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post #1306 of 3704
Yes, it was like a little life and light left the performance.

Having listened extensively and also finding tubes that were dead quiet I ended up not using the rings anymore.

What I have found very interesting and would love for you to try is that I place a little of that marble i got last week on top of the tube cage. If I leave it on the top end gets a little more air and there is a tiny amount more inner detail than with it off. I now have this little 7cm slab of marble on the top all the time as I love what it does for stringed instruments as well as piano!

Also, the marble base with the 3 oak cones glued to it has proved very worthwhile for similar reasons, really makes the amp shine that tiny bit more!
post #1307 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post

 

this could really be the case, a very good description, just a little, little bit less engaging sound, thought about this while listening to paul simon - graceland.

 

hmmm?

 

p.s. thanks for your statement about the tube rings, at least i will work on that orange colour, maybe black shrink-on tube will help.

 

 

My theory is that there is a full compliment of resonances that our ears/brains hear, but that we don't quite scientifically understand yet. eek.gif

post #1308 of 3704

sharing ideas and experience is great!

 

as we i think agreed that the df91 stage is more important for the fine details and highs and the dl92 more for bass and bass texture i removed the tube rings from the lorenz df96's!

 

i agree it would be worth a try to put something heavy on top of or under the amp. i today did some more research which parts to use for my cradle, for example there are lovely nice and small dampers just some cm in length and compatible to M8 screws, for example available as parts for model racing cars!

 

so this and a heavy marble or metal plate will be part of my cradle!


Edited by GermanGuy - 7/27/13 at 7:49pm
post #1309 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodcans View Post

 

 

My theory is that there is a full compliment of resonances that our ears/brains hear, but that we don't quite scientifically understand yet. eek.gif


yes, it gets more and more difficult to find the real reason for a changing sound, so back to the try and error procedure!

post #1310 of 3704

wow! five members online, reading this thread at the moment!

post #1311 of 3704
Good point WC and GG, I have gone back and forth with all of this for so long. Some tubes benefit more than others with the dampers. I did just try them on the DL92 stage and that improved things with tubes that "tinged" a little, especially if you put the dampers where the Mica's are but in the end after much experimentation I ended up rather having a little ting noise with some tubes when I turned the volume knob and more air and space than the dampers.

I definitely agree through my own trials that it is best to have the warmer tubes in the DL section and the lighter tubes in the DF section on the whole.

The tubes that seem to be the best of all worlds (even more than the Phillips) are the Marconi's though they do ting somewhat, but not when music is being played.. Also, they are just the prettiest tubes ever!

L1010838.JPG
AppleMark
post #1312 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post

wow! five members online, reading this thread at the moment!

Hey, were getting popular!

Posting a picture of the Marconi's has me now itching to pop them back in! I think I will, I love them so much, they just bring so much life to music!
post #1313 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

Good point WC and GG, I have gone back and forth with all of this for so long. Some tubes benefit more than others with the dampers. I did just try them on the DL92 stage and that improved things with tubes that "tinged" a little, especially if you put the dampers where the Mica's are but in the end after much experimentation I ended up rather having a little ting noise with some tubes when I turned the volume knob and more air and space than the dampers.

I definitely agree through my own trials that it is best to have the warmer tubes in the DL section and the lighter tubes in the DF section on the whole.

The tubes that seem to be the best of all worlds (even more than the Phillips) are the Marconi's though they do ting somewhat, but not when music is being played.. Also, they are just the prettiest tubes ever!
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 


L1010838.JPG
AppleMark

 

 

 

 

 

Those are beautiful, Ian. Seriously.

post #1314 of 3704

i love especially the second picture!

post #1315 of 3704
I know, I love them, thankfully they sound as lovely as the look!

I am just about to put them in, cotton gloves are on to protect the transfers and I have decided to leave these in for quite sometime. I will put up with the ting ting noise as it is the only noise they make, silent as the grave otherwise and as I said, they just seem to combine lovely deep tight bass with such air, I am really looking forward to hearing what they sound like with the Mazda's!
post #1316 of 3704
And so, they are in with the Mazda's, warming up for a nice long listening session.. Some Opera tonight I think, well at least some Soprano in the form of Teresa Stich-Randall!

I just fiddled around with this shot of them in action just now!
post #1317 of 3704
OK, so just warming up with the excellent album Krushevo from MA recordings, acoustic guitar does not get better than this beautiful album. The Guitarist uses the body of the instrument as percussion and with this combo (and this is what I was on about with the Marconi's living feeling) the strikes are woody and hollow and the decay of the strike is felt within the body so well vibrating into infinity. Then there is the plucking and brushing of the strings. This combination has so much speed and attack one is able to keep up with the complex structures of the music with great ease, each note, each strum of the string is felt in so much detail but also never forgetting that those individual notes are part of a whole musical picture!

I am going to write to the seller in Spain who sold me these Marconi's and see if he can get hold of anymore. I will be sure to let you know as for me, though not quite as deep as the phillips, for my ears they are the perfect DL92 tube!

Oh, and this is the track I am on about..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY4ewhSh0o&list=PLLbDKU9kW9SaTrfOyydRlW34CrekYyw9m
Edited by ianmedium - 7/27/13 at 8:36pm
post #1318 of 3704

tube rings - influence to the sound:

 

i spent nearly one hour listening to the

 

- lorenz df96 - tung-sol ken rad dl92 combo

- without and with tube rings in different positions

- changing the tube rings or their position on the fly

- WHILE listening to always the same tracks

  (Paul Simon - Songs for the Capeman - Born in Puerto Rico - Bernadette

- (amp and player always on and running).

 

i call the position of the tube rings you see here ´top position´:

 

 

i call the position of the tube rings you see here ´bottom position´:

 

 

the influence of a tube ring to the sound of a specific tube is always the same, but seems to be

 

- stronger in the top position

- less strong in the bottom position

 

in the case of the lorenz df96 the overall sound get slightly sweeter, more relaxing, slightly less sparkle, less bite and impact, but also slightly less air and sense of space.

 

in the case of the tung-sol ken-rad bass has less impact and bite, but sounds cleaner, less boomy, softer, more coherent.

 

using this setup:

 

- lorenz df96 - tube ring bottom position

- tung-sol ken rad dl92 - tube ring top position

 

the tube rings convert this combo to sound less engaging but sweeter and more relaxing just if this were the lorenz df91 - philips dl92 combo (but slightly less airy).

 

i think it is worth a try to test this my tube rings (the only ones i have to test so everything written here is related to only this tube rings) for example with the rather analytical to harsh valvo df92 - valvo dl92 combo, this combo really needs some softening and bass texture.

 

the best way to describe the sound changes when using the tube rings is that they teach a power seller to behave (and sound) like a polite english butler.


Edited by GermanGuy - 7/28/13 at 7:25am
post #1319 of 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post

i think i start to get ill, infected by the tube rolling virus, so here are some very preliminary impressions:

 

valvo df91 - valvo dl92:

 

if the lorenz - philips set is homogenous, this set is analytical like listening with a magnifier glass used to see every and i mean every detail, less bass and bass texture, not so relaxing to listen to, really pronouncing the highs up to a level near to call the sound harsh, but with absolutly precise not to say hard attack. could be a great set for warmer sounding or how to say slower headphones. slighty miss soundstage depth, but no burn in time for the tubes.

 

valvo df91- philips dl92:

 

sound stage depth is back, also the bass weight, but not the perfect match and magic as when listening to the lorenz - philips combo. not pronouncing the highs as much as the valvo - valvo combo, but adding some nice sparkle to the highs, worth a try.

 

lorenz df91 - lorenz dl92:

 

interestingly pronouncing the bass more than the other combos but at the same time sounding unprecise (the word bass porridge came in my mind). not recommended.

 

back to lorenz df91 - philips dl92:

 

all the magic is back, you stop thinking and start listening. can't really explain it completely with words, but up to now this for me is the dream set made in heaven.

 

p.s. please be sure that i will not stop looking for lorenz tubes until found them!

 

today i listened again to the valvo df91 - valvo dl92 combo.

 

i must say that the sound is near to analytical, but not as harsh as the last time. maybe the amp has settled due to the burn in time.

 

the valvo combo really benefits from the tube rings (applied at top position). the idea of harshness has gone, and while very detailed, now much more balanced and homogenous sounding, great clarity.

 

but the bass! a real improvement - bass quality and texture are really improved, bass goes deaper, the decay seems to be much longer and is so swinging and detailed, the whole spectrum cleaned.

 

with tube rings the valvo df91 - valvo dl92 is a great allrounder.


Edited by GermanGuy - 7/28/13 at 11:04am
post #1320 of 3704
GG, I agree completely with your findings with tube rings, I found the same. It will be interesting to see what you end up doing with them. For me in the end what sonic benefits were gained were outweighed by the loss of life and organic nature.

With the Valvo combo, this does not surprise me. I think your finding what I found right at the beginning when the amp was not yet burned in. As the amp burns in I found it became more spacious and open and those more revealing tubes if used completely became a little too analytical for my tastes which is why I ended up experimenting with the warmer tubes in the 3S4 stage and the more revealing tubes in the DF91 stage. That combination just seems to work in harmony with the amp.

Hopefully my multimeter will arrive this week so I can check the bias batteries. I am a month over what Shikada San recommends in checking them (6 months) I wonder what they will be like. There should be at least 1.4v in each battery for the bias to be correct.

On to other things.

I revelled in the Mazda/Marconi combination last night. Just sublime, the perfect combination to my ears of tight bass, liquid treble and creamy mid range. The Marconi's lose a slight amount of bass extension but I can easily live with that due to the quality of the bass.

I should have the Telefunken's arrive later this week hopefully and am very eager to hear what they sound like with the Marconi's after your thoughts on them!
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