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Hifiman IEM's: RE-400 and RE-600 - Page 137

post #2041 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

I'll give it a try this evening as I've also got a Rockbox'd Clip+ - need to track down this track so I can load it.  Worst case scenario I can test it out on my Galaxy SIII.  Also good to note, bass response on these rely pretty heavily on a good seal, otherwise they can sound pretty flat.  You may also want to consider reading up on the Vsonic VSD1 as well.  I've not heard these yet, but I have their bigger brother (GR07) and I think at their current price they may be a good option.  Joker just posted a write up about it on innerfidelity yesterday:

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/more-less-vsonic-vsd1-and-vsd1s

 

Still has a mild V-Shape (less so with the VSD1S variation) but seems like a top contender in the sub-$100 range nevertheless.  I like the RE-400 most for it's mids personally, but it can fare well as an all-arounder.

 

Much appreciated. Is there any legal way I can send you a sample of the track? Maybe if I send you only the first twenty seconds?

Another track that requires rumble to be enjoyed is the "Intro of Breaking Bad"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMt1ILTzCac

The rumble envelopes and packages it into what it should be like. Theres a link to the flac file in the description of the video. I guess that's legal?

 

I've been eyeing the VSD1S. But I wanted my next iem to blow my V shaped mind. :o

Hadn't read |joker|s writeup. Thanks for that. Might get this for my girl though.

post #2042 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

I meant the mini double flange (where the flanges are close to one another) and not the larger double flange, if that's what you mean.  I know HiFiMan recommends those and they do sound good (and I can get a pretty good seal too) but I think larger bore tips just work a bit better.  Those tips look good and inexpensive, and maybe similar to the stock hybrids that came with my GR07 - I ended up with a ton of left over tips from when I had my RE-ZERO, mostly from Meelectronics, that all fit the RE-400 perfectly.  Most IEMs are prone to changes with different tips, so that's a relatively inexpensive way to passively tune the sound and comfort to your liking :D Man, I've tried so many different tips in my universal IEM journey lol.  I think my next portable purchase is going to be cIEM and just get it over with... ;)

yea i mean the ones that comes stock installed, those seal well for me i use them for my monster turbines to drops some bass and help with the treble extension while opening the mids a bit 

post #2043 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

I meant the mini double flange (where the flanges are close to one another) and not the larger double flange, if that's what you mean.  I know HiFiMan recommends those and they do sound good (and I can get a pretty good seal too) but I think larger bore tips just work a bit better.  Those tips look good and inexpensive, and maybe similar to the stock hybrids that came with my GR07 - I ended up with a ton of left over tips from when I had my RE-ZERO, mostly from Meelectronics, that all fit the RE-400 perfectly.  Most IEMs are prone to changes with different tips, so that's a relatively inexpensive way to passively tune the sound and comfort to your liking :D Man, I've tried so many different tips in my universal IEM journey lol.  I think my next portable purchase is going to be cIEM and just get it over with... ;)

haha i know what your feeling, i find theres some many pros and cons with each and its hard to find one i prefer more than the other, i find myself switching all the time.

 

this makes the tips get looser and looser =( but its a cheap way to entertain yourself, i'm on a tight student budget..=(

post #2044 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom22 View Post
 

 

i haven't come across a iem that has short bass decay while having that rumble

 

the re400s decay is medium imo i heard faster and slower too 

 

my turbines have a bigger rumble but it feels a bit slow-medium because of the huge bass, if it wasn't as big i think i would percieve it similar to the re400s. plus the bass is not as tight as the re400s 

 

re400s is just as it is a lean sounding, very slight warmish tone (with the stock biflange), transperent sound. if you want more bass try narrower tips first before playing with eq

 

like sony hybrids or the ones i posted above its called "awei replacement tips" go find your size (its cheap to play around with) and i haven't come across a decent eq app that makes my iems sound better, it always ruins something when i fix something else, the sound is a "unnatural" plus the only one i did like eats away at my battery so much its ridiculous unless ur charging while listening

"Unnatural" is the perfect word. EQ apps always seem to upset the balance way more than intended. The rockbox EQ is one of the better ones. The "unnatural-ness" is present but lesser.

 

Will look into the awei tips too. Thanks.

 

PS: Have you tried ViPER4Android FX?

post #2045 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by getclikinagas View Post
 

"Unnatural" is the perfect word. EQ apps always seem to upset the balance way more than intended. The rockbox EQ is one of the better ones. The "unnatural-ness" is present but lesser.

 

Will look into the awei tips too. Thanks.

 

PS: Have you tried ViPER4Android FX?

i actually haven't i've used accudio- works well but eats away the battery, denon was bad, equ was not good either, i paid for equalizer, i expected a lot more since i paid for it but it honestly did not sound good at all, the interface was nice same with the customer service but the actual eq was really bad (i over emphasized the bass boost just to play around with it, you have to exaggerate the frequency response for it to make an difference) but it was soo muddy. now i just don't bother

post #2046 of 2593
Forgive my laziness, but how are the RE400 compared to the RE0?
post #2047 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by pngwn View Post

Forgive my laziness, but how are the RE400 compared to the RE0?

Similar trademark HiFiMan sound, a wee bit warmer with more bass body/texture and less treble presence (i.e. smoother, more forgiving) but retains a very high level of detail.  Fit and finish is an improvement IMO.  I've only heard the RE0 briefly, but I owned the RE-ZERO for several months and while my impression is from memory since I didn't own them at the same time, I feel that the RE-400 is better overall.

post #2048 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by getclikinagas View Post
 

 

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

 

A part of my music collection consists of hip-hop instrumentals and it would be great to know I can boost the low end without distorting it. I do most of my listening on a rockboxed clip+.

 

As an example : In the following track, there's a bass note just after the 8th second. I want to "feel" that bit. I imagine on the RE-400 I could hear it, but not "feel it". If it wouldn't be too much of a bother could you listen to the first 10 or 12 seconds and tell me your impression? I'd be very grateful.

 

 

 

 

Reason I want to purchase the RE-400 : I only owned <50$, V shaped iems in the past and they've left me wanting when listening to certain kinds of music. I have 100$s this time round and I want this to be my entry into the relatively balanced world. 

I found this track and uploaded it to my Clip+ last night.  I thought the RE-400 was pretty satisfying for my taste in stock configuration and with the additional felt damper that I normally implement, but I also tried some mild EQ in the bass region.  It does improve presence and doesn't appear to have any major negative consequences overall apart from changing the tonal balance (as expected).  No noticeable distortion that I could detect.  You get a better sense of impact from bassier tracks, but it doesn't rumble or present itself quite the way, say, my GR07 does (since I had that as comparison).  You'll be hard pressed to find an IEM where you can feel the bass like you would with speakers or full sized headphones without it overwhelming the rest of the FR simply because of the nature of bass frequencies, the tiny drivers involved and them being in the ear canal.  The RE-400 is very linear, almost mid-forward in presentation, so you may find yourself getting lost in vocals and other instrumentation before tapping your toes to the beat like with a more bass-oriented IEM or headphone.  I would have to suggest reading up on a few other IEM options like the GR07, EPH-100 and maybe the FXT90 in this instance because I think they may be more suitable for your music preference while still retaining a fairly neutral FR like the RE-400 does.  They are all fairly equal in technical ability IMO.  Still, I have no doubt that you'd enjoy the RE-400 for all of it's other positive qualities. :cool: Hope that helps some!

 

Edit:

 

Joker's reviews for quick reference on those mentioned above:

 

http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/vsonic-gr07/

http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/vsonic-gr07-bass-edition/

http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/jvc-ha-fxt90/

http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/yamaha-eph-100/


Edited by modulor - 10/30/13 at 10:30am
post #2049 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

I found this track and uploaded it to my Clip+ last night.  I thought the RE-400 was pretty satisfying for my taste in stock configuration and with the additional felt damper that I normally implement, but I also tried some mild EQ in the bass region.  It does improve presence and doesn't appear to have any major negative consequences overall apart from changing the tonal balance (as expected).  No noticeable distortion that I could detect.  You get a better sense of impact from bassier tracks, but it doesn't rumble or present itself quite the way, say, my GR07 does (since I had that as comparison).  You'll be hard pressed to find an IEM where you can feel the bass like you would with speakers or full sized headphones without it overwhelming the rest of the FR simply because of the nature of bass frequencies, the tiny drivers involved and them being in the ear canal.  The RE-400 is very linear, almost mid-forward in presentation, so you may find yourself getting lost in vocals and other instrumentation before tapping your toes to the beat like with a more bass-oriented IEM or headphone.  I would have to suggest reading up on a few other IEM options like the GR07, EPH-100 and maybe the FXT90 in this instance because I think they may be more suitable for your music preference while still retaining a fairly neutral FR like the RE-400 does.  They are all fairly equal in technical ability IMO.  Still, I have no doubt that you'd enjoy the RE-400 for all of it's other positive qualities. :cool: Hope that helps some!

 

That is exactly what I love about neutral headphones. A few months back, I was a self proclaimed bass-head.

Fast forward to now and I find the bass just as important as the rest, maybe less so :eek:

post #2050 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

I found this track and uploaded it to my Clip+ last night.  I thought the RE-400 was pretty satisfying for my taste in stock configuration and with the additional felt damper that I normally implement, but I also tried some mild EQ in the bass region.  It does improve presence and doesn't appear to have any major negative consequences overall apart from changing the tonal balance (as expected).  No noticeable distortion that I could detect.  You get a better sense of impact from bassier tracks, but it doesn't rumble or present itself quite the way, say, my GR07 does (since I had that as comparison).  You'll be hard pressed to find an IEM where you can feel the bass like you would with speakers or full sized headphones without it overwhelming the rest of the FR simply because of the nature of bass frequencies, the tiny drivers involved and them being in the ear canal.  The RE-400 is very linear, almost mid-forward in presentation, so you may find yourself getting lost in vocals and other instrumentation before tapping your toes to the beat like with a more bass-oriented IEM or headphone.  I would have to suggest reading up on a few other IEM options like the GR07, EPH-100 and maybe the FXT90 in this instance because I think they may be more suitable for your music preference while still retaining a fairly neutral FR like the RE-400 does.  They are all fairly equal in technical ability IMO.  Still, I have no doubt that you'd enjoy the RE-400 for all of it's other positive qualities. :cool: Hope that helps some!

i have no experience with the gr07 but i think the gro07 bass edition would suit his preferencs a bit more. i'm always itching to pull the trigger on the gr07 or the BE edition ( i want a bit more faster bass and impact than the re400s, but the re400s are fantastic the way they are) Plus i love the look of the cable and look of the gr07. I have money always saved up, but i'm happy with my re400, turbines and my noontec zoros so theres no need to get really. but i'm always just soo curious how they will sound, i'm sure i will love it:tongue_smile: 

post #2051 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom22 View Post
 

i have no experience with the gr07 but i think the gro07 bass edition would suit his preferencs a bit more. i'm always itching to pull the trigger on the gr07 or the BE edition ( i want a bit more faster bass and impact than the re400s, but the re400s are fantastic the way they are) Plus i love the look of the cable and look of the gr07. I have money always saved up, but i'm happy with my re400, turbines and my noontec zoros so theres no need to get really. but i'm always just soo curious how they will sound, i'm sure i will love it:tongue_smile: 

I've owned both, and they are very similar actually comparing them side by side.  You get a bit more impact with the BE though, which is pretty satisfying and they get your heart racing :D Though, when compared to the RE-400, the MKII does have noticeably more bass weight and presence still.  The GR07s drivers are quicker, and they  are built like a tank.  Coming from the RE-400 though, if you like their treble presentation, the GR07 may be a deterrent there as they have more sparkle and are prone to sibilance due to being a bit peakier overall (and to a lesser extent the BE).  It certainly works well on some tracks though.  I typically prefer the more laid back (in comparison) treble of the RE-400 though.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post
 

 

That is exactly what I love about neutral headphones. A few months back, I was a self proclaimed bass-head.

Fast forward to now and I find the bass just as important as the rest, maybe less so :eek:

Haha, this is basically my story.

post #2052 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

I found this track and uploaded it to my Clip+ last night.  I thought the RE-400 was pretty satisfying for my taste in stock configuration and with the additional felt damper that I normally implement, but I also tried some mild EQ in the bass region.  It does improve presence and doesn't appear to have any major negative consequences overall apart from changing the tonal balance (as expected).  No noticeable distortion that I could detect.  You get a better sense of impact from bassier tracks, but it doesn't rumble or present itself quite the way, say, my GR07 does (since I had that as comparison).

Thank you very very much for the taking the effort :smile:. Did the added presence make the track more enjoyable?

 

I do listen to bassy music, but I don't need every note to rattle my skull. But a slight rumble when called for, and a nice healthy decay, packages a track and gives it life and body. It's the same for all kinds of music, isn't it? 

A deep piano note or a hum or a bass guitar needs that body and warmth. Does the RE-400 make them sound "natural"?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
You'll be hard pressed to find an IEM where you can feel the bass like you would with speakers or full sized headphones without it overwhelming the rest of the FR simply because of the nature of bass frequencies, the tiny drivers involved and them being in the ear canal.  

Very very true. But I never get that kind intimacy from speakers. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
The RE-400 is very linear, almost mid-forward in presentation, so you may find yourself getting lost in vocals and other instrumentation before tapping your toes to the beat like with a more bass-oriented IEM or headphone.  

Exactly why I want them. This is definitely new territory for me. Makes it more exciting though :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
I would have to suggest reading up on a few other IEM options like the GR07, EPH-100 and maybe the FXT90 in this instance because I think they may be more suitable for your music preference while still retaining a fairly neutral FR like the RE-400 does.  They are all fairly equal in technical ability IMO.  Still, I have no doubt that you'd enjoy the RE-400 for all of it's other positive qualities. :cool: Hope that helps some!
 

Those would definitely be the safer choice. The saddest part is, I am limited by availability and my budget. I was considering the Fidelio S2, XBA-30, EPH-100, RE-400 . But they aren't available where I am. And getting them from abroad entails close to 40% in customs duty alone.(Possibly an extra bribe here n there).  Ex: Fidelio S2 and EPH-100 would cost me 212$. GR07 around 265$

I was considering the Sony XBA-H1(100$ here). It has my preferred sound sig but I'm looking to test new waters here plus detailing and clarity aren't strong points in the H1.

The RE-400 just became available last week for 100$ with warranty.Within budget, hardly any negative reviews, new waters, will definitely enjoy a lot of my mid centric music, 

The only thing left to know was whether I could add a little bass presence if I felt like some tracks needed it. Also, for my hard hitting hip hop instrumentals I can always use my Brainwavz R1.

Did all this make sense, or do you think I'm making an error of judgment?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

.......and with the additional felt damper that I normally implement.....

I may come off as ignorant, but these dampers do what exactly? Do they tone down certain frequencies, therefore making the rest of the spectrum for prominent? Do they come with these iems?

I see these in the product image 

post #2053 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by getclikinagas View Post
 

1. Thank you very very much for the taking the effort :smile:. Did the added presence make the track more enjoyable?

 

2. I do listen to bassy music, but I don't need every note to rattle my skull. But a slight rumble when called for, and a nice healthy decay, packages a track and gives it life and body. It's the same for all kinds of music, isn't it? 

A deep piano note or a hum or a bass guitar needs that body and warmth. Does the RE-400 make them sound "natural"?

 

3. I may come off as ignorant, but these dampers do what exactly? Do they tone down certain frequencies, therefore making the rest of the spectrum for prominent? Do they come with these iems?

I see these in the product image 

1. Yes and no...it is a bit more fun and engaging, but it does detract from the midrange a tad as a result of offsetting the tonal balance.  Different flavors to experiment with. :cool:

 

2. This is what I learned in my journey - quality is in most cases more important than quantity when it comes to bass, and over time I found the importance of neutrality and tonal balance as a big part of detail retrieval over the whole FR.  I listen to such a wide variety of music that it's impossible (so far) to find a single IEM solution, but given some compromises that are to be expected I find the RE-400 to be one of the better all-around choices.  I feel it will also show you the importance of the midrange and how good it can sound in this price range (IMO of course, I've not heard a ton of examples for comparison).  They are capable of rumble and tactile bass, but it's not overly present...it's tight and controlled, which I've found is a good quality in most cases.  They don't have the most body or warmth, but I feel they're the most natural sounding IEM I've heard so far.  The GR07 is very technically capable and has great clarity in the treble, but it sounds more unnatural to me most of the time for example...but I still have to give it the upper hand in bass.

 

3. Sorry to not clarify - those are the stock filters in the picture, and they are relatively transparent acoustically themselves unless you double them up.  Their prime function is to protect from anything going into the nozzle.  Behind them is a piece of acoustic damping foam, but in some experimentation I've cut a small circle of felt for each side to place between the foam and the stock filter which darkens the signature a bit (a little more lower mids and bass but it's not been measured so I'm not sure the exact results).  I've been debating whether I like it better or not, but they are currently back in as of yesterday.  Here are some measurements so you get an idea of what's going on with the various damping methods:

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-awcMTDGjOo0/UTMI-_sMNiI/AAAAAAAAFXM/l_evA8UTwdI/s640/acous_damp.png

 

Also, some more technical data where that came from: http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2013/03/hifiman-re-400-evolution-or-devolution.html

post #2054 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

2. This is what I learned in my journey - quality is in most cases more important than quantity when it comes to bass, and over time I found the importance of neutrality and tonal balance as a big part of detail retrieval over the whole FR.  I listen to such a wide variety of music that it's impossible (so far) to find a single IEM solution, but given some compromises that are to be expected I find the RE-400 to be one of the better all-around choices.  I feel it will also show you the importance of the midrange and how good it can sound in this price range (IMO of course, I've not heard a ton of examples for comparison).  They are capable of rumble and tactile bass, but it's not overly present...it's tight and controlled, which I've found is a good quality in most cases.  They don't have the most body or warmth, but I feel they're the most natural sounding IEM I've heard so far.  The GR07 is very technically capable and has great clarity in the treble, but it sounds more unnatural to me most of the time for example...but I still have to give it the upper hand in bass.

 

3. Sorry to not clarify - those are the stock filters in the picture, and they are relatively transparent acoustically themselves unless you double them up.  Their prime function is to protect from anything going into the nozzle.  Behind them is a piece of acoustic damping foam, but in some experimentation I've cut a small circle of felt for each side to place between the foam and the stock filter which darkens the signature a bit (a little more lower mids and bass but it's not been measured so I'm not sure the exact results).  I've been debating whether I like it better or not, but they are currently back in as of yesterday.  Here are some measurements so you get an idea of what's going on with the various damping methods:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-awcMTDGjOo0/UTMI-_sMNiI/AAAAAAAAFXM/l_evA8UTwdI/s640/acous_damp.png

Also, some more technical data where that came from: http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2013/03/hifiman-re-400-evolution-or-devolution.html

 

2. Exactly what I want to experience.

I imagine most of the RE-400 owners are coming from fairly neutral phones so they find the 'relative' slight warmth appealing. I'm heading over here from basscamp, so I'm not sure about how I'll feel. 

The fact that you are a "converted basshead" makes your advice easier to swallow :D

 

3, I'm not going to even pretend I understand completely what those graphs mean. So the damping affects the upper-mids and beyond. I'll keep your felt mod in mind though.

 

@modulor, @Tom22... Thank you very very much for all your help and advice. I hope to get my RE-400 in the next 2-3 weeks. I'll be back with my impressions, whether positive or otherwise. Bass quality! Here I come! :ksc75smile:

post #2055 of 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by getclikinagas View Post
 

 

2. Exactly what I want to experience.

I imagine most of the RE-400 owners are coming from fairly neutral phones so they find the 'relative' slight warmth appealing. I'm heading over here from basscamp, so I'm not sure about how I'll feel. 

The fact that you are a "converted basshead" makes your advice easier to swallow :D

 

3, I'm not going to even pretend I understand completely what those graphs mean. So the damping affects the upper-mids and beyond. I'll keep your felt mod in mind though.

 

@modulor, @Tom22... Thank you very very much for all your help and advice. I hope to get my RE-400 in the next 2-3 weeks. I'll be back with my impressions, whether positive or otherwise. Bass quality! Here I come! :ksc75smile:

Any time - glad to help!  I think the HiFiMan IEMs are an entry point for more neutral signatures for a good number of people.  My first 'nice' IEM was actually the RE-ZERO, which at the time I felt was too bass-shy without a bit of EQ.  If you are used to a bassier signature, you're definitely going to have to give these 1-2 weeks minimum exclusive head-time - that'd be my recommendation anyway to get adjusted to the new signature.  I'd be interested to hear your initial impression, then a 2 week update. :cool: 

 

I wouldn't exclusively call my former self a 'basshead' but bass was definitely a higher priority and something I always worried about lacking in neutral signatures.  I don't feel this is the case anymore, but it definitely took trying out a few different IEMs and headphones.  RE-400 is a great place to start exploring IMO - very technically capable, very transparent and great extension on both ends of the spectrum.  Not necessarily exciting in that it gets your heart pumping, but exciting in that you can hear more details in a very clean manner.  My revelation came when I first heard the HE-500 - I was shocked because while it's quite neutral with tight/quick decaying bass, that bass is definitely present and the large drives can move some serious air.  You can feel the bass without resonance (only textured by itself I guess is one way to say it) and it goes down to 20Hz audibly.  Impressive bass presentation both in terms of quantity and quality, but I still have a soft spot for some powerful, resonating bass boom...it's all relative and depends on the listener, content and situation I suppose.

 

I'll try to give a quick explication of that first graph I posted - on both charts, the horizontal measurement is the frequency (from 20Hz up to 20kHz in the first chart, and deviations from the stock measurement in the second) and the vertical is dB level (loudness/sound intensity).  Basically, the first chat is the frequency response curve with total dB level measured at each frequency, and the effects that the different variables being tested.  The second shows a little more detail because of finer increments - the reference stock measurement is equated to 0dB, and the others show the deviations above and below it depending on the different variables being tested.  You can more easily see the differences here - adding a piece of felt/microfiber cloth/handkerchief drops the 6k region from stock by about 4dB, while removing the filter and foam and leaving an empty nozzle will raise that same area from stock by about 6dB.  Everything below 1k is relatively unaffected.  Adding more acoustic damping will lower the treble, which in turn elevates the mids and bass relatively.  Think of it as a physical EQ tuning.

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