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Aune T1 USB Tube DAC+Amp Discussion Thread ***See first post for FAQ*** - Page 42

post #616 of 1884
2/5/13 at 8:14am

Ah and also the aune staff in a chinese forum told me to get the original camera connection kit for ipad to work well. Anybody tried it with ipad 3? Thanks.

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post #617 of 1884
2/5/13 at 8:21am
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rboin View Post
 

Sound stage is very small if your ear is not trained to differentiate from the laptop soundcard. 

I`m sure it`s because of your px100 headphones. With good headphones and 6922EH, soundstage should be huge compared to pc soundcard!

Or did you mean it with AKG 240 mkII? With those cans there should be also huge difference in soundstage.

 

 

 

E: About that custom short USB cable... Alex from rockgrotto:

Quote:
After just a few minutes playing around with this very nicely constructed and attractive little unit, I can say that a short USB cable with the Vbus (red wire) disconnected at the PC end of the USB cable did sound better than when using the longer supplied USB cable, which itself appeared to be quite a bit better quality than most normal USB cables, when playing a 24/192 track from Barry Diament's "Americas" album.

Atm I`m using this 1M foil shielded: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1M-High-Speed-USB-2-0-A-Male-to-B-Male-Premium-Printer-Cable-Lead-/330861962594?pt=UK_Computing_USB_Cables&hash=item4d08e8e562

 

Will buy shorter, gold plugs, foil shielded like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-0-A-to-B-A-B-printer-cable-CORD-FOR-HP-Epson-Lexmark-Canon-Brother-DELL-PC-/180888831638?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2a1dd08696


Edited by CoiL - 2/5/13 at 8:32am
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post #618 of 1884
2/5/13 at 8:49am

@coil: yes You are correct that i have no improvement with the px100, just a bit layering and clarity and louder :) . There is this sound stage with akg k240 mk2 but i dont have other comparison standard. Sorry for the misubderstanding.

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post #619 of 1884
2/5/13 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL View Post

Zero noise from my Aune T1. Of course when you have poor quality audio and don`t bypass PC internal output filtering ( you must use kernel stream plugin, ASIO or some alternative), then there will be some noise. Otherwise, turned my speakers and headphone knob to max with nothing playing - silence. That reminds me that I have to mod my custom short USB cable by cutting out +5V pin.


I notice slight hiss when the volume knob is about 80%, no music played. I suspect the tube, but it's not a big deal, because like a rest,I hardly ever get to 50%.

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post #620 of 1884
2/5/13 at 10:28am

Its propably the tube. Anyway my Mullard ECC88 is silent.

 

Enuma-elis and Grevlin, is your USB cable black with golden plugs or grey? My T1 came with black and golden plugs not like the grey one on some older Aune T1 pics you can see on the web. 


Edited by CoiL - 2/5/13 at 10:31am
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post #621 of 1884
2/5/13 at 10:40am

Black. I think, it doesn't make any differences. It could be a little shorter to be more handy, but I don't believe in any Super-uber 100% gold usb cables thing. 

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post #622 of 1884
2/5/13 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enuma-elis View Post

Black. I think, it doesn't make any differences. It could be a little shorter to be more handy, but I don't believe in any Super-uber 100% gold usb cables thing. 


I would agree - especially a USB cable. Its just ones and zeros going down the line, unless I'm missing something.

 

After the Dac to the Amp and then from Amp to Speakers - I can see how cables would effect sound. I still can't fathom buying a cable that costs the same or even twice the cost of the equipment. I've seen ridiculous prices on cables.


Edited by Grevlin - 2/5/13 at 10:47am
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post #623 of 1884
2/5/13 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grevlin View Post


I would agree - especially a USB cable. Its just ones and zeros going down the line, unless I'm missing something.

 

After the Dac to the Amp and then from Amp to Speakers - I can see how cables would effect sound. I still can't fathom buying a cable that costs the same or even twice the cost of the equipment. I've seen ridiculous prices on cables.


Maybe one day, when I grew old and rich...I will understand. But nowadays?

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post #624 of 1884
2/5/13 at 11:00am

Yup - when we get to the point when nothing else is left to upgrade. biggrin.gif

 

...$1000 4' cable - why not. blink.gif

 

The ad does say "So good you can hear the sounds of Angel's singing!"

 

 

 

Agree - I won't be there for a while.
 


Edited by Grevlin - 2/5/13 at 11:04am
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post #625 of 1884
2/5/13 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grevlin View Post


I would agree - especially a USB cable. Its just ones and zeros going down the line, unless I'm missing something.

 

After the Dac to the Amp and then from Amp to Speakers - I can see how cables would effect sound. I still can't fathom buying a cable that costs the same or even twice the cost of the equipment. I've seen ridiculous prices on cables.


don't wish to start any debate here on that, but I am on the side of the camp that agrees on the significance of cables, be them analog or digital.. on every part of the signal chain cables affect the sound..

 

I DIYed quite a few of cables myself and also bought from various places and their improvements are never placebo.. cables have been getting too much of a stick IMO.. even type of solder on the connection point has an effect... and I actually rate cables constructions and their materials a 5-10% affection on my overall listening experience.. an improvement on cables at any point they are needed, add that up, I can assure you the difference is there..

 

I, however, don't see the need to spend thousands on these too, as from then on I reckon the improvements are probably not worth that amount of money to justify.. but sometimes for $50 or below, hell yeah!

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post #626 of 1884
2/5/13 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grevlin View Post

Yup - when we get to the point when nothing else is left to upgrade. biggrin.gif

 

...$1000 4' cable - why not. blink.gif

 

Agree - I won't be there for a while.
 


Yep, I wouldn't pay $1000 for growing my pennis four inches, and someone is suggesting pay it for a frickin' four steps cable?atsmile.gif

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post #627 of 1884
2/5/13 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap View Post


don't wish to start any debate here on that, but I am on the side of the camp that agrees on the significance of cables, be them analog or digital.. on every part of the signal chain cables affect the sound..

 

I DIYed quite a few of cables myself and also bought from various places and their improvements are never placebo.. cables have been getting too much of a stick IMO.. even type of solder on the connection point has an effect... and I actually rate cables constructions and their materials a 5-10% affection on my overall listening experience.. an improvement on cables at any point they are needed, add that up, I can assure you the difference is there..

 

I, however, don't see the need to spend thousands on these too, as from then on I reckon the improvements are probably not worth that amount of money to justify.. but sometimes for $50 or below, hell yeah!


When I was younger I've spend some time on death/black metal concerts. I'm glad, that I can hear dac differencebiggrin.gif.

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post #628 of 1884
2/5/13 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL View Post

Its propably the tube. Anyway my Mullard ECC88 is silent.

 

Enuma-elis and Grevlin, is your USB cable black with golden plugs or grey? My T1 came with black and golden plugs not like the grey one on some older Aune T1 pics you can see on the web. 


Mine is black with "gold" plugs - seems pretty solid as far as I can see.

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post #629 of 1884
2/5/13 at 11:41am

Agree with icecap. Even though the effect may be even pseudo or un-hearable, why not to cut out that useless +5V pin that could create interference? Why not to use better shielded cable?

Gold pins - I don`t care about these much but since T1`s USB-B socket it gold plated, I think gold plated plug will make better contact. What comes to shorter vs. longer cable - faster and clearer data signal (you could see the cable difference with some HDD`s for example, slower data transfer). All that might be un-noticeable but why not to "invest" in that? Its cheap and easy!

 

Now, lets talk about tubes...

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL 

Sharing some impressions with tubes. HP`s used for listening test: Superlux HD-681 (mkII filter) & HD-662F (custom filter)

*******
Electro-Harmonix 6922-EH 
I like this tube very much and if you don`t bother to mess with tubes, then its good to go as "stock". It has wide spacious soundstage. Well spread out instruments and easy to concentrate on details. Great sence of air. Has more highs and bass depth/reverb than 6N23P. Great tube for towards "fun" sounding HP`s like HD-681 for longer music listening sessions.
Great with different genres but better for electronic music. 

*******
Amperex ECC88/6DJ8 (1969, GAC, large dimple disc getter on a single leg support, NOS)

Similiar to 6922EH. Both have wide soundstage, airy sound, very well spread out instruments and easy to concentrate on certain details/instruments. Amperex has less highs and bass is more tight, making it littlebit less airy. More life in mids, bringing vocals more into "sight". I personally find this tube better for rock/metal than 6922EH but sounds great with different genres and is good also good with flat sounding HP`s.

*******
6N23P (Reflektor logo, from Mike @ rockgrotto)
Has narrower soundstage than tubes mentioned before and instruments are less separated. Less air, space and more foward sounding. Good tube for flat sounding monitoring cans. Personally I prefer Amperex with HD-662F for music listening. For studio monitoring 6N23P is propably better.

*******
Brimar ECC88/6DJ8 (late 70´, round large halo getter, "cinemascope" logo)

Not good with Aune T1. It is quite bright and narrow sounding, dry, no liveness, bass is lost.

*******
Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 (1972, made in Hungary, NOS)

This tube is very similiar to 6922EH. It is hard to compare those 2 and find differences. All I could figure out with my ears is that both tubes have exactly the same soundstage, space and instrument separation. 
With 6922EH there is tinybit more bright top-end and thus makes 6922EH only fraction more airy/detail.
Bass is littlebit more punchy and tighter on Tungsram but again, only a fraction.
Atm, for me, it`s the best tube for HD-681 (mkII).
_______________________

Overall, for me, the best tube for different genres & cans is Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8.
Will make more comparing between Amperex and Tungsram later.

Also ordered one Tesla PCC88/7DJ8 (NOS, Yellow 32 Factory Code for Tesla Rožnov n.p. Závod Vrchlabí plant)
Will update soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL 

Had some more serious listening between Amperex ECC88/6DJ8 (1969, GAC, large dimple disc getter on a single leg support, NOS) vs Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 (1972, made in Hungary, NOS).

Amperex is certainly better for rock/metal. Overall better for music full of percussive & string instruments. Soundstage/headroom is smaller and has less air and room response. Soundstage is littlebit more laid in front of you. Loud distorted guitar riffs are more separated and identifiable. Vocals more in "sight" and "cleaner". Mids have more "full body". Also if you have more flat sounding HP`s this is certainly better than Tungsram.

In contrast, Tungsram is better for electronic music. More air and larger soundstage/headroom make a feel you are more in middle of room and surrounded by it. Don`t get me wrong, this tube does not have too hollow & hall-like sound that details/instruments start to get "lost". It has very enjoyable soundstage and for longer listening sessions I still prefer this tube to Amperex with different genres. But when you are listening mostly hard rock/metal/trash etc. go for Amperex! Also what I manager to notice, is that Tungsram definitely has more punchy & tighter bass at lower/normal listening volume than 6922EH.

For me these two are the best tubes at the moment. Now waiting for Tesla PCC88/7DJ8...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL 

Update. Decided to try again 6922EH after keeping PCC88 in T1 for some time now. After listening Pantha Du Prince - Black Noise album (FLAC) ( example song - www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c4wWr8jKrU , great for detecting headroom/soundstage differences ) with Tungsram PCC88 and changing to 6922EH, I noticed clear difference in soundstage/headroom - 6922EH has littlebit more wider and towards to "large hall" soundstage with more "reverb/echo". Everything else I said before about 6922EH vs. Tungsram PCC88 stays same. But with 6922EH and Pantha Du Prince - I felt like "flowing in air" inside music. Once again I make a note - much depends also on the music you are listening to and your own taste. Between PCC88 vs. 6922EH in case of electronic music, I would say that if you are more bass&beat freak then go with Tungsram PCC88, if you want to "flow" inside music take 6922EH. Honestly I dont know anymore which one I prefer with electronic music. I guess with more typical club-beat-electronic music it will be PCC88.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL 

Got my Tesla PCC88, same as shown and described here: jda1951.xanga.com/770095693/tesla-pcc88/
Had it inside T1 only like 10min, so can`t give accurate feedback atm but it`s pretty much like it says on the link above:
Quote:

Bass is solid but never draws undue attention to itself.
Midrange is clear if a little lean making dialogue easy to understand.
Detail is excellent with a crisp transient response.
Upper treble is extended and airy.
Dynamics are top-notch and the overall presentation is quick, peppy, and sparkly.
Not as grainless as the best (Amperex, Telefunken and Siemens).
Soundstage is wide, well-layered and populated with larger, slightly more diffuse images

 

First impressions say that it`s maybe littlebit leaned into bright side, top-end treble is very sparkly and bright but airy. Soundstage is wide and airy but is pushed littlebit to foward and slightly more narrow/centre-weighted, also vertical soundstage is narrow, compared to 6922EH and Tungsram PCC88. It seems to be good tube and maybe better for classical music but I personally prefer 6922EH and Tungsram PCC88 to it. Will take longer listening session when I get my Mullard ECC88 and give more analytical impressions.

 

Amperex ECC88/6DJ8 (1969, GAC, large dimple disc getter on a single leg support, NOS) VS. Mullard ECC88 (BVA, Imported, GAG, delta5D2, A-frame dimple disc getter)

(compared with HD-681 mkII)

 

Those two are VERY similiar but still managed to find out differences. They are minor but still...

Amperex has littlebit larger & wider soundstage (both in vertical and horisontal), more air & reverb/room response, "fuller" bass, better mids and vocals have more "life". Overall has more "flow" and enjoyable sound. Mullard sounds somewhat "dry" and refined, has tinybit tighter bass, mids & highs feel more flat with less "sparkle" in them. 

Nevertheless this Mullard ECC88 is one of the best tubes I have for Aune T1 and imo more suitable for rock/metal/jazz than to electronic music. This tube comes 2nd in my rock/metal/jazz tube list after amperex and I take it as backup tube instead amperex. For electronic music 6922EH is still 1st and Tungsram PCC88 2nd. 


Edited by CoiL - 2/5/13 at 12:14pm
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post #630 of 1884
2/5/13 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rboin View Post

@coil: yes You are correct that i have no improvement with the px100, just a bit layering and clarity and louder :) . There is this sound stage with akg k240 mk2 but i dont have other comparison standard. Sorry for the misubderstanding.

I was about to say....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grevlin View Post

I would agree - especially a USB cable. Its just ones and zeros going down the line, unless I'm missing something.

 

After the Dac to the Amp and then from Amp to Speakers - I can see how cables would effect sound. I still can't fathom buying a cable that costs the same or even twice the cost of the equipment. I've seen ridiculous prices on cables.

well... it depends, if the DAC section is drawing power from the USB port then (As people with ODACs have figured) you have some issues, because the dirty power from laptops especially feeds straight into the dac and that can make a substantial difference, so you need a linear power supply and 5v injector, also the cable carries noise from the power supply so you need a USB cable with ferrite chokes (that also makes a big difference), and then of course just decent isolation from outside noise. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by icecap View Post


don't wish to start any debate here on that, but I am on the side of the camp that agrees on the significance of cables, be them analog or digital.. on every part of the signal chain cables affect the sound..

 

I DIYed quite a few of cables myself and also bought from various places and their improvements are never placebo.. cables have been getting too much of a stick IMO.. even type of solder on the connection point has an effect... and I actually rate cables constructions and their materials a 5-10% affection on my overall listening experience.. an improvement on cables at any point they are needed, add that up, I can assure you the difference is there..

 

I, however, don't see the need to spend thousands on these too, as from then on I reckon the improvements are probably not worth that amount of money to justify.. but sometimes for $50 or below, hell yeah!

QED performance 1, cheap, lifetime warranty, good quality, as much I will ever use unless someone shows me some specs for any improvements. and since its all physics there should be a fair amount of substantiated theory and evident results, but there isn't, why? Because they apply wrong theories (like skinning effect to interconnects) for one.

 

If your happy, I'm not gonna go all convert on you, be happy, its your money. And thats not me being a prick, genuinely honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enuma-elis View Post

When I was younger I've spend some time on death/black metal concerts. I'm glad, that I can hear dac differencebiggrin.gif.

I went to KoRn without fully recovering from an ear infection....

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