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Hifiman IEM's: RE-400 and RE-600 - Page 31

post #451 of 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deni5 View Post


Although I agree that analytical IEM's should possess those requirements you mention those can almost only be measured by measuring instruments. Can't see Joker's reviews of IEM's mentioning those requirements for him to call something analytical. From Head fi's "Describing Sound - A Glossary" something analytical is "Highly detailed". If treble is too withdrawn/barely noticable I can't see it as analytical (imo). But I understand what you are saying.

This is my understanding also. I base my descriptions on what I hear, using the commonly used glossary of terms. If I stray too far from that, I end up leading readers into a maze of subjective semantics.

Still, it is interesting to hear others opinions that put more emphasis on technical measurements.

Insightful comparisons Deni5. Some more vs Re-272 when you're ready :-D
post #452 of 2966

Glad to see the 400s gaining some popularity. Excellent value at $99, and a very nice successor in the RE-ZERO price point in my opinion

post #453 of 2966

with re-400 at 99$

and re-272 at 250(or 200)$

 

i wonder how good the re-600 will be at 400$

post #454 of 2966

Me too, the RE-272 is the best dynamic i have ever heard, perhaps the best universal so i am really excited about the 400!

post #455 of 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

Me too, the RE-272 is the best dynamic i have ever heard, perhaps the best universal so i am really excited about the 400!

x Zwei
post #456 of 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nulliverse View Post

Insightful comparisons Deni5. Some more vs Re-272 when you're ready :-D

 

Hi, I did some comparison in an older post in this thread. As I see it RE-272 is the perfected version of the older driver (not sure though if they were using same version for all the older models, probably not but there are sound similarities). Of course some may disagree because some prefer warmth and like the RE-262 more, I can understand that also. Still I find that the new line starting with RE-400 is capable of better balance. As said before it is the technically better one, but it has some small flaws reaching the qualities of RE-272 as it is now. It is a little mid centric. Treble is good but very slightly withdrawn. (still if I had to choose which one to use for all time between RE-272 and RE-400 I would have personally chosen RE-400)

 

You can change the sound signature by modding it. There are a couple of factors dependant on its sound signature.

* Metal housing - look at the difference in sound comparing Grado SR225 vs SR325, one is plastic one is metal

* Bass port - don't know if the older RE- line used this - I can see something that reminds of bass ports on my RE-ZERO but not sure. If you cover the bass port on the RE-400 you loose lots of bass so it does something to the sound.

* Titanium coating - look at the difference in sound comparing Koss Porta Pro and Koss KCS75. One is not titanium coated and one is.

* Neodymium magnet - Able to push lots of air

* 8.5mm Titanium Diapharagm - Should be some advantage to this, not sure but I think it has something to do with how fast/precise it can be

 

These are technical advantages as I see it. The thing that is controlling RE-400's sound signature is the white foam and black T4000-filter. White foam controls 3-7 kHz and T4000 7-infinity kHz as AstralStorm commented earlier in the thread. I tried removing the white foam and did get a less mid centric sound, but you also loose a lot of bass so I had to compensate with an extra T4000-filter as more dampening seems to lead to more bass. But when you dampen more in the 7-infinity region you loose some air and sparkle and some warmth in the vocals (although not noticable on all occasions). You could also do like AstralStorm did by removing the T4000-filter and keeping the white foam. More air and sparkle and bass should be pretty untouched as the white foam is doing the most of the dampening.

 

White foam seems also to control warmth and vocal range (although I don't consider RE-400 a very warm IEM). So you could experiment with different sizes of the white foam - either dampen more or less.

 

If you look at RE-272 it is using T2000-filters. This is a more transparent filter, you can easily see through it (I can easily see the white foam on my RE-272). The T4000 is not that transparent so it is dampening more. I believe it is the T2000 filter that gave the RE-272 that special soundstage/airyness.

 

Even changing different tips does a lot to the sound signature (check AstralStorm's earlier post on this). I think the length of the tip affects airyness - that is why I liked the longstem bi-flange on the RE-272 the most but you also loose a little warmth and bass when using that. There are a lot of mod capabilities so I believe you can get a equally good or perhaps a better IEM than the RE-272 if you mod the RE-400 because it is technically better from the start. You won't get the exact sound signature though, RE-400 is tuned differently towards more balance.

 

If you have tried any mod you will start to realize what capabilities this driver has. I personally believe that when they will finetune and release RE-600 should be amazing and take on most competition soundwise (they are already on the road on perfected balanced sound with the RE-400 imo).


Edited by Deni5 - 3/2/13 at 4:16pm
post #457 of 2966

Some more testing between RE-272 and RE-400. Listened to Metallica - The Unforgiven. There is a guitar solo at 3m 45s+ that I found a little piercing/harsh/too forward on the RE-272 but not on the RE-400. Checked frequency response data for RE-272 on Innerfidelity. I see that there is a high bump in the 1-3kHz region.

Googled what frequency range an electrical guitar plays in and found the following:
E2 (82 Hz) to F6 (1397 Hz) (Open #6 82.407Hz, Open #1 880Hz, #1 25th Fret 1396.91Hz (1.39kHz)

I guess the guitar solo is played in the 1kHz+ region (up to 1kHz RE-272 is pretty flat after that it rises) so maybe that is why I find it a little piercing because of the bump. If that is the case then RE-400 should be more tamed in 1-3kHz region (perhaps this is why it doesn't stand out on first listen aka boring sounding)

Checked Sennheiser HD-600 data for reference and it does not have a bump in 1-3kHZ region. Also listened to the song with my HD-600 and I don't find the guitar solo piercing/harsh.

No matter what mods I do with the filters I don't affect this region directly. Don't even know if it's possible indirectly. Anyway I believe there is a difference here between RE-272 and RE-400 (although I have not seen frequency data on RE-400).

So I wonder a little where RE-600 will go - even more neutral sounding or "fun" sounding.

 

Update:

Found frequency response data on RE-400 (Rin). 1 - 2kHz is almost flat after 2kHz steep roll off. High bump at around 5kHz (much higher than RE-272 it seems).


Edited by Deni5 - 3/3/13 at 9:04am
post #458 of 2966

Just putting RE-400 driver in a slightly larger shell (hard to design), removing the unncecessry damper should be enough. (or some other way to slightly bump the highest end)

Also slightly damping the reverberation - e.g. with extra foam behind the driver.

 

I would keep the metal shells though - it has far more natural reverb than plastic ones and wood tends to bump up the midbass.

post #459 of 2966

"Payment recieved. Waiting for shipping."

 

Wonder how they compare to my HD598's which are for my home-use.

post #460 of 2966
Anyone heard a release date for the re-600 ?

I'm so impressed with the re-400, I'm poised to order the big brother....

Strong statement here, but I'm thinking they may compliment my Merlin's so well I could see myself selling my 1+2.... :-P
post #461 of 2966

Last I heard from Fang himself is either this or next month.

post #462 of 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

Last I heard from Fang himself is either this or next month.

I really hope that it's true! After hearing the RE-400 and being so impressed from them for their $99 price-tag, I can't wait to hear what Fang will bring for $399.

post #463 of 2966

Subbed.  Interested in the 600...popcorn.gif

post #464 of 2966

Googled info on RE-600 and found the following:

"The RE-600 takes the natural, pleasing nature of the RE-400 and yields more space, more definition, and a more relaxed mid-band...in short it bests the RE-400 in every category as it should at several times the cost." -Stereodesk

"Shipping in March" -Stereodesk

"Crystalline Copper-Silver Cabling"  (Oxygen-Free Copper cabling on RE-400)

Not any official information I believe but yet I think it won't be that far off the truth (could have guessed they would work with the mid centric part at least)
 


Edited by Deni5 - 3/3/13 at 5:41pm
post #465 of 2966

I seem to have found this pic off the headfi site.  I guess this is what the Re600 will look like?  

Or is there another pic of the gold looking one thats more recent?

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