring.. harsh and bassless. Impedance is only one of many variables. The 62 ohm AKG's are harder to drive than both the 300 ohm HD800 and HD600. Crazy but true! 

 

If Skylab (reviewer of many high end amps and headphones) uses the HP out of his vintage Pioneer receiver for his HE6... and LCD3 Then you know its not going to sound bad.      

 

planar aren't affected? I don't think so...obviously it depends on the amp, they are not all  the same even if output impedance is the same...still, I tried this directly from my Yaoin 300b.

through the headphone jack (400ohm) and through speaker out with a self made resistor (with a switch for low:less than 10ohm, and high: about 120ohm)...the difference is obvious, maybe not so obvious like for other cans, but still quite obvious...

less dynamics overall, more bass, slightly less control, more warmth.

 

The problem is that some HP can benefit from this mismatch due to their dry/basslight signature....so many would prefer a "mismatched" HP, like K701


Edited by Blasyrkh - 1/16/14 at 6:52pm
post #846 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasyrkh View Post
 

 

planar aren't affected? I don't think so...obviously it depends on the amp, they are not all  the same even if output impedance is the same...still, I tried this directly from my Yaoin 300b.

through the headphone jack (400ohm) and through speaker out with a self made resistor (with a switch for low:less than 10ohm, and high: about 120ohm)...the difference is obvious, maybe not so obvious like for other cans, but still quite obvious...

less dynamics overall, more bass, slightly less control, more warmth.

 

The problem is that some HP can benefit from this mismatch due to their dry/basslight signature....so many would prefer a "mismatched" HP, like K701

Yeah I meant aren't as affected as much as normal dynamics :) You are probably right with the K701 as they do turn a boring headphone into something very special. 

 

But as always my friend its down to our ears. Thats not a cop out on my behalf with this, as it is a good argument and one that we've discussed at length on the vintage thread. But It always ends up in tears haha 

post #847 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

Just one man's opinion (mine). But I think the HE-500 curb stomps the HD650. I owned them both at the same time and this was just off the Lyr. Assuming the HD650 and HD600 are comparable sonic quality then I think the same applies. The HE-500 have improved even more with the Emotiva compared to my Lyr days so I'm assuming the gap is even bigger now. On regular weaker amps, like the Fiio E9 / Magni or Asgard the HE-500 isn't all that impressive. It comes off as slightly better than the HD650, but by not much.

The HD600 sounds different from the HD650's. The HD600's are more sensitive (easier to drive) and have a better treble presence. I think if one has an HE-500 they would prefer the HD600 over the HD650.

Have you tried the HE-500 with either the Magni or Asgard? IMO, neither is a weak amp and the HE-500 doesn't require enormous amounts of power like an HE-6 or the like. I have an Asgard2 coming in today and will find out for myself later.

post #848 of 1025

Din, Ding, 'da doorbell ringith....the Asgard2 has arrivith. At first listen the HE-500 sounds pretty darned good with this amp. And no, I do not believe in burning in sold state amps. .....mmm.this sounds awfully good.

post #849 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Din, Ding, 'da doorbell ringith....the Asgard2 has arrivith. At first listen the HE-500 sounds pretty darned good with this amp. And no, I do not believe in burning in sold state amps. .....mmm.this sounds awfully good.

Congrats Stan. I used to have the Asgard 1 paired with the HE500 and thought it sounded really nice. The amp had a lovely tone, smooth mids and a brightly lit - but sweet top end. 

post #850 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

The HD600 sounds different from the HD650's. The HD600's are more sensitive (easier to drive) and have a better treble presence. I think if one has an HE-500 they would prefer the HD600 over the HD650.

Have you tried the HE-500 with either the Magni or Asgard? IMO, neither is a weak amp and the HE-500 doesn't require enormous amounts of power like an HE-6 or the like. I have an Asgard2 coming in today and will find out for myself later.

Of course I've tried the HE-500 from Asgard/Magni. "Required" is a tricky word. It's not required to feed it a lot of power to sound "ok or good enough". But if you drive the HE-500 from speaker taps, it sounds noticeably better, like a lot better, you wouldn't believe better. Haha. So you should give that a try if you can sometime.

 

I've heard the HD600 before. Had it in my home a couple of times. I do prefer it to the HD650 for tonality (more neutral treble), but the HD650 isn't bad, and is not too far off from neutral either, just a little dark. But in terms of technicalities they're about equal and thus I was making the comparison. I prefer making comparisons to gears I've actually owned for a while, not something I've just "auditioned".

 

I think my point was that all the people who say the HD600 = HE500 have heard the HE-500 from budget amps/dacs and definitely not from speaker taps fed by a nice dac. Hell most of them don't even own the HE-500, they just audition it somewhere and say it's not any better. Either that, or they're driving the HE-500 from very expensive tube amps that are built for 300/600 ohm headphones and they also say the HE-500 isn't very great either.


Edited by M-13 - 1/17/14 at 1:42pm
post #851 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

Of course I've tried the HE-500 from Asgard/Magni. "Required" is a tricky word. It's not required to feed it a lot of power to sound "ok or good enough". But if you drive the HE-500 from speaker taps, it sounds noticeably better, like a lot better, you wouldn't believe better. Haha. So you should give that a try if you can sometime.

 

I've heard the HD600 before. Had it in my home a couple of times. I do prefer it to the HD650 for tonality (more neutral treble), but the HD650 isn't bad, and is not too far off from neutral either, just a little dark. But in terms of technicalities they're about equal and thus I was making the comparison. I prefer making comparisons to gears I've actually owned for a while, not something I've just "auditioned".

 

I think my point was that all the people who say the HD600 = HE500 have heard the HE-500 from budget amps/dacs and definitely not from speaker taps fed by a nice dac. Hell most of them don't even own the HE-500, they just audition it somewhere and say it's not any better. Either that, or they're driving the HE-500 from very expensive tube amps that are built for 300/600 ohm headphones and they also say the HE-500 isn't very great either.

 

What about the people who say the HD600 > HE-500?

post #852 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdrm360 View Post
 

 

What about the people who say the HD600 > HE-500?


These are very VERY special people. With insane golden ear and matching golden gear.

post #853 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Din, Ding, 'da doorbell ringith....the Asgard2 has arrivith. At first listen the HE-500 sounds pretty darned good with this amp. And no, I do not believe in burning in sold state amps. .....mmm.this sounds awfully good.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post
 

Congrats Stan. I used to have the Asgard 1 paired with the HE500 and thought it sounded really nice. The amp had a lovely tone, smooth mids and a brightly lit - but sweet top end. 

Thanks, I'm liking it already.

post #854 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post
 

Of course I've tried the HE-500 from Asgard/Magni. "Required" is a tricky word. It's not required to feed it a lot of power to sound "ok or good enough". But if you drive the HE-500 from speaker taps, it sounds noticeably better, like a lot better, you wouldn't believe better. Haha. So you should give that a try if you can sometime.

 

I've heard the HD600 before. Had it in my home a couple of times. I do prefer it to the HD650 for tonality (more neutral treble), but the HD650 isn't bad, and is not too far off from neutral either, just a little dark. But in terms of technicalities they're about equal and thus I was making the comparison. I prefer making comparisons to gears I've actually owned for a while, not something I've just "auditioned".

 

I think my point was that all the people who say the HD600 = HE500 have heard the HE-500 from budget amps/dacs and definitely not from speaker taps fed by a nice dac. Hell most of them don't even own the HE-500, they just audition it somewhere and say it's not any better. Either that, or they're driving the HE-500 from very expensive tube amps that are built for 300/600 ohm headphones and they also say the HE-500 isn't very great either.

I have a 65W RMS per channel vintage Technics receiver and yes, I've put the HE-500's on the taps. Noticeable better than the Asgard2? Not in my book. I heard no distortion, steady state or transient. The FR is right there, the bass was plentiful and proper, I could easily make out the pitch of each individual note. The treble is clear, cymbals sound real, the clink and clangs have the proper metallic sounds. Vocals are spot on. So exactly what is it with the amp that is not to your liking?

post #855 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

I have a 65W RMS per channel vintage Technics receiver and yes, I've put the HE-500's on the taps. Noticeable better than the Asgard2? Not in my book. I heard no distortion, steady state or transient. The FR is right there, the bass was plentiful and proper, I could easily make out the pitch of each individual note. The treble is clear, cymbals sound real, the clink and clangs have the proper metallic sounds. Vocals are spot on. So exactly what is it with the amp that is not to your liking?


Asgard 2?

 

If you recall from all of my posts. I say "Asgard"

 

I hear the 2 is great. On par with the Mjolnir in terms of transparency.

 

As for the Asgard 1 vs. Emotiva

Loose bass, less extension in both ends. Upper-mids / treble sounds recessed,  muffled. Overall lacks dynamic punch in the bass, treble, and even the mids. Emotiva also has better transparency/detail retreival. On normal desktop amps the HE-500 sags a bit in the bass and treble. Mids sound great, almost the same as speaker taps, and overall lacks dynamic punch and kind of sound slow/boring in general.

 

And on a side note. SS amps do burn-in. Specifically the caps (measured by scientific instruments, if you're into that kind of thing) Not to mention Jason of Schiit, who engineered the thing also believes in burn-in.


Edited by M-13 - 1/17/14 at 2:28pm
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