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post #31 of 41

I think the danger lies in referring to a band or even a particular album as existing within only one genre of music, and that's where people oftentimes 'make' a genre more nebulous than it actually is. (Though let's not forget that genres are already pretty nebulous in the first place.) ferday touched on this with Swans above--we may now think of Swans as a firm post-rock band, but they came out of the same NYC no-wave scene that Glenn Branca and Sonic Youth did, and you can trace that heavy noise-rock influence throughout most of their work. Their newest album, The Seer, is as much a drone album as it is a post-rock album. Even GY!BE, the 'ultimate' post-rock band has heavy drone, ambient, and chamber leanings, which all can and obviously do exist independent of post-rock elsewhere. (And, to throw a spanner into the works, like a lot of post-rock bands, they heavily self-identify as 'punk rock.') 

 

So, now that I've restated everything ferday said above, just in my own way lol, I've gotta ask--any 'post-hip hop' fans out there? I figure that if you take what the 'post' means in post-rock (or what it feels like it means, if we choose not to quantify it), that you could apply 'post' to any major genre and find examples of that genre that work 'within' the expectations of the 'post' label. For example, listen to the album Absence, by Dalek. Hip hop yes, but in my iTunes I also have it marked as 'Ambient' and 'Noise.' Just like it's been mentioned that in post-rock the guitars are used to facilitate texture rather than their 'standard' use, so the 'beats' (such as they are) on Absence are almost all texture and very little traditional hip hop. Just throwing that out there. ^^

post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsonata View Post

I think the danger lies in referring to a band or even a particular album as existing within only one genre of music, and that's where people oftentimes 'make' a genre more nebulous than it actually is. (Though let's not forget that genres are already pretty nebulous in the first place.) ferday touched on this with Swans above--we may now think of Swans as a firm post-rock band, but they came out of the same NYC no-wave scene that Glenn Branca and Sonic Youth did, and you can trace that heavy noise-rock influence throughout most of their work. Their newest album, The Seer, is as much a drone album as it is a post-rock album. Even GY!BE, the 'ultimate' post-rock band has heavy drone, ambient, and chamber leanings, which all can and obviously do exist independent of post-rock elsewhere. (And, to throw a spanner into the works, like a lot of post-rock bands, they heavily self-identify as 'punk rock.') 

 

So, now that I've restated everything ferday said above, just in my own way lol, I've gotta ask--any 'post-hip hop' fans out there? I figure that if you take what the 'post' means in post-rock (or what it feels like it means, if we choose not to quantify it), that you could apply 'post' to any major genre and find examples of that genre that work 'within' the expectations of the 'post' label. For example, listen to the album Absence, by Dalek. Hip hop yes, but in my iTunes I also have it marked as 'Ambient' and 'Noise.' Just like it's been mentioned that in post-rock the guitars are used to facilitate texture rather than their 'standard' use, so the 'beats' (such as they are) on Absence are almost all texture and very little traditional hip hop. Just throwing that out there. ^^

 

As I said, genres, by definition, never truly encapsulate a band's sound and may even now be useless.

 

Previously, a paper magazine had to describe how a band (or artiste) sounded. I would argue that's no longer required. On-line magazines/fanzines/whatever can easily point one in the direction of a music sample whilst giving a textual idea of the sound therein, leaving it up to the listener whether he/she enjoys the music. Good paper magazines will only survive because the writing (and photography) is good. A good writer can reference music without having to pigeon-hole it totally.

 

Genres are dead.

 

popcorn.gif

post #33 of 41

As a slightly OCD library worker who loves obsessing over genres in my media library, I hope genres never die. ^^

post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsonata View Post

As a slightly OCD library worker who loves obsessing over genres in my media library, I hope genres never die. ^^

amen, genres are fun to obsess about.  i don't take them seriously outside of my own personal experience, but in my own little world i cannot survive without them!

post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsonata View Post

As a slightly OCD library worker who loves obsessing over genres in my media library, I hope genres never die. ^^


I'm slightly OCD about tagging my media library, but genres are one thing I never tag. I don't have enough time in my life to decide how to tag that Frank Zappa album (for example) that covers 3 different genres in one song, much less over the entire album.

post #36 of 41

Man, you think Frank Zappa is bad. Try tagging Naked City lol. ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesy1969 View Post


I'm slightly OCD about tagging my media library, but genres are one thing I never tag. I don't have enough time in my life to decide how to tag that Frank Zappa album (for example) that covers 3 different genres in one song, much less over the entire album.

post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsonata View Post

Man, you think Frank Zappa is bad. Try tagging Naked City lol. ^^

 

I did only use Zappa as an example! Most John Zorn work is difficult to define but yes, something like "You Will Be Shot" would take maybe a few lines of genre definition - jazz/lounge-core/hardcore/noise/experimental/j-core/grindcore.

 

I think maybe we're getting off-topic now and I will bow out silently having put several cats amongst a couple of aging, infirm pigeons.

post #38 of 41

Yep, Zorn's releases have more genre tags than do anything else in my library, I'm pretty certain. At any rate, ok, back to being on-topic...

post #39 of 41

My first full experience concerning post rock was a Mogwai concert in '07. That was the time of Mr.Beast. The album is still fantastic! The Hawk is Howling after that didn't come even close.

 

Mr. Beast and Cult of Luna's Eternal Kingdom are still my two absolute favourites. GY!BEs Skinny fists and ISIS' Wavering Radiant get some play too among others.

 

Funny how you brought up Ash Borer as post rock, I wouldn't have thought of that. The first LP was probably more on the raw and ascetic side (can't find the proper word here, something brutal) but this second might fit your description quite well:) It'll soon be out on vinyl with a different master if someone's interested. I know I am!

post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnupiima View Post

My first full experience concerning post rock was a Mogwai concert in '07. That was the time of Mr.Beast. The album is still fantastic! The Hawk is Howling after that didn't come even close.

 

Mr. Beast and Cult of Luna's Eternal Kingdom are still my two absolute favourites. GY!BEs Skinny fists and ISIS' Wavering Radiant get some play too among others.

 

Funny how you brought up Ash Borer as post rock, I wouldn't have thought of that. The first LP was probably more on the raw and ascetic side (can't find the proper word here, something brutal) but this second might fit your description quite well:) It'll soon be out on vinyl with a different master if someone's interested. I know I am!

the first ash borer was to me more straight ahead black metal (and great for what it is), but cold of ages is so post rock influenced that i have no options but to place it beside GY!BE and others in my favorite post rock albums.

 

i agree with you 100% on mr. beast, mogwai's triumph IMO.  i was never into cult of luna but starting to listen more and more, eternal kingdom is a fantastic piece of work!

post #41 of 41
If you like the heavy sound of cult of luna, you should check Khoma, same guitarist Who brings his thick riffs but with a clear vocalist, very addictive band...
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