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Aune T1 USB Tube DAC+ SS Amp Discussion Thread ***See first post for FAQ--Updated on 02/14/15*** - Page 269

post #4021 of 8012

Guys...DONT ASSUME those are fake. Those caps DO come in smaller sizes. I will show you what I have at home WHEN I get home. You are post FAQ's without being sure...

 

EDIT: I was right - The ELNA's are part of the ELNA Audio line (thinks that's Cerafine) so not all ELNA's are SLIMACS..and they do come in different sizes...

 

LESSON: DONT ASSUME :bigsmile_face:

 

 


Edited by arcorob - 1/8/14 at 1:45pm
post #4022 of 8012

Thought about that also. Why they should be fake? I have also heard of caps with slightly different size manufactured specially for smaller room usage purpose. Aune T1 has quite good reputation and I don`t belive that there are fake units on sale. So who would hassle with cheaper fake caps? Only maybe refurbished units from guarantee service maybe?

 

But changing to better caps wouldn`t hurt anyway ;)

post #4023 of 8012

useless info


Edited by lwrs10 - 1/8/14 at 2:15pm
post #4024 of 8012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
 

 

 

There is no assumption on my part. A real Elna Silmic will say Silmic on it everytime. Look it up. The only other one that comes in that black/gold scheme is the Cerafine, and those also say Cerafine on them also.

 

The Nichicons I used were the EXACT same size......but weighed more by quite a bit, font was not the same, and the vent stamp was totally different.

 

 

I was sure before I posted.

 

 

 

With the capacitor market being flooded with fakes, almost all coming from China, I would bet the Aune was not knowingly assembled with fake caps.

 

 

 

 

And if I replaced all these caps with the EXACT same ones, how did the sound totally change?


Sorry, but I have to disagree. Not all say SLIMAC, not all say Cerafine, but they can still be ELNA's

 

As to weight ..are you serious ? Lets not even dignify how you found a weight discrepancy or if it even matters depending on batch, size,etc.

 

As to the sound...hmmm...All we can say is you heard a difference. Doesn't mean there was one or doesn't mean it would be positive to all. Sound is relative as we have seen from recent tube reviews.

 

I'll bow out of this conversation. I just think the capacitor bandwagon left the barn before anyone checked the horses. It never hurts to verify.


Edited by arcorob - 1/8/14 at 1:54pm
post #4025 of 8012

The complete Elna catalog.

 

http://www.elna.co.jp/en/capacitor/pdf/catalog_13_14_e.pdf

 

 

 

Only one capacitor in there it can be. 47uf 50v 6.3 x 11 audio grade capacitor. RFO series.

 

 

The power supply caps were not fake, they do not even have a brand on them.

 

 

 

If anyone would like to attempt a recap of the T1, I highly recommend it. I did it, and it made a difference to me.


Edited by lwrs10 - 1/8/14 at 2:26pm
post #4026 of 8012
I changed post about those "fake" caps and I personally think we should remove this information from useful links and let everyone decide by themselves about those capacitors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL View Post
 

This is NOT sure thing yet if there are some Aune T1 with fake capacitors on not as this lacks some information
and has different opinions!
I recommend everyone to do their own research about those "fake" caps inside Aune T1 and act accordingly. Opening Aune T1 voids warranty and if you don`t know what your are doing - do not do it! If your Aune T1 works without problems and everything sounds ok, there`s no need to start changing components. Although, replacing parts for higher-grade components never do harm.

 

Info about Aune T1 FAKE CAPACITORS! (Click to show)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
 

Those gold caps are directly in the signal path for the headphone amplifier. I usually am not the type to use "audio grade" caps, but the fact that the ones in this were 100% without a doubt fake, and I had real ones laying around, I swapped them. 

 

 

The power supply caps usually do not matter, but no brand caps don't sit well with me. The rail caps on the headphone amp were also fake after comparing them to real Nichicons. Font was not the same, indents in the top were different, and when I weighed them, the real Nichicons weighed more.

 

 

As for sound difference, using headphones, this tamed down the slight harshness it always had before. It never had that problem using the line out, but the headphone amp was kinda harsh to my ears. The line out listening will be done tomorrow, as it is late tonight.

 

 

But as far as the headphone out difference, well......it was quite a noticeable improvement. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post

Replaced the no name secondary regulated power supply caps with some good Nichicon.



3y7y3ery.jpg

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post

50v 47uf Elna Silmic eh? The bigger one is a real one I am holding next to it.




7ynu5eby.jpg

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
 

Took the Aune apart. The heater circuit is stand alone, and can handle 3 amps. 

 

 

 

And here is the headphone amplifier board. I see lots of room for improvement here. The Elna audio grade Silmic caps in it are fakes, so those will be changed out. As will the power caps. Stay tuned for a recap tonight.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcorob View Post
 

Guys...DONT ASSUME those are fake. Those caps DO come in smaller sizes. I will show you what I have at home WHEN I get home. You are post FAQ's without being sure...

 

EDIT: I was right - The ELNA's are part of the ELNA Audio line (thinks that's Cerafine) so not all ELNA's are SLIMACS..and they do come in different sizes...

 

LESSON: DONT ASSUME :bigsmile_face:

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcorob View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
 

 

 

There is no assumption on my part. A real Elna Silmic will say Silmic on it everytime. Look it up. The only other one that comes in that black/gold scheme is the Cerafine, and those also say Cerafine on them also.

 

The Nichicons I used were the EXACT same size......but weighed more by quite a bit, font was not the same, and the vent stamp was totally different.

 

 

I was sure before I posted.

 

 

 

With the capacitor market being flooded with fakes, almost all coming from China, I would bet the Aune was not knowingly assembled with fake caps.

 

 

 

 

And if I replaced all these caps with the EXACT same ones, how did the sound totally change?


Sorry, but I have to disagree. Not all say SLIMAC, not all say Cerafine, but they can still be ELNA's

 

As to weight ..are you serious ? Lets not even dignify how you found a weight discrepancy or if it even matters depending on batch, size,etc.

 

As to the sound...hmmm...All we can say is you heard a difference. Doesn't mean there was one or doesn't mean it would be positive to all. Sound is relative as we have seen from recent tube reviews.

 

I'll bow out of this conversation. I just think the capacitor bandwagon left the barn before anyone checked the horses. It never hurts to verify.

 

post #4027 of 8012

Delete it all. I don't take well to anyone being a dick to me like that. I spent a ton of time researching, measuring, and testing this stuff. Hell I just got done upgrading the transistors in the headphone amp part.

 

 

But I got the steam knocked out of me, so I am done for now.

post #4028 of 8012

lwrs10, don`t take it so seriously. In audio-world there are many different opinions and that`s the way it is. I think no-one is being dick around here.
I personally would greatly appreciate if you kept sharing those modifications and info! Seriously, don`t take it so harsh ;)

 

From my viewpoint, I think those caps are not fake but still, I`m going to change them for better ones when I take my unit apart and do case wood-overhaul ;P

About those higher current tube types, I decided to keep away from those. Little worried about those components getting hotter. ECC85 will be my higher-current-tubes limit for now, until we have some more ppl running them for awhile and confirming some good tubes. But that`s for everyone themselves to decide what and how to experiment with ;)

 

Edit: Actually, looking more into this subject, I`m starting to think they are fake ones!


Edited by CoiL - 1/8/14 at 3:06pm
post #4029 of 8012

I think I'm going to attempt to replace some caps in the very near future. I'll keep everyone posted when I do the swap and see what I find. I'll need to put some more hours on my he-400 and pick a tube a like to have a baseline before I do this.

post #4030 of 8012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
 

Delete it all. I don't take well to anyone being a dick to me like that. I spent a ton of time researching, measuring, and testing this stuff. Hell I just got done upgrading the transistors in the headphone amp part.

 

 

But I got the steam knocked out of me, so I am done for now.


lwrs..I apologize if my post sounded harsh, I think it did. I forget sometimes that on a forum post it is not conversational where you can see facial expressions or hear inflection. with that said and my apologies...

 

I am not saying you are WRONG. You may be 100% right .I am just saying, verify. It would not be hard to take the picture and send it to ELNA. And I agree, if they are fake, I don't think AUNE did it purposely. They seem to put some care into the build.

 

As to sound difference, I am sure you did hear that but think about it for a sake, step back. You have that unit well broken in. Now you change the caps. Of course it will sound different. Unless you don't believe in cap break-in (which is a whole nother can of worms)

 

Don;t take your toys and go home. Take a step back, know you are appreciated, but when you get tested, see the validity in that test. Should everyone just assume if someone says that's fake, its fake ?

 

Again my apologies if my post was taken badly...

post #4031 of 8012

I've got to agree 100% with lwrs10 on this regarding the prominence of fake caps (and many other parts out there) coming out of China.

 

He is also correct that Elna caps will have the series name printed on them.

 

Rob - the top two photos you're using to represent "real" Elna caps are from Web shops in China.   Compare the caps against Elna's own spec sheets.

 

In many cases, fake caps do indeed weigh less than their real counterparts, due to cheaper and/or less internal materials used.   Not related to the T1, but some large faked electrolytic caps actually have cheap smaller caps soldered inside of the cans that are then imprinted with fake labels.  

 

There's a Web forum dedicated to helping identify and root some of them them out.   badcaps.net   

 

I've gotten to the point over the years after seeing so much of it that I just about assume any inexpensive audio product coming out of China is using fake parts.  Caps, resistors, Alps pots, tubes, resistors, op amps, transistors... the list goes on.  DIY forums have posts all the time about people finding fake parts.   I no longer trust any electronic parts on eBay with prices that seem to be bargains whether or not they come out of China, because it's also easy to buy them in bulk and re-sell.  There's plenty of info out there to read about this, it's neither rare nor a false accusation.   In some cases, it can even be dangerous, when parts specified for high voltages or current are faked without appropriate QC/testing.

 

   -Mike

post #4032 of 8012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhamel View Post
 

I've got to agree 100% with lwrs10 on this regarding the prominence of fake caps (and many other parts out there) coming out of China.

 

He is also correct that Elna caps will have the series name printed on them.

 

Rob - the top two photos you're using to represent "real" Elna caps are from Web shops in China.   Compare the caps against Elna's own spec sheets.

 

In many cases, fake caps do indeed weigh less than their real counterparts, due to cheaper and/or less internal materials used.   Not related to the T1, but some large faked electrolytic caps actually have cheap smaller caps soldered inside of the cans that are then imprinted with fake labels.  

 

There's a Web forum dedicated to helping identify and root some of them them out.   badcaps.net   

 

I've gotten to the point over the years after seeing so much of it that I just about assume any inexpensive audio product coming out of China is using fake parts.  Caps, resistors, Alps pots, tubes, resistors, op amps, transistors... the list goes on.  DIY forums have posts all the time about people finding fake parts.   I no longer trust any electronic parts on eBay with prices that seem to be bargains whether or not they come out of China, because it's also easy to buy them in bulk and re-sell.  There's plenty of info out there to read about this, it's neither rare nor a false accusation.   In some cases, it can even be dangerous, when parts specified for high voltages or current are faked without appropriate QC/testing.

 

   -Mike

Mike,

 

I don't disagree..and thanks for the link !

 

All I was trying to point out (and I did it badly) was before Head-fi started posted all over the internet that AUNE was using fake caps was verify. That's all. Its not that hard. Example, I don't think one could hold a 47uf 50v cap and say "oh this one is lighter" . why do I say that ? Because I have boxes of caps in all shapes and sizes...the one pictured below...47uf 50v...

 

64 hundredths of a gram .64   so if another was .74 you think it would be discernable without a gram scale ? I don't think so I weighed a Nichicon 1.03, a Rubicon black gate, .82   ..so weight was irrelevant.

 

NOTHING wrong with upgrading parts ..I wish Janzen made these lol...I have two .1.0uf 800v I paid 27 bucks apiece ...and never used...

 

post #4033 of 8012

After digging more into this subject I`m starting to think that they actually are fake ones. But you never know. Safest thing would be getting some high-grade caps and replace them.

 

Edit: Any comments on this post?

 

The reason I`m asking is that it seems to be only sensible option from electronics dealer in my town & country. Ordering from mouser would cost me 40€ posting cost which is INSANE! LOL ;D

 

Edit: Also, can anyone of you smarter guys tell how the ripple current in specifications affects outcome? Or is it irrelevant?


Edited by CoiL - 1/8/14 at 3:14pm
post #4034 of 8012

I never compared weight in my hands. Not my first time trying to identify fake caps, so I got my scale out. Which is the exact same one you have.

 

I will take pics of the ones that came out of the Aune on the scale, and the exact same rating/size/brand ones I put in on the scale. It was not a small difference. You also have to account for the full leads on the new cap when measured. When you install them, weigh the clipped leads then subtract that weight.

 

 

I even have a capacitor tester I can test these with. Let me drag it out.

 

 

Rob, if you have extra caps laying around, and have the exp, why not swap them real quick and give your thoughts on the sound after?


Edited by lwrs10 - 1/8/14 at 3:19pm
post #4035 of 8012

lwrs10, just know, your contribution to this thread & Aune T1 is great effort and greatly appreciated! ;) Any comments on those panasonic caps I linked?

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