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Analog Squared Paper Discussion and Appreciation Thread. - Page 96

post #1426 of 3488
Stillpoints are indeed superb products but as Ian mentions prohibitively expensive.

Finite elemente are a German company that adopts a similar design philosophy to Stillpoints but they use ceramic bearings instead of metal. Here's a quick overview of their approach - http://www.finite-elemente.de/en/accessories/cerafamily/cera_technologie

They make the Cera One, which are 4 small component feet based on the design principles described in the link above. This company currently retail them at £89 for four, which is the cheapest online price that I've found. https://www.audiofreaks.co.uk/boutique/product/ceraone-20/

I don't know how effective the Cera One are but being flat they do offer stability advantages over cones.

Cheers,
Andy.


quote name="ianmedium" url="/t/632518/analog-paper-2-discussion-and-appreciation-thread/1410#post_9667363"]Andy's suggestions are great and those are indeed the cheapest I have seen oak come feet.

I have been studying the thoughts on damping and isolation a great deal of late as in talking to some of my reviewer friends they think it is even more important with tubes.

All of them have said one company to me but they are expensive hence me trying to find other ways to achieve similar results. The company they all rave about is stillpoints.
The philosophy behind them is to drain electrical vibration in components out of the unit rather than damp it and the way this is done in their application is billets of metal with ball bearings in. These are two peices of metal separated my an elaborate bearing assembly. What this does is convert the electrical vibrations from the amp into heat which is then transferred out through the stillpoints to the surface they are resting on.

That is a fancy ( and very effective, I have heard this system) way of draining the vibrations away from the amp. I have found oak cones or metal or ceramic to do a very good job of something similar.

I still M trying to figure out how to make something akin to stillpoints myself and am close . I am trying to source some bearing races and then have a rod of metal sticking out of the center and a ring of metal on the base of the outer thus replicating in a way the stillpoints. Once I have the bearing assemble I can easily get brass stock from my local model shop for the center on which the amp will rest and then for the outer ring the brass olives I have will work perfectly.

But in the meantime the oak feet work well in draining the energy from the amp.

This newish philosophy goes against the traditional way of rubber feet isolation the amp. That way the amp is isolated from external vibration but all e internal vibration is contained within the amp.

What I have found with the draining method is that there is life and energy to the music rather than a dulling which I found with cork or rubber.[/quote]
post #1427 of 3488

i had a look at the website bmichels posted to see their suggestion how to use the cones and their recommendation is similar to how i would use them:

 

- in general the transmission or absorbtion of resonances is bidirectional, so flat or cylinder shaped feet would transmit and in the case of an absorbing material like rubber (transforming vibrations /movement internally into deformation and so heat) partly absorb the resonances / vibration frequencies..

 

- if you use the cones as suggested and they are cone shaped for this reason, the larger diameter side is the side where the amp is placed on.

 

- as result the system is assymetrical with a larger area of contact between amp and cones than base and cones, so there is a better transmission top-down than base-up.

 

- not to absorb but transmit resonances into the base they are made out of ceramics, not rubber.

 

(just my opinion of how it could work)

 

so for DIY feet, cone shaped form and a hard material make sense, but then the base should be able to absorb vibrations.

 

ianmedium - do you know a descriotion or link what the reccomandation for a good base within this resonance transmission model of stillpoints is?


Edited by GermanGuy - 8/1/13 at 5:14pm
post #1428 of 3488
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

OK OK, let's assume that we will rest our amp flat on an heavy wood (or granit ) kitchen plate.

 

Then.... should we put the cones (3 or 4) between the AMP and the Wood plate like Ian has tried or UNDER the Wood Kitchen plate like GermanGuy seems to prefer ? ? ? 


i put the cones under the wood plate because when listening at the moment the wood plate is placed on a small wooden stool and i have only four cones at the moment.

 

but in fact my final setup / cradle will have cones under the base (the base i posted pictures of, the base then will be filled with concrete to be real heavy), and then again cones between base and amp (maybe with a second plate) and then possibly the door stoppers on top.

 

the idea behind is that similar to the construction of turntables you have two layers with different resonance frequencies so very effectively decoupling the amp from any resonances, vibrations or movement of the undergound.


Edited by GermanGuy - 8/1/13 at 11:35am
post #1429 of 3488
Guys,

A very interesting roundup style review webpage of 20 isolation devices - http://www.gcaudio.com/products/reviews/infoisolationoverview_3.html - the 'reviews' are very brief but it's a good starting point to aid further research.

Cheers,
Andy.
post #1430 of 3488
Now this is very 'left field' and decidedly whacky, but magnetic levitation appears to be the new flavour of the month in audio vibration damping, so I've taken one for the team and purchased these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Valab-Magnetic-Levitation-Audio-Vibration-Damping-Feet-4-pcs-/251299717406?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a82a1611e - to directly compare with the Ceraballs.

Comparative listening results after evaluation of both products.

Cheers,
Andy.
Edited by smial1966 - 8/1/13 at 12:40pm
post #1431 of 3488
Quote:
Originally Posted by smial1966 View Post

Now this is very 'left field' and decidedly whacky, but magnetic levitation appears to be the new flavour of the month in audio vibration damping, so I've taken one for the team and purchased these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Valab-Magnetic-Levitation-Audio-Vibration-Damping-Feet-4-pcs-/251299717406?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a82a1611e - to directly compare with the Ceraballs.

Comparative listening results after evaluation of both products.

Cheers,
Andy.

I can't wait to find out your results. Both devices are intriguing!
post #1432 of 3488
OK, so, experimenting with what I have to hand I am now going to try the oak cones round side down into the brass rings. One each under the transformers and one in the middle at the back. Will report back, here are a couple of quick shots to show what I am doing!


AppleMark
post #1433 of 3488
Well, that did not work! I much prefer just the wood directly on the granite. With the brass rings the music lost some energy!
post #1434 of 3488

funy how this thread evolve: after the "tube rolling" mania, the interconnect experiences, now the damping saga...   what next ?  :-)

post #1435 of 3488

internal recableling, change of electronic parts, ceramic tube sockets ... don't know.

 

but i think everything comes together now:

 

tube pin cleaning, a large selection of different tube combos listened to, the best way to dampen the amp, influence of tube damping to the sound, interconnects, everybody here now should be able to customize and finetune the sound exactly as he wants.

 

really a huge amount of work we have done here up to now as team, verifying each others results, coming to clear conclusions and recommendations.


Edited by GermanGuy - 8/2/13 at 2:23am
post #1436 of 3488

i thought it could become a relaxing, lazy last holiday day when this arrived here:

 

 


Edited by GermanGuy - 8/2/13 at 2:55am
post #1437 of 3488

Interconnect arrived today: A short one (10" for 80€) and.. a very short one (2" for 34€).

 

The short one definitively makes a clean set-up, but... I wonder if there can be sonic disavantage to have the AK100 so close to the AMP instead of being 10" away ?  May be négative electro/radio waves influence from one to the other ? Not sure because I can't hear any difference yet...

 

Anyway, I have the impression that they booth improve a little the sound (V/S a plain & long cable), especially in the low frequency.  Effet placebo ?

 

And...as for what is the next step for customisation of our TU-05, I am preparing a surprise for you tongue.gif...  Be patient.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by bmichels - 8/2/13 at 4:16am
post #1438 of 3488

philips df96 - tung-sol ken rad dl92 - first listening impression:

 

as a first impression with 20 minutes of burn-in time i can say that the philips df96 is clear and precisely sounding but i miss the 3-dimentionality, feeling for the space, airy and swinging  sound and the texture of the lorenz df96, so clearly prefering the lorenz df96 - tung-sol ken rad dl92 combo.

post #1439 of 3488
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post

philips df96 - tung-sol ken rad dl92 - first listening impression:

 

as a first impression with 20 minutes of burn-in time i can say that the philips df96 is clear and precisely sounding but i miss the 3-dimentionality, feeling for the space, airy and swinging  sound and the texture of the lorenz df96, so clearly prefering the lorenz df96 - tung-sol ken rad dl92 combo.

 

looks like with your lorenz df96 - tung-sol ken rad dl92 combo, you have reached the end of your quest ? ..... for the tube rolling part wink.gif

 

 

post #1440 of 3488
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

Interconnect arrived today: A short one (10" for 80€) and.. a very short one (2" for 34€).

 

The short one definitively makes a clean set-up, but... I wonder if there can be sonic disavantage to have the AK100 so close to the AMP instead of being 10" away ?  May be négative electro/radio waves influence from one to the other ? Not sure because I can't hear any difference yet...

 

Anyway, I have the impression that they booth improve a little the sound (V/S a plain & long cable), especially in the low frequency.  Effet placebo ?

 

And...as for what is the next step for customisation of our TU-05, I am preparing a surprise for you tongue.gif...  Be patient.

can't wait to read more about your surprise!

 

cables - i had the same experience using high quality copper interconnects.

 

rf interferences - never heard any rf interferences caused by the colorfly c4 and as shown on some of my pictures the c4 is often placed directly on top of the amp.

 

also your player has a full metal body. but you could test this by just letting your player play without interconnect between amp and player, amp on (volume set to minimum) and listen what happens for example when player is near the tubes and then skip to next track repeatingly.


Edited by GermanGuy - 8/2/13 at 5:12am
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