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Fostex TH600 Dynamic Headphones - Page 23

post #331 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJHeadfi View Post

It's always in Fostex's interests to make the very best headphone they can for the production cost, even if it's superior to a model that costs more to produce. Crippling a headphone to make it fit somehow is poor practise in so many ways. I don't believe Fostex would carry out such behaviour.

 

So you think that if they could then they would have made the TH600 better than the TH900 and charged half the price? LOL.... I think you need to reconsider that paragraph and remember that Fostex are actually a bussiness trying to make profit.

 

They could easily make a headphone that outperforms the TH900 and costs half the price to produce but they would then be sabotaging themselves and also making very low profit margins.

 

The headphones do not even cost that much to produce, they just put them into price brackets which the consumer then has no choice but to pay if they want premium sound quality.....

 

For example for do you think the Denon D7000 cost 4x the amount of the D2000 to produce? Obviously not..... But they have been put into different performance / price brackets.... This is how they make money.

 

Slightly better cable - Maybe - £10

Peices of wood for the cups - Maybe - £25

Slightly better magnets - Maybe - £20

 

They already have the production and tooling because D5000 are almost the same....

 

OK so I guessed those amounts but you get the idea - My point is that pricing is not proportional to production costs... It is proportional to the pricing brackets which the manufacturers decide to put them in, obviously better headphones cost more to produce, but nowhere near the amounts the end user pays.


Edited by nicholars - 2/19/13 at 9:41am
post #332 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

 

So you think that if they could then they would have made the TH600 better than the TH900 and charged half the price? LOL.... I think you need to reconsider that paragraph and remember that Fostex are actually a bussiness trying to make profit.

 

They could easily make a headphone that outperforms the TH900 and costs half the price to produce but they would then be sabotaging themselves and also making very low profit margins.

 

The headphones do not even cost that much to produce, they just put them into price brackets which the consumer then has no choice but to pay if they want premium sound quality.....

 

For example for do you think the Denon D7000 cost 4x the amount of the D2000 to produce? Obviously not..... But they have been put into different performance / price brackets.... This is how they make money.

 

Slightly better cable - Maybe - £10

Peices of wood for the cups - Maybe - £25

Slightly better magnets - Maybe - £20

 

They already have the production and tooling because D5000 are almost the same....

 

OK so I guessed those amounts but you get the idea - My point is that pricing is not proportional to production costs... It is proportional to the pricing brackets which the manufacturers decide to put them in, obviously better headphones cost more to produce, but nowhere near the amounts the end use pays.

 

Pretty much.  Fostex isn't going to release a product that is half the price of it's flagship that comes with similar SQ.  The TH-900 is selling better than they expected and they will continue to let it do so until demand dies off... at which point they'll most likely release another flagship or update the TH-900.

 

The TH-600 fills a void for Fostex where they are not making money and that's at the $1k price range.  The TH-600 will either be an entirely different sound signature aimed at a different type of listener or it will be a scaled down version of the TH-900 with a difference in SQ significant enough to warrant people to spend an additional $1,000 to get it.

 

I'm fairly certain that Fostex is not banking on the lacquer finish of the TH-900 to be the primary selling point that keeps that particular model viable and rather is banking on BOTH the lacquer finish AND the difference in SQ to be the reason why someone would pony up the extra $1k over the TH-600.

 

Companies try to provide different options at different price brackets so that they are viable to the market on ALL levels or at least within the markets that they want to be viable in.... Fostex is viable at $2,000 with the TH-900 and now they hope to be viable at $1,000k with the TH-600.

post #333 of 2347

Why not to wait for Audeze closed-back? TH900 seem to be extremely overpriced (sorry, I would buy LCD-3, Stax 007 or HD800 any day for 2k) and TH600 so far don't look like a top quality headphone, at least considering their price (you can have phones like LCD-2, HE-500, T1 or even HD800 in EU for the price).

 

Has anybody compared TH600 vs D7000? If they perform similarly, I would definitely suggest to look elsewhere (until they decrease the price reasonably).


Edited by RustA - 2/19/13 at 10:00am
post #334 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

Why not to wait for Audeze closed-back? TH900 seem to be extremely overpriced and TH600 so far don't look like a top quality headphone, at least considering their price (you can have phones like LCD-2, HE-500, T1 or even HD800 in EU for the price).

 

Have anybody compared TH600 vs D7000? If they perform similarly, I would definitely suggest to look elsewhere (until they decrease the price reasonably).

 

I am looking forward to the Audee closed back, but on a side note the TH-900 is not extremely overpriced in the overall headphone market.  In comparison to its competitors, it's extremely well priced.

 

In a ratio comparison of cost vs. benefit then yes, all headphones above $700 tend to have a significant drop off in what your money gets you.

 

Case in point:  The LCD-3, which is a great headphone and I love it, sounds great and beats all headphones (in my opinion) below it.  That means if you're sitting at that $1k price point with the LCD.2.2s and going, "What is better than this?"  you would typically have to look up at the LCD-3s and decide if you want to make that leap...and that leap will cost you an additional $1k.

 

You will not get the same benefit as going from a $500 headphone to the LCD-2.2s when going from the LCD.2.2s to the LCD-3s, but you WILL get a measurable benefit...just not as much of one.  Diminishing returns and all that jazz.

 

The TH-900s compete directly against the LCD-3s and to me, I prefer the TH-900s overall, though the LCD-3s have a sweet spot in my heart.  We could argue which one sounds better and wins in that regard, but most of that is personal taste so lets just agree that both have SQ deserving to be on the current Summit-Fi level.  With that out of the way, the TH-900 is built out of more artistically luxurious materials, competes on the summit-fi level, and commands a similar price...where on the other hand, the LCD-3 is made out of comparable materials of the LCD-2.2s., has a better driver, and significantly better ear pads... but does that justify the $1,000 price increase?  IMHO, no.

 

So if I have to pay $2k to achieve that SQ level, personally, I would then measure which one of the two has the better materials or rather materials and attention to detail than the other?  To me, that's the TH-900.  I feel that at $2k I'm getting high end sound quality but with more effort in the actual building of the headphone which is only a plus considering that it doesn't alter the price to which that sound quality comes at in the first place.

 

The TH-600 is lowering the SQ level AND the build materials by quite a bit, and I feel that the price point reflects that while still allowing you to decide if the increase in SQ and build materials is worth the increase in price to go up to the TH-900s.


Edited by tokendog - 2/19/13 at 10:13am
post #335 of 2347

I also am looking forward to audeze closed backs, I'm hoping they will be LCD-2 and not LCD-3 priced or the TH600s will get a serious consideration.

post #336 of 2347

Important is that it makes sense to you... It does not to me since I can have HD800 new for almost 1/2 price of TH900/LCD-3 (1200USD vs 2000USD) and get the best measuring dynamic headphone, with the best comfort, the best imaging, the best soundstage, very good neutrality and exciting futuristic design (to name a few points).

 

In my opinion, all the headphones you mentioned in your previous post are overpriced, in relation to the cost of HD800. LCD-2 rev2 probably the least. However, and what is the most important, it's all subjective and matter of preference.


Edited by RustA - 2/19/13 at 10:23am
post #337 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortitude View Post

I also am looking forward to audeze closed backs, I'm hoping they will be LCD-2 and not LCD-3 priced or the TH600s will get a serious consideration.

 

Yes, another closed-back for 2000USD with hyper-exotic wood finish? Crazy, overkill... That comes to my mind.

post #338 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

Why not to wait for Audeze closed-back? TH900 seem to be extremely overpriced (sorry, I would buy LCD-3, Stax 007 or HD800 any day for 2k) and TH600 so far don't look like a top quality headphone, at least considering their price (you can have phones like LCD-2, HE-500, T1 or even HD800 in EU for the price).

 

Has anybody compared TH600 vs D7000? If they perform similarly, I would definitely suggest to look elsewhere (until they decrease the price reasonably).


Why the obsession with closed backs. The Fostex do not really isolate that much.

post #339 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

Important is that i makes sense to you... It does not to me since I can have HD800 new for almost 1/2 price of TH900/LCD-3 (1200USD vs 2000USD) and get the best measuring dynamic headphone, with the best comfort, the best imaging, the best soundstage, very good neutrality and exciting futuristic design (to name a few points).

 

In my opinion, all the headphones you mentioned in your previous post are overpriced, in relation to the cost of HD800. LCD-2 rev2 probably the least. However, and what is the most important, it's all subjective and matter of preference.

 

I agree.  Please do not take my post the wrong way.  I am just providing a point of view.  As long as we're happy with what we have and what we paid for it, then that's all that matters.  Of course we'd all like to pay less for more, but that's not how economics works. :)

 

On a side note, the HD-800s have about a $700-800 markup at the retail stand point.  I'm sure the actual build cost is a good bit less, but I don't have the exact numbers available to me at the moment... but from the retail outlet to your hands, if you paid the current asking price for them brand new, it's about $700-800 in markup for what it cost that vendor.

 

I have no information on Fostex's markup so I cannot compare it, just figured you might like to know how much on average a headphone company stands to make on their products - even one as well made and deserving as the HD-800...another headphone that I really love.

post #340 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post


Why the obsession with closed backs. The Fostex do not really isolate that much.

 

I don't really know... I can listen to my LCD-2 and HD800 even though there are people sleeping in the same room.

 

By the way, LCD-2 are near to D7000 in terms of isolation... If these Fostex isolate as bad as Denons do, I don't really see a reason to spend 2k for them at all. They should at least isolate as hell if they cost that much...

 

However, if someone loves the sound of TH900 over other headphones in the same price category, no arguments against it... smily_headphones1.gif


Edited by RustA - 2/19/13 at 10:33am
post #341 of 2347

Sorry to ask again - is there anyone who heard (or will) both D7000 and TH600?

post #342 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

Sorry to ask again - is there anyone who heard (or will) both D7000 and TH600?

 

No one seems to have them right now other than Anak, and Jude.. so no we don't have any information on that comparison yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Yes, another closed-back for 2000USD with hyper-exotic wood finish? Crazy, overkill... That comes to my mind.


Who says that the potential Audeze Closed Backs will be set at 2000USD? Source? Your assuming that a product, not even yet in the stages of prototypes, will be priced the same as their flagship? Mostly likely not. Also, just because Closed-Back headphones aren't for you, sonically... that doesn't make their sound inferior, just not to your tastes.

post #343 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post


Why the obsession with closed backs. The Fostex do not really isolate that much.

 

errmm... because some people like isolation and/or use them in their offices were leakage is considered rude? :-p

I actually thought that they might be "better sealed" in comparison to the TH900s but seeing as they are the same design, they are "disqualified"/removed from my list ;-)

post #344 of 2347

Really ALL headphones over about £700 are overpriced.....

 

It is just whether you a) have the funds to afford them and b) can justify spending the money for the degree upgrade to SQ

post #345 of 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

 

errmm... because some people like isolation and/or use them in their offices were leakage is considered rude? :-p

I actually thought that they might be "better sealed" in comparison to the TH900s but seeing as they are the same design, they are "disqualified"/removed from my list ;-)


My exact point, closed back with isolation worse than open cans. Why bother?

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