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320 kbps MP3 vs. normal audio CD listening Sound quality - Page 24

post #346 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post


My dog serves that purpose. All I require of my sound files is that they sound great.

 

But your dog could probably successfully abx mp3 vs 192kHz lossless!!1

post #347 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani ATH 87 View Post

You may not notice a difference between 320k MP3's and Flac or WAV, or you might notice a difference. But the fact remains - 320k MP3's are compressed.


So it goes back to the first comment in this thread, it's mostly for piece of mind - Why not rip it to a lossless format if you are listening on the computer? It takes about a minute to copy tracks from Flac to MP3 if you are moving them to a mobile device or MP3 player.
I listen to music almost exclusively from MOG or Spotify. For anything that is not available that I enjoy, I have purchased a CD, ripped it to mp3, and lately have been uploading these to Google Music. With my 4G LTE phone with a 22GB data limit working as a hotspot, I am able to use my iPod or iPad to play the entire catalog on MOG or Spotify, all of my ripped CDs through a Google Music app, and anything I may have purchased through iTunes using an LOD to an amp. I have access to millions of songs practically anywhere I go.

I do have thousands of songs on my computer in FLAC format, but now that Google Music works perfectly fine for backing up my collection, I honesly just don't bother to rip to FLAC anymore. I have playlists with days worth of music that can be made available for offline listening, but I haven't found this to be necessary in a very long time.

So, I guess I'm just being a bit lazy. But this goes back to my initial premise, I'm extremely confident that I will not hear any noticeable difference in sound quality between 320 mp3 and FLAC. I swore that I could at one time, then I felt certain I should, but test after test first amazed and ultimately assured me that I'm wasting my time and energy with lossless files.
post #348 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani ATH 87 View Post

You may not notice a difference between 320k MP3's and Flac or WAV, or you might notice a difference. But the fact remains - 320k MP3's are compressed.
 

 

I think you mean mp3s are lossy.  FLAC and other lossless codecs are ALSO compressed, the difference is whether the codecs are considered lossy or lossless.

 

Going back on track - I've done ABX of my favourite tracks which I've listened to over hundreds of time and got less than 50% correct (ie no better than guessing statistically speaking), so I just rip to 320kbps mp3s for best compatibility between all my devices.


Edited by nanaholic - 1/10/13 at 10:32pm
post #349 of 439
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoshiyomi View Post

The latest versions of LAME tends to be a better MP3 encoder than what used by iTunes (is it Fraunhofer?) due to continuous development, but the difference at 320kbps should not be anything dramatic.  It's at lower bitrates that a good mp3 encoder starts to better others.  In short, don't worry about it too much.

Thanks for the response and explanation Hoshiyomi,

 

I feel that between 320 kbps MP3 and the CD-Audio there is no different at all. I feels that it is a placebo effect only.

post #350 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanuthead View Post

I can't tell the difference between 320 and lossless/CD in my setup...I still rip all my CD's lossless though.


Completely opposite case here.. I do have some successful 320k vs lossless ABX experience, but still I am collecting music mainly in mp3.

 

Even having total storage of about 40TB, I never felt harddisks to be cheap orz.. (well, music is not my main usage of storage though)

post #351 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by kn19h7 View Post


Completely opposite case here.. I do have some successful 320k vs lossless ABX experience, but still I am collecting music mainly in mp3.

 

Even having total storage of about 40TB, I never felt harddisks to be cheap orz.. (well, music is not my main usage of storage though)

thats..... huge.blink.gif even with space getting cheaper, having that much disc space is STILL going to be expensive

post #352 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

So essentially what you did was compare once - sighted - and can spot the difference ........

 

If you make it a controlled abx - I pretty much guarantee the apparent differences you hear now will all disappear.

 

As you already have Foobar 2000 - you just need the abx plugin, and you need to apply replay gain to the tags to volume match them.  So take your CD, rip once to lossless, and transcode that rip to MP3 320 (again - ideally use latest LAME encoder).  Use the abx comparator - tick the blind box during the test so you can't see the results real-time - and make sure you run at least 15 iterations on the same track.  Post the results.

 

It's an exercise that is worth doing - as it is actually enlightening to really know what we can actually distinguish.  For me - it also makes listening from my iPod Touch G4 more enjoyable.  I know the tracks are AAC 256, I know the iPT4 is essentially flat and transparent (a really good dap actually), and I know that I cannot distinguish AAC256 from lossless.  So placebo can't get in the way at all - and I am never left wondering if I can squeeze any more quality out - ergo ..... I enjoy the music more.

I havent done abx yet, since I had the daunting task of locating the lame encoder within foobar 2000. I googled for the lame encoder, downloaded it and unzipped it into a folder. When I opened Foobar I could not locate the 'converter' tab. Some sites posted screen shots of how to locate it, but my version of foobar (latest version) had it so complicated that I spent close to 1.5hrs wondering if the initial install up was right.

 

Anyways, I took my CD, ripped a track to MP3 320kps using LAME in foobar and listened closely with the original CD and my observation was.... There was NO noticeable difference in either formats.

 

Then I took the same track in FLAC & compared it to the new 320 LAME and still there was NO difference.

 

Result was original CD = FLAC  = 320 lame

 

I Thank You for your time and post and this little exercise in helping me to understand the differencebeerchug.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoshiyomi View Post

The latest versions of LAME tends to be a better MP3 encoder than what used by iTunes (is it Fraunhofer?) due to continuous development, but the difference at 320kbps should not be anything dramatic.  It's at lower bitrates that a good mp3 encoder starts to better others.  In short, don't worry about it too much.

I thought this was the case until now, that ALL mp3 software that encoded to 320kbps would sound the same. But its not the case for iTunes. There is a huge difference in sound to an mp3 encoder vs lame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achmedisdead View Post

 

 

The iTunes mp3 encoder is not as good as the LAME encoder.

You are absolutely right about this! Thanks also to you for your time & post for letting me know about this!beerchug.gif

 

 

Now I have 15+ years of CD collection re-ripping to be done and all this time I thought I was listening to the best biggrin.gif(before I joined Head-Fi)

post #353 of 439

IMO....are some types of music better suited to mp3 compression than others?

 

Especially poorly recorded/mastered files where any compression is just asking for more issues.

 

I noticed some songs sound perfect as FLAC files on spotify while others sound completely flat/dull(loudness war victims?).

post #354 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukon16 View Post

IMO....are some types of music better suited to mp3 compression than others?

 

Especially poorly recorded/mastered files where any compression is just asking for more issues.

 

I noticed some songs sound perfect as FLAC files on spotify while others sound completely flat/dull(loudness war victims?).

I think you'll find this really interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhA7Vy3OPbc

 

Your perception is right on. It's a combination of two trends in music production that when taken together form a sort of deadly cocktail - lossy codec compression + dynamic range compression. The worst example of this is when notoriously loud pop music becomes truly painful and torture-like on radio or mp3. It is a travesty that we have allowed commercialism to raze, ravage, and plunder an art form that has been around as long as human beings lived in social groups. Watching Lund's discussion on it, however, reminds me there are still people who care and perhaps there may be hope for a solution in the future.  

post #355 of 439

I recently downloaded the new 24 bit Donald Fagen "The Nightfly" from HD tracks. I compared it to the 16 Bit CD version (which I've never been happy with). For fans of this album, the difference is night and day. All of the punch, dynamic range, treble detail, vocal transparency from the old vinyl sound I remember finally returns.

 

Say what you will about it being a different mastering (I highly doubt this since it was originally recorded on digital masters), but I am a happy 24 bit consumer once again. :)

post #356 of 439
It's a totally different master. You don't understand the difference between format and mastering.
post #357 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

It's a totally different master. You don't understand the difference between format and mastering.

There is absolutely no evidence for what you said here BS. I have researched it a fair amount.

 

But if you can come up with some evidence, it would be an interesting read.

 

One things for sure, it blows away the CD.

 

Here are a couple of interesting links on The Nightlfy-

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2334122

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/nightfly-24-44-1-hd-tracks-8974/

 

Interesting that many feel the 2002 DVD-A 24 bit release was the best version until now. All that can be found out is that it might be the stereo version fro  2002 used for the 24/44.1 (although that is a misprint and it actually is 48k as one finds out on their DAC). But that also doesn't make sense as the DVDA was 96k and this is 48k.


Edited by jvandyk - 1/14/13 at 1:52pm
post #358 of 439

Open both versions up in an audio editor and see.  What kind of other research is there?

post #359 of 439

From what I've read, the 2002 DVD-A contained a 5.1 version and a stereo version. But it was sampled at 96k They would have no reason to downsample it to 48?.

 

If in fact it was remastered for the DVD-A or this recording, there is no info released about it. They both certainly came from the original 3m 16 bit master tapes no matter what however. So even if they were upsampled, it proves the point that much improvement can be done to 16 bit with higher resolution formats......

 

There is also a recent SACD.

post #360 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post

I recently downloaded the new 24 bit Donald Fagen "The Nightfly" from HD tracks. I compared it to the 16 Bit CD version (which I've never been happy with). For fans of this album, the difference is night and day. All of the punch, dynamic range, treble detail, vocal transparency from the old vinyl sound I remember finally returns.

 

Say what you will about it being a different mastering (I highly doubt this since it was originally recorded on digital masters), but I am a happy 24 bit consumer once again. :)

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

It's a totally different master. You don't understand the difference between format and mastering.
 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

Open both versions up in an audio editor and see.  What kind of other research is there?

 

 

 

Why in the name of reason are you arguing with this wassock - he steadfastly refuses to do any kind of DBT and will go on doing so forever

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