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Analog Squared Paper Discussion Thread. - Page 95

post #1411 of 3704

Very disappointing news, so again my apologies for unintentionally offending your sensibilities.

 

Andy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post

dear thread members,

 

not to come into conflict with my own feelings i herewith announce that i personally will take care of the uk distribution of my cleaning kits.

post #1412 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post

could not resist to listen to the setup as posted above (without any tube damping) to get a first impression.

 

i must say i agree with ianmedium that this is a great improvement. not to mention the more on bass impact, precision and pin point imaging but listening to benny goodman, 40th anniversary celebration, rocky racoon, and bob marley, legend, no woman to cry, the 3-dimensionality is unbelievable, width and deep, you have the feeling you could walk through, exactly seeing the way you have to go, the distances etc. .

 

This is VERY interesting.  And I must say that I prefer damping this solution better than putting damping foam or rubber on/around the tubes because the later solution ruin the wonderfull look of this amp.

 

As for the  "wooden plate with damper feet" is is a normal wooden plate (like for cutting meat or bread & bought in kitchen accessory shop) or something bought from a High-End Hifi shop ? And for the damper feets, how did you made them ?  Is it something like those "ceramic cones" for example that got very good reviews and are at a reasonable cost ? 

 

post #1413 of 3704

it's just a normal wooden plate for kitchen use and standard rubber feet you can buy and used everywhere for cd players, amplifiers or similar devices.

 

better parts will be provided for my cradle.


Edited by GermanGuy - 8/1/13 at 9:49am
post #1414 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post

it's just a nomal wooden plate for kitchen use and standard rubber feet you can buy and used everywhere for cd players, amplifiers or similar devices.

 

better parts will be provided for my cradle.

OK, good, but I believe that you should look at those ceramic cones that apparently are giving a real plus...

post #1415 of 3704

Good European website for purchasing the cones and other damping equipment from -

 

 http://www.hifi-damping.com/

 

- just purchased a set of three CA Cones XS and will report back regarding effectiveness. I expect to be eating humble pie soon.  redface.gif

 

Andy. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

OK, good, but I believe that you should look at those ceramic cones that apparently are giving a real plus...

post #1416 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by smial1966 View Post

Good European website for purchasing the cones and other damping equipment from -

 http://www.hifi-damping.com/


- just purchased a set of three CA Cones XS and will report back regarding effectiveness. I expect to be eating humble pie soon.  redface.gif


Andy. 
But... Why do they sell by 3 rather than 4 ??? Don t we need 4 cônes for a stable rest on the ground ?
post #1417 of 3704
Good point. Though some maintain that using supports in a triangular pattern underneath equipment is beneficial, hence selling the cones in sets of 3 I suppose.

Andy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

But... Why do they sell by 3 rather than 4 ??? Don t we need 4 cônes for a stable rest on the ground ?
post #1418 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

But... Why do they sell by 3 rather than 4 ??? Don t we need 4 cônes for a stable rest on the ground ?

Apparently 3 is the best way sonically and for stability. I tried three oak cones with my amp and then four and found no difference in sound quality and personally found four more stable.

As for wooden bases or granite/marble bases. One can spend fortunes on "HiFi" specific ones but unless they have some fancy structure (most are just straight wood or stone) then you can save a fortune and go to your local kitchen store or stone masons as I did and get them for either very little money or free!

A friend of mine who is regarded as one of the worlds best audio reviewers, been reviewing audio for almost forty years uses large butchers blocks to support the power amps he reviews. He uses three metal cones under the equipment point down.

The placement of the cones is important though for transference of vibration from the amp to ground. It is thought best to put the cones under the transformers as that is where most of the electrical energy is apparently.

So in the case of our amp if you lay it flat then the two cones should be at the front each side as that is where the transformers are then either one or two at the back either side of the power jack.
post #1419 of 3704

OK OK, let's assume that we will rest our amp flat on an heavy wood (or granit ) kitchen plate.

 

Then.... should we put the cones (3 or 4) between the AMP and the Wood plate like Ian has tried or UNDER the Wood Kitchen plate like GermanGuy seems to prefer ? ? ? 

post #1420 of 3704
I have clearly failed in an attempt to inject rationality and balance into this thread, as some of the claims made regarding damping/isolation were heading towards hyperbole. So I am deeply sorry if my attempts at humour were misguided and again apologise for any unintended offence caused, but refute your suggestion that I've made many snide or derisory comments, with the one obvious exception that has now been removed.

Andy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

I am sorry Andy, not sure why but I have noticed a lot of snide and derisory comments thinly veiled as humour from you of late particularly aimed at GG and my efforts in exploring the boundaries of damping and isolation of this amp to get the very best from it.

Perhaps instead of snide comments you could actually write about your experiences with this amp and your thoughts as they have been almost zero to date. At least we are trying to inform and be of some use to other owners or potential owners. I don't often bite but your last comment is just rude!

Sorry, but I am just getting a little ticked off at your attitude to myself and GG's efforts in making this an interesting and informative thread!

Edited by smial1966 - 8/1/13 at 9:27am
post #1421 of 3704
If the cones are cheap how about both?
If you know someone who is good at wood turning you could get a piece of oak and have the turn some cones out it or, do as I did and got to your local wood store and see if they have some of the Oak plugs that I got.. For this application the cones only need be a centimeter in diameter at their base.
post #1422 of 3704
Many craft fairs or flea markets have folks selling wooden items and they are usually hobbyists with lathes who could easily fabricate a few cones for you at minimal expense. Moreover, DIY shops often sell wooden cone like items as furniture supports/floor protectors very cheaply.

Cheers,
Andy.

P.S. At £2.50 each these oak cones are the cheapest commercially available ones that I've found - http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/equipment-supports/334-oak-cone-feet-set-of-3.html
Edited by smial1966 - 8/1/13 at 9:36am
post #1423 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

If the cones are cheap how about both?
If you know someone who is good at wood turning you could get a piece of oak and have the turn some cones out it or, do as I did and got to your local wood store and see if they have some of the Oak plugs that I got.. For this application the cones only need be a centimeter in diameter at their base.

 

well, may be, "2 stages cones" is not better than "1 stage cones" !?  Indeed, the question may be : are we just trying to insulate the AMP from the external environment, or as opposite, to evacuate the micro-vibration from the AMP to the external environment by having the cone transmiting the vibration to the outside world ?  :-)

post #1424 of 3704
Andy's suggestions are great and those are indeed the cheapest I have seen oak come feet.

I have been studying the thoughts on damping and isolation a great deal of late as in talking to some of my reviewer friends they think it is even more important with tubes.

All of them have said one company to me but they are expensive hence me trying to find other ways to achieve similar results. The company they all rave about is stillpoints.
The philosophy behind them is to drain electrical vibration in components out of the unit rather than damp it and the way this is done in their application is billets of metal with ball bearings in. These are two peices of metal separated my an elaborate bearing assembly. What this does is convert the electrical vibrations from the amp into heat which is then transferred out through the stillpoints to the surface they are resting on.

That is a fancy ( and very effective, I have heard this system) way of draining the vibrations away from the amp. I have found oak cones or metal or ceramic to do a very good job of something similar.

I still M trying to figure out how to make something akin to stillpoints myself and am close . I am trying to source some bearing races and then have a rod of metal sticking out of the center and a ring of metal on the base of the outer thus replicating in a way the stillpoints. Once I have the bearing assemble I can easily get brass stock from my local model shop for the center on which the amp will rest and then for the outer ring the brass olives I have will work perfectly.

But in the meantime the oak feet work well in draining the energy from the amp.

This newish philosophy goes against the traditional way of rubber feet isolation the amp. That way the amp is isolated from external vibration but all e internal vibration is contained within the amp.

What I have found with the draining method is that there is life and energy to the music rather than a dulling which I found with cork or rubber.
post #1425 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post


But... Why do they sell by 3 rather than 4 ??? Don t we need 4 cônes for a stable rest on the ground ?

 

the reason is the following:

- to exactly define a point, you obviously need exactly one point or cone

- to exactly define a straight line you need two points or cones

- to exactly define a coplanarity (plane) you need exactly three points or cones

 

if you use four points, the fourth point is redundant and could be calculated, but in the case of a fourth cone the fourth cone must exactly fit having very precisely the right height or is not in the same plane.

 

this is the reason why tables with three table legs are always stable but tables with four legs are often not.


Edited by GermanGuy - 8/9/13 at 5:21pm
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