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Tyll and Stevie's discourse - Page 3

post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonitus mirus View Post

With regards to lossless audio compression, maybe the ones are onesier and the zeroes are zeroier with an uncompressed WAV file or a CD?  Makes sense to me, I'm running with it. gs1000.gif

 

...behind Penny, Leonard holds up a piece of paper with "sarcasm" scribbled on it

post #32 of 34

Have to agree and both disagree here

I have found in some circumstances that the WAV or FLAC file sounds and good if not better than the CD from which it came, depending of the transport and DAC.

 

Unfortunately with computer audio there are so many different and new variables introduced into the audio chain that don't exist in the CD/DAC environment at all.  I believe its these variables which produce the issues and artifacts to which Guttenburg refers.  The configuration of the computer and how the signal is passed to the DAC are two which come to mind which can have a huge effect on the overall sound quality. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

 

 

Guttenburg also says this.....

Quote:

So while lossless audio compression (FLAC or Apple Lossless for example) can be "expanded" to produce an exact digital duplicate of the original audio stream, that's not necessarily the same thing as sounding exactly like an uncompressed WAV file or a CD. To my ears lossless files add a glare or edge to the music and flatten the soundstage. Please don't misunderstand, I think FLAC or Apple Lossless sound perfectly fine, just not on par with a CD, when played on a high-end audio system."

 

 


Edited by complin - 4/17/13 at 12:13pm
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

Have to agree and both disagree here

I have found in some circumstances that the WAV or FLAC file sounds and good if not better than the CD from which it came, depending of the transport and DAC.

 

Unfortunately with computer audio there are so many different and new variables introduced into the audio chain that don't exist in the CD/DAC environment at all.  I believe its these variables which produce the issues and artifacts to which Guttenburg refers.  The configuration of the computer and how the signal is passed to the DAC are two which come to mind which can have a huge effect on the overall sound quality. 


I tend to agree with you. But then we wouldn't be talking about differences due to FLAC files not "sounding exactly like an uncompressed WAV file", or  issues because "lossless files add a glare or edge to the music and flatten the soundstage".

 

We would be talking about differences due to the audio reproduction equipment (including but not limited to transport and DAC implementation.)

post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

Have to agree and both disagree here

I have found in some circumstances that the WAV or FLAC file sounds and good if not better than the CD from which it came, depending of the transport and DAC.

 

Unfortunately with computer audio there are so many different and new variables introduced into the audio chain that don't exist in the CD/DAC environment at all.  I believe its these variables which produce the issues and artifacts to which Guttenburg refers.  The configuration of the computer and how the signal is passed to the DAC are two which come to mind which can have a huge effect on the overall sound quality. 

 

You are giving SG far too much benefit of the doubt here. He does not say "This configuration with this type of device with this playback software and this transport mechanism" he makes a blanket statement about  

 

Quote:
an exact digital duplicate of the original audio stream, that's not necessarily the same thing as sounding exactly like an uncompressed WAV file

 

If you have two identical audio streams where is the difference coming from ?

 

I've politely asked him to explain this - silence was the stern reply. I teach undergraduates, and when I say something that turns out to be just plain wrong or stupid I apologize.

 

As for digital transport mechanisms we really only have anecdotal evidence for substantial audible differences, notwithstanding pathological cases which curiously tend to be centered among boutique tweaky designs.

 

There is zero solid evidence for normal levels of jitter being audible and the most problematic Computer Audio interface (USB) which admittedly could (perhaps can)  be massively flaky and suffer from blips and dropouts is generally much better implemented on modern machines. The technology is quite mature now.

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