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Hifiman IEM's: RE-400 and RE-600 - Page 21

post #301 of 2523

this sounds promising, finally some good news!

although, RE-400 was said to be a touch sibilant here - is this gone on the RE-600?

any comparisons to something like Phonak PFE series, or perhaps ATH AT-CK10/CK100? or UM2x RC? those are the only ones I currently have in my recent memory for IEM's. I am hoping they would be similar to RE-262/272 in terms of that.

I found the CK10/CK100 to have a little problem with treble, CK10 more sibilant than CK100, both a bit much treble but still quite nice. and the Phonak PFE had a few problems with sibilance as well.

UM2x I thought was quite nice, used the Comply tips for those. olives for the rest.

 

thanks!

post #302 of 2523

RE-400 should arrive here tomorrow. I can directly compare to RE-ZERO and Brainwavz B2, both in best configurations. (First: elliptic Samsung/Fostex ear tips M/S sized, filterless, equalized; Second: Comply P, equalized)

And obviously I'll see if these get better when equalized. Didn't I say equalized enough? If no, then I'll provide the equalization curve.

Any noticeably obvious mods will be applied too.

 

I have RE-272 and RE0 relatively fresh in memory too. (less than two months; and have the eq curve for RE-272 stored)

Of course I'll compare the RE-400 unequalized first to check if they actually need it or benefit much from it. (Much like B2 and SE-5 do and RE-ZERO in filterless config require.)

 

Also for uneven matches: HE500 (yes, vs orthodynamic headphone, heh; same box) and SE-5 (vs $1300 custom IEM, which I'm not that fond of; also equalized).


Edited by AstralStorm - 1/29/13 at 8:43am
post #303 of 2523

grab one new at amazon.com  for 199$

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00681ZUPK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

Makes sense. I guess I'll have to wait for the next round of releases. I think it is the small soundstage and too polite treble that killed it for me. Perhaps I should try to find a used re272. I definitely enjoyed Fang's other turnings in the re0, re-zero and re262.

 
post #304 of 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchzilla View Post

this sounds promising, finally some good news!

although, RE-400 was said to be a touch sibilant here - is this gone on the RE-600?

any comparisons to something like Phonak PFE series, or perhaps ATH AT-CK10/CK100? or UM2x RC? those are the only ones I currently have in my recent memory for IEM's. I am hoping they would be similar to RE-262/272 in terms of that.

I found the CK10/CK100 to have a little problem with treble, CK10 more sibilant than CK100, both a bit much treble but still quite nice. and the Phonak PFE had a few problems with sibilance as well.

UM2x I thought was quite nice, used the Comply tips for those. olives for the rest.

 

thanks!

 

Sibilance? I never heard any sibilance in HifiMan's IEM. I can understand if sibilance is described on RE272 or RE0 because of their relative brightness (though they are far from being sibilant), but definitely not on the RE400 or RE600. Besides RE1 and RE262, these two new models are some of the smoothest IEM HifiMan makes. If you really want to know what sibilance is, try Final Audio Design (well, half of them anyway). It is like poking a needle into the eardrum. In comparison, HifiMan is very far from being sibilant.

post #305 of 2523

agree completely, no sibilance to my ears. the only person who found sibilance is tinyman so maybe he is sensitive at a different frequency!

post #306 of 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

 

Sibilance? I never heard any sibilance in HifiMan's IEM. I can understand if sibilance is described on RE272 or RE0 because of their relative brightness (though they are far from being sibilant), but definitely not on the RE400 or RE600. Besides RE1 and RE262, these two new models are some of the smoothest IEM HifiMan makes. If you really want to know what sibilance is, try Final Audio Design (well, half of them anyway). It is like poking a needle into the eardrum. In comparison, HifiMan is very far from being sibilant.

hmm is that so? I was told earlier in this thread that RE-400 is about as sibilant as the Phonak PFE with grey filter, which I found to be a bit hissy with some of my less nice recordings. I really like those recordings though, and had no problems whatsoever with the HE-500 on those. nor some other full size cans, but it's quite difficult to compare that way.

the thing is just that I have had so much problem with longer term fatigue in almost all IEM/headphones I've tried, with a relatively low number of exceptions. (a couple of STAX, Sennheiser HD 650 and "below"/Momentum, HiFiMAN HE-500 to name a few full size, Sennheiser IE8, Westone UM2X as IEM's)

I need something that does not leak sound and does not cause fatigue but is still really good sounding, and I use them for rather long periods of time. it's proving to be quite a challenge so far redface.gif

 

budget is not the biggest issue but I was hoping to not spend too much.

 

anyway, have you heard the Phonak PFE and can comment on RE-600/400 fatigue (mainly sibilance) vs the PFE grey filter? smily_headphones1.gif just to see if opinions are similar.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhQW1dmwIzA&hd=1

example song that I tried on the Phonaks. had no problem with HD650, HE-500 or Sennheiser Momentum.

 

thanks a lot!

post #307 of 2523

I have PFE for years, but I don't consider it to be particularly sibilant. Sibilance is to me the excessiveness of sss... and zzz... There is suppose to be some s and z on recording and the IEM should reproduce them correctly. Sibilance is to me the unnatural occurrence or prolongation of s and z, which is something I find on EX700 or Adagio V, but not on PFE grey filter or RE400. If all the s and z were suppressed, the vocal will only lose its detail and sounds dull (and sometime dark). If they are more than normal, it will turn gainy, Too much, then it will be piercing. However, if you are looking for a fatigue-free sound, then I can understand why you don't want any of the s and z. In that case, I don't think you will find RE400 or RE600 to fit your need. I'll suggest to you TDK BA200 instead.

 

p/s there is no such model as UM2X. You mean either UM2 or UM3X.

post #308 of 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimsonny View Post

agree completely, no sibilance to my ears. the only person who found sibilance is tinyman so maybe he is sensitive at a different frequency!

Swim, you took that out of context. I was talking to someone who was sensitive to sibilance. He found the PFE1xx to be sibilant, so I cross referenced the "sibilance" with the PFE. Although I don't find either particularly sibilant, I can understand people who are sensitive to it to find the RE400 sibilant. I merely walked outside my own persona and tried to step into the shoes of someone who was sensitive to it.

EDIT: I could have sworn I said I didn't hear sibilance in the RE400 personally, but could understand others that would.
Edited by tinyman392 - 1/29/13 at 2:53pm
post #309 of 2523

@ClieOS

So, do you think the RE600 is an overall upgrade to the RE272 in terms of detail and soundstage? Or more of a sidegrade?

post #310 of 2523
I found the re400 so polite, I can't imagine someone having sibilance issues with it.
post #311 of 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

I have PFE for years, but I don't consider it to be particularly sibilant. Sibilance is to me the excessiveness of sss... and zzz... There is suppose to be some s and z on recording and the IEM should reproduce them correctly. Sibilance is to me the unnatural occurrence or prolongation of s and z, which is something I find on EX700 or Adagio V, but not on PFE grey filter or RE400. If all the s and z were suppressed, the vocal will only lose its detail and sounds dull (and sometime dark). If they are more than normal, it will turn gainy, Too much, then it will be piercing. However, if you are looking for a fatigue-free sound, then I can understand why you don't want any of the s and z. In that case, I don't think you will find RE400 or RE600 to fit your need. I'll suggest to you TDK BA200 instead.

 

p/s there is no such model as UM2X. You mean either UM2 or UM3X.

ah, well the recording never sounded sibilant on my HD600/650's and when I tried it with some of my other headphones I did find it a tad sibilant. worked really good with most other recordings, but I'm not able to have some of my favourite albums re-recorded tongue.gif no, okay. I can agree with you a bit there about sibilance. just never had the problem with a lot of headphones so it was a bit annoying. so many headphones seem to have elevated treble now.

well I might just be overly sensitive to sibilance/treble... redface.gif but at the same time I can find something like Sennheiser HD650 a bit too tame, with not tight enough bass for my liking. HE-500 on the other hand hit a lot of sweet spots for me.

 

either way, I really wish I could demo them. it might sound weird but RE272 didn't really have that problem for me, and you say RE-600 are... more or less bright? I didn't quite compare them side by side so I might have been extra tired at some point though... so take it with a grain of salt. biggrin.gif

 

will check out TDK BA200! thanks

really looking for something with decent bass, nice smooth mids for vocals, preferably a bit forward, as well as a nice treble that doesn't pierce.

 

thanks again! (and yeah, UM2 RC it is... sorry about that)

post #312 of 2523
I own the 262, ZERO and now the 400 so I'll post my thoughts later this week. The 400 is not sibilant at all. I got rid of the Vsonic gr07 for being too sibilant, but this one is smooth as they come. I am in love with the new design, btw - best comfort and isolation I've had among the hifimans thus far.
post #313 of 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

This should be a first: the final version of both RE400 (left) and RE600 (right)

removed pic

For those who want a quick impression: RE600 is very close to RE400, but richer in detail, more upfront and musical though not as open in soundstage. I would think RE400 is closer (though not totally) to stage monitor tuning in a neutral way, while RE600 is more emotionally involved in comparison.

Thanks for the pic and heads up on these models a few months ago in my thread, ClieOS. What tips are you using? The ones they ship with (shown in your pic) were very comfortable and isolation was surprisingly fantastic, almost like an etymotic.

Ps. Sorry for the double post, not sure how to multi quote on the ipad.
post #314 of 2523

My Re-400 just shipped today, and I still have my RE-0 and 262's. 
 

post #315 of 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohannLiebert View Post

@ClieOS

So, do you think the RE600 is an overall upgrade to the RE272 in terms of detail and soundstage? Or more of a sidegrade?

Two different beasts. I haven't really heard any IEM that can beat RE272 on detail retrieval, and its soundstage is rather good for an analytical sound. RE600 in comparison has almost the opposite sound. Instead of focusing on being analytical and more or less sterile like RE272, RE600 is liquid and musical. The main focus is on the mid and bass. Soundstage is obviously small because of its forwardness but it has a fairly 3D quality in it. It is more enveloping than it is open-ended.

 

I won't say one will trump the other on everything since they both have their own strengths. You can call it a sidegrade but to me the comparison itself is apple and orange.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchzilla View Post

 

....

will check out TDK BA200! thanks

really looking for something with decent bass, nice smooth mids for vocals, preferably a bit forward, as well as a nice treble that doesn't pierce.

 

Sound like you are describing BA200 to me. Hopefully you will like it.

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