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Audio Technica updates their open headphones "AD" Series: AD2000x, AD1000x, AD900x, AD700x and... - Page 29

post #421 of 1756

Darn I just bought the ad 700's a few months ago. Not sure if the 700x has a huge improvement worth noticing. Hopefully my ad 700 will keep up to par =D.

post #422 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post

By reading these reviews, I'm thinking that the x series is just a cosmetic change. The thicker earpads should give you a bit more bass and a slightly farther away/recessed midrange. The recessed midrange should make the treble a bit more prominent (more subjective than objective). I don't see how the 2000x should sound cleaner, though. The drivers are basically the same as the 2000. Placebo? Burn-in? Or is it just a factor of both of those and the slight changes in the sound signature? I'm interested in seeing some measurements of these headphones. 

 

It's not exactly the Same drivers , if you look at spec there is a slight change ^^

 

Sensitivity : AD2000 : 102 db/ mW , AD2000X : 103db / mW (everything else seams similar from spec view)

 

This slight change means that it's not the same drivers tongue.gif

post #423 of 1756

@ZenEric: Yeah, I don't believe in burn-in either. Well, I do believe in it, but the sonic characteristics that comes with it isn't really noticeable. I think burn-in for most people is their ears adjusting to the sound. 

 

@cute: Hmmm. I think the diffuser is the area around the driver that looks like it's twisted (versus the 2000's more straight look). I don't see how that should improve sonics. It has the same surface area as the 2000, but it's just curved. What's the point of spreading air within the headphone housing if you have an open grill? The air is going to come out regardless. To me, it's more of a cosmetic change than something to improve the sonics. It looks pretty cool, nonetheless. I can see the different voice coil changing the sound characteristics, though. If you guys don't know what a voice coil is, it's the magnet behind the driver with the little opening in the center. Voice coils of different sizes and materials will definitely change the sound characteristics.  Just by going from the reviews on here, the sonic differences between the two doesn't seem that different. If anything, I believe that a slight eq can get one headphone to sound like the other, given that you swap the earpads.

 

@HaVoC-28: I modified my Pro700MKII drivers by cutting out the felt material behind the drivers (all of those little holes). The result was a much more open soundstage, increased midrange, and a slightly brighter treble. I transplanted that driver into the housing of my AD-900s and compared the two with Beyerdynamic Gel earpads installed on the headphone with tissue underneath it. To my surprise, the AD900's driver sounded very similar to the modified pro700mk2 driver. The AD900 had a more toned down midrange, there was more sub-bass impact, and the bass didn't bleed into the other frequencies as much (check sig for more details).

 

The pro700mk2 has a more restrictive white felt behind the driver while the AD900 has a less restrictive black felt behind the driver. The Pro700mk2 has a larger voice coil behind the driver (smaller opening in the middle), and the AD900 has a smaller voice coil with a larger opening in the middle of the driver. Keep in mind that the larger opening on the AD900's is the reason why the midrange was a bit more subdued and the treble was a bit brighter compared to the pro700mk2. The AD900 is rated at 100dB/mW while the pro700mk2 is rated at 106dB/mW. I'm positive that the pro700mk2's drivers weren't 6dB louder than the AD900s. Heck, even with both the pro700mk2 and the ad900 completely stock, and both of them had the same loudness at the same volume. 

 

Now, the reason why I said all of that is because the specs that AT (or any company) gives isn't always representative of the true performance of the headphones. I can assure you that the only difference between the AD900 and the Pro700MKII's drivers is the different felt material behind the driver, different grill color, and the different voice coil sizes. 

 

I believe that AT uses the same diaphragm (got it confused with drivers) on all of their 53mm headphones, but they change the sound characteristics by using different voice coils and felt material. Of course, the actual headphone enclosure ultimately determines the sound characteristics, but companies usually tune the drivers in accordance with the enclosure they're going to be put in, and what model number is slapped on it.

post #424 of 1756
Always wondered, if your going to bother using ultra pure copper in a voice coil, why not just use Silver? I know there are plenty of pure Silver voice coils used in speakers (Audio Note). The price difference when you are talking about coils as small as headphones should me minimal and Silver conducts better.
post #425 of 1756

Does anyone know when the AD900X series is coming to USA resellers?

Not sure if I should just pull the trigger on a pair of AD900's since all the AD900X's are shipped from Japan, and thus a lot more expensive, not sure if it would be worth it or to just wait.

Any opinions? Greatly appreciated!

post #426 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post

By reading these reviews, I'm thinking that the x series is just a cosmetic change. The thicker earpads should give you a bit more bass and a slightly farther away/recessed midrange. The recessed midrange should make the treble a bit more prominent (more subjective than objective). I don't see how the 2000x should sound cleaner, though. The drivers are basically the same as the 2000. Placebo? Burn-in? Or is it just a factor of both of those and the slight changes in the sound signature? I'm interested in seeing some measurements of these headphones. 


Clamp, yes my friends, try to unbend AD2K headband and compare to stock sound. Quite a difference in resolution.

 

Tip: put headband into ice tray for 5 minutes to make it pliable.

post #427 of 1756

I never bent the headband of the AD2000 or AD2000X. No need. Perfect for my huge head.

post #428 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post

@ZenEric: Yeah, I don't believe in burn-in either. Well, I do believe in it, but the sonic characteristics that comes with it isn't really noticeable. I think burn-in for most people is their ears adjusting to the sound. 

 

@cute: Hmmm. I think the diffuser is the area around the driver that looks like it's twisted (versus the 2000's more straight look). I don't see how that should improve sonics. It has the same surface area as the 2000, but it's just curved. What's the point of spreading air within the headphone housing if you have an open grill? The air is going to come out regardless. To me, it's more of a cosmetic change than something to improve the sonics. It looks pretty cool, nonetheless. I can see the different voice coil changing the sound characteristics, though. If you guys don't know what a voice coil is, it's the magnet behind the driver with the little opening in the center. Voice coils of different sizes and materials will definitely change the sound characteristics.  Just by going from the reviews on here, the sonic differences between the two doesn't seem that different. If anything, I believe that a slight eq can get one headphone to sound like the other, given that you swap the earpads.

 

@HaVoC-28: I modified my Pro700MKII drivers by cutting out the felt material behind the drivers (all of those little holes). The result was a much more open soundstage, increased midrange, and a slightly brighter treble. I transplanted that driver into the housing of my AD-900s and compared the two with Beyerdynamic Gel earpads installed on the headphone with tissue underneath it. To my surprise, the AD900's driver sounded very similar to the modified pro700mk2 driver. The AD900 had a more toned down midrange, there was more sub-bass impact, and the bass didn't bleed into the other frequencies as much (check sig for more details).

 

The pro700mk2 has a more restrictive white felt behind the driver while the AD900 has a less restrictive black felt behind the driver. The Pro700mk2 has a larger voice coil behind the driver (smaller opening in the middle), and the AD900 has a smaller voice coil with a larger opening in the middle of the driver. Keep in mind that the larger opening on the AD900's is the reason why the midrange was a bit more subdued and the treble was a bit brighter compared to the pro700mk2. The AD900 is rated at 100dB/mW while the pro700mk2 is rated at 106dB/mW. I'm positive that the pro700mk2's drivers weren't 6dB louder than the AD900s. Heck, even with both the pro700mk2 and the ad900 completely stock, and both of them had the same loudness at the same volume. 

 

Now, the reason why I said all of that is because the specs that AT (or any company) gives isn't always representative of the true performance of the headphones. I can assure you that the only difference between the AD900 and the Pro700MKII's drivers is the different felt material behind the driver, different grill color, and the different voice coil sizes. 

 

I believe that AT uses the same diaphragm (got it confused with drivers) on all of their 53mm headphones, but they change the sound characteristics by using different voice coils and felt material. Of course, the actual headphone enclosure ultimately determines the sound characteristics, but companies usually tune the drivers in accordance with the enclosure they're going to be put in, and what model number is slapped on it.

 

I don't trust the manufacturers tomfoolery with new models.  I've read where they use the same driver, just change the enclosure, or change the wire in the voice coils or the cable.  I have been experimenting the last few weeks with wire.  I have made several short 18" extension cable using different wire.  I used the same OCC high purity copper for the returns on each.  Right now I have three different extension cables I can A/B.  Pure OCC copper, SPC silver coated copper, and pure silver, all stranded 26 gauge.  Just by putting one of these cable between the source and IEM/HP, I can change the sound characteristics of the IEM/HP.......tends to follow the sound of the different cable.  Things like soundstage, clarity, imaging, as well as different quality of bass, and expecially in the mids/volcals, but highs as well.  It's like with the same IEM/HP, and the cables, like I have three different ones, each cable with it's own sound changes.  This is blowing my mind, as I can have my wife help with a blind test, with her changing the cables, and I have been very good at picking which cable she had in line.  I have been listening the last couple of days to my Hifiman RE272's, and compared to just the stock cable, the soundstage with SPC, or pure silver, has increased the soundstage and made it wider....it is a very pleasant experience!

post #429 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post

I never bent the headband of the AD2000 or AD2000X. No need. Perfect for my huge head.


It needs unbending (not bending), it was vise grip like clamp for me, unbending increased the comfort and added more air and details.


Edited by Andrew_WOT - 1/25/13 at 1:20pm
post #430 of 1756

interesting things , but even pressing AD2000X cups against  my hears with my two hands , don't make them as warm as AD2000 is  biggrin.gif , yes you loose a bit of detail and resolution but not much  , i think that AT  have tweaked some things internally to change a bit the sound . 

 

Peraphs AT use indeed the same Driver for many headphones , but tweak it internally differently as trae mentionned . 

 

 

 

I am not very motivate to torture my new pair , so rolleyes.gif happy with what they have done .  After all this is just a refresh  tongue.gif


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 1/25/13 at 2:18pm
post #431 of 1756

I never heard the AD2000 as warm. Always considered it on the brighter side of neutral. Funny because I always thought I WANTED warm headphones and WANTED extra bass. But in the end, my ears and cranium (comfort wise) said otherwise. If you are hearing the AD2000X as being even more bright than the AD2000, I am not so sure. Maybe. Maybe not.

post #432 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post

I never heard the AD2000 as warm. Always considered it on the brighter side of neutral. Funny because I always thought I WANTED warm headphones and WANTED extra bass. But in the end, my ears and cranium (comfort wise) said otherwise. If you are hearing the AD2000X as being even more bright than the AD2000, I am not so sure. Maybe. Maybe not.

 

AD2000 is the warmest can as i ever had as said before , warmer than my T1  wich had this role before (i consider T1 to be slighly on the warm side of neutral) , AD2000 is a bit warmer so it's no more neutral but warm , not as an HD650 but defnitevely warm , HD650 first time i hear it it's like you put a vampire on sun's rays my hears were diying with all this warmess (a bit exagerate yeah biggrin.gif)

 

Warmness ranking of cans i had

 

AD2000> T1 > DT-770 Pro LE>  K702ANV > AD2000X  > A2000X > AKG K272HD>  AKG K702 > DT-880 PRO >  DT-48E > DT-880-600 (At least this an onverall of my impressions with my setups at time that changed a bit with time so it's very approximative and difference are for some minmal , also you can interchange some it's just to give some idea  ) . 

 

Let's take the HD600 (tryed it and it's my fav Sennheiser after HD800) as "neutral can" it would be positionned somewhere like beetween K702 ANV and AD2000X . (all this 3 are very close for  me warm speaking) .

 

I don't think that AD2000X is a cold headphone if you think so HD600 is a cold headphone tongue.gif

 

I mostly Used SPL Auditor and / or  O2 as AMP  . (ODAC as DAC also NFB-17.2 but sounded exactly like ODAC at volume matched) . 

 

 

Edit : Peraphs my definition of "warmth " that is not accurate . will think about it later . 

 

 

http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary  


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 1/25/13 at 5:49pm
post #433 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

I love the AD2Ks for some of the reasons you pointed out.  I don't think I would like a colder / brighter AD2K.  I'll stick with AD2Ks for now.  

 

Thanks for this review.  Very informative.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post


X2 thanks for the review and special big thanks from my wallet as I can stick with AD2K. biggrin.gif

BTW, AD2K mids are already borderline neutral, not usual ATH house sound, more neutrality will probably cross "boring" line turning them into Beyers (God forbid blink.gif)

 

x3.  i don't want a brighter or a AD2000 with thinner mids.  i don't find the AD2000 mids to be terribly colored in of themselves, but they're pushed very forward in the mix and can skew the soundstage making them sound a little "odd". 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaVoC-28 View Post

 

For me AD2000 mids are warm , AD2000X mids are fairly neutral but on warm side , AD2000X mids are bodied a bit less than AD2000 but bodied , let's take a DT-880 on a neutral SS amp => mids are THIN , there is not much body , and slightly cold .  So no it's not a Beyer Made by Audio Techica ^^ .

 

 

Keep in mind that the cans that i used the most are 1) AKG K702 ,  2 )  Beyer T1  3) DT-880-600 ohms  . So this is the kind of signature that i am the most used . 

 

i'm not saying that you want to, but if you want to warm up the mids in the K702 and DT880, buy a 100-120ohm impedance adapter to increase the amplifier's output impedance.  thanks for the impressions.

post #434 of 1756

my ad900x arrived 2 days ago and it's exactly as what has been said already about these headphones. these DO need a burn in as the sound was very congested and the instruments were jam-packed together with no clarity almost when i first listened to them out of the box. i believe the headphone is still opening up as well as time goes on while i'm burning them in. currently running the headphones off the xonar stx stock, and i like what i hear. i tried it with the asgard + odac out of curosity but the sound didn't quite sit right with me.

 

and also these headphones are SERIOUSLY comfortable. you can really wear these headphones for hours on end.

post #435 of 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishski13 View Post

 

 

x3.  i don't want a brighter or a AD2000 with thinner mids.  i don't find the AD2000 mids to be terribly colored in of themselves, but they're pushed very forward in the mix and can skew the soundstage making them sound a little "odd". 

 

 

 

i'm not saying that you want to, but if you want to warm up the mids in the K702 and DT880, buy a 100-120ohm impedance adapter to increase the amplifier's output impedance.  thanks for the impressions.

 

Ya damping factor tongue.gif , but i was never bothered by how DT-880 or K702 souded through  my equipements ^^ if i was not limited on budget i would have kept them ... or peraphs not when i have a preference for a headphone the others only get dust ...

 

But keep in minds ,  the differences that i point out , are not as huge has my review can lead to think  (i edited it also) 

 

At the end i think that AD2000X suits a bit more my tastes , and AD2000 is now allready sold , packed to be shipped next monday .


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 1/26/13 at 5:11pm
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