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Fostex TH600 Dynamic Headphones - Page 147

post #2191 of 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post
 

Looks like somebody missed the sell-off for the past few weeks. :tongue_smile:

 

Ended up getting rid of my pair for $400 (albeit I'm keeping the pads). I think that's the right/fair price for these to be honest. I prefer the AH-D2000 ultimately.

 

Good luck finding yours!

 

I own a D2000 with Alpha Pads (which are an excellent upgrade!) and was considering also purchasing the Fostex TH-600 sometime. Could you elaborate on why you prefer the D2000? It appears the TH-600 might have higher resolution in sound (more details).

 

Specifically, I listen to 85% EDM music, and I'm curious as to which might be better because I have heard the Fostex 600 referred to as EDM king on this very thread. 


Edited by TWerk - 5/1/14 at 10:38pm
post #2192 of 2420

Like to hear that too as I found the D2000 to be the clear step down except for comfort. I'm sure most will agree.

post #2193 of 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by IH8RDNX View Post
 

I run my TH600's all day at work on a Burson Conductor 9018 SL. I've always felt the Fostex TH600 as well as its little brother D2000, even though they are relatively easy to drive, benefit greatly from an amp with a high damping factor; those big magnets thrive on current. The Burson provides exceptional control over the TH600's lower registers. The bass hits harder but is more balanced.

 

Sounds even better on my Burson Soloist at home. Lots more high end, too much sometimes, fine on most recordings. Sorry, I haven't heard those other amps you mentioned.

Thanks for the feedback. Conductor way more than I'd (probably ever) be willing to spend on an amp (although it has dac as well I suppose), but Soloist I will have a research and think about.. (and you say th600 sounds even better on the Soloist?) I also wonder how it goes on the Soloist SL (good reviews on headfonia and other sites, $600 version of the normal soloist with less power but same circuitry so probably fine for efficient ''phones like th600)


Edited by designbykai - 5/2/14 at 5:42am
post #2194 of 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWerk View Post

I own a D2000 with Alpha Pads (which are an excellent upgrade!) and was considering also purchasing the Fostex TH-600 sometime. Could you elaborate on why you prefer the D2000? It appears the TH-600 might have higher resolution in sound (more details).

Specifically, I listen to 85% EDM music, and I'm curious as to which might be better because I have heard the Fostex 600 referred to as EDM king on this very thread

Gee, I wonder why that is...

I don't think the TH600 has higher raw resolution really. The peak at 6KHz can trick some ears into believing that it's more detailed but it's just harsh to me.

The TH600 is cleaner from the lower mids down into the sub-bass, but the D2000 has more sub-bass power as it doesn't have the same mid-bass bump.

My main grievances with the TH600 is the FR crest at 6KHz and the consequent valley in the mids. I would call the midrange on the TH600 recessed. This also lends the perception of a vast soundstage but I just hear it as sucked out and thin in the mids. It sounds very unnatural on live recordings.

I don't have many grievances against the D2000 besides the occasionally excessive sub-bass power and some flatulence in the nether regions. Its imaging and resolution are otherwise comparable to the TH600 and they do sound more balanced. Its mids are much richer and more present.

Overall I found the D2000 to be the better headphone for casual listening and office use, from live recordings to electronic like BT and Bonobo. The D2000's rather fun without succumbing to a v-shaped response. The TH600 is more of a V and for me personally it doesn't succeed in being either fun or hi-fi.

I found the TH600 more pleasing with an aggressive cut at 6KHz but the response still wasn't as agreeable as that of the D2000.

To frame my opinions into context, I'm fairly sensitive to tonal balance. My ears vastly prefer the DT 880 to the DT 990, prefer the HD 600 to the HD 650, and chose to keep the JH13 over the JH16 after owning both. The D2000 is mostly my office headphone while I retain the excellent JH13 for portable use and the legendary Stax SR-Omega for home use and serious listening.
Edited by 3X0 - 5/2/14 at 8:07am
post #2195 of 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post


Gee, I wonder why that is...

I don't think the TH600 has higher raw resolution really. The peak at 6KHz can trick some ears into believing that it's more detailed but it's just harsh to me.

The TH600 is cleaner from the lower mids down into the sub-bass, but the D2000 has more sub-bass power as it doesn't have the same mid-bass bump.

My main grievances with the TH600 is the FR crest at 6KHz and the consequent valley in the mids. I would call the midrange on the TH600 recessed. This also lends the perception of a vast soundstage but I just hear it as sucked out and thin in the mids. It sounds very unnatural on live recordings.

I don't have many grievances against the D2000 besides the occasionally excessive sub-bass power and some flatulence in the nether regions. Its imaging and resolution are otherwise comparable to the TH600 and they do sound more balanced. Its mids are much richer and more present.

Overall I found the D2000 to be the better headphone for casual listening and office use, from live recordings to electronic like BT and Bonobo. The D2000's rather fun without succumbing to a v-shaped response. The TH600 is more of a V and for me personally it doesn't succeed in being either fun or hi-fi.

I found the TH600 more pleasing with an aggressive cut at 6KHz but the response still wasn't as agreeable as that of the D2000.

To frame my opinions into context, I'm fairly sensitive to tonal balance. My ears vastly prefer the DT 880 to the DT 990, prefer the HD 600 to the HD 650, and chose to keep the JH13 over the JH16 after owning both. The D2000 is mostly my office headphone while I retain the excellent JH13 for portable use and the legendary Stax SR-Omega for home use and serious listening.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write this very informative post. I have to agree with you on the DT 990, that one was terrible sounding to my ears. It sounded like it had total suck out of mids, sounding very "tin can" like to my ears. One of the worst, actually.

 

Do you not find the D2000, on occasion, harsh in some area of the treble? While I am not skilled in identifying the exact frequency like yourself, (how do you know it is 6 hz that's bugging you?) I find sometimes pulling the 8 HZ down a step or two in an equalizer helps smooth out the treble. It might be more due to my DAC which is quite extended, because I don't really have the problem when just listening straight out of the Macbook.

 

Which leads me to say, as many have seen, it's pretty amazing how great the D2000 sound without any amp or DAC. The difference when I use my Ultrasones with a DAC is pretty huge, but not so much with D2000. My DAC just seems to refine the sound a little bit (a little more detail and extended highs) but it also takes out some bass.

 

While some might dig that extra bass tightness, I find the looser bass and slightly more rolled off highs of an unamped D2000 to sound really nice. Anyways, thanks again for the post.


Edited by TWerk - 5/2/14 at 8:44am
post #2196 of 2420

6KHz is the same general area that bothers me in the HD 800s. Beyond the familiar sizzle I was hearing, I looked at the available FR charts and noticed the peak at ~6.3KHz. EQing this band down some made them much more tolerable, but I wasn't willing to EQ like this on a permanent basis.

 

The TH600 isn't as bad of a V as the DT 990, but for the price I'd actually rather take the DT 990 Pro. I'll echo AnakChan's (IIRC) impressions that this headphone was overpriced, and remains so even at the $600-650 level (let alone the absurd $800-1000 launch price). I think it'd compete better at around the $400 level.

 

My D2000 seems to be the later revision, as I observed the earpads were softer than those of my older D7000. As such it's more balanced in the midrange and less bright than the launch version.

post #2197 of 2420
DT700/800/900 are nice but I use t70 with ZO2 in my office, really nice combo smily_headphones1.gif
post #2198 of 2420
Anybody compared these with the Paradox Slants?
post #2199 of 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by GigArt View Post
 

Hi fellow headfiers, is there anything suitable for TH600 within 700-900$ price range (DAC+amp)? Currently listening to TH600 with ODAC\O2 - 5-8 kHz harshness is the key problem. Here are some variants I think about:

 

1) Yulong D200. Wanna try this new combo. According to Yulong DA8 thread, slow filter really makes harsh treble warm. Yulong D200 has that filter too. 

2) Used Burson HA-160D\DS. They say it's extremely punchy (unlike neutral Yulongs) and warm.

3) Audio-GD Wolfson 8741 combos (Compass 2, 10.33).

4) Fostex HP-A4 maybe?

5) I already have Lars Audio DAC1 MKII (CS4398) - it's generally neutral with a slight warmth in the mids. So I can try to add punchy amp. Maybe Asgard 2 (though bass control is not a strong point of it). Or Aune S2 Panda MK2 - very good thing as far as I know, phenomenal bass quality and relatively smooth treble.

 

Can't comment on any of them but.. the Yulong D100/A100 that I'm using is the finest combination i've heard yet. The recent addition of the A100 smoothens the treble peak just that little extra which makes it the more pleasant listening experience over just the D100 headphone amp. The latter does have a filtering option similar to the DA8 which I had been using for certain edgy recordings. Have not yet compared the internal filtering capacity to the A100. In your case the O2 is perhaps the cause of harshness. From what I've read I interpreted the ODAC/O2 both as at least neutral so if you'd add a slightly colored amp it could work out for the better. Just as a side step or experiment what comes to mind is Schiit Vali or Aune T1? That Aune S2 sure sounds like it might work for your Lars DAC1. The Asgard 2, not my cup but in hindsight I could call it musical. It has a certain warmth or thickness that works for some but did not for me especially in combination with the Fostex. Same goes for Vali. But for the price, it's not a hard choice.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by designbykai View Post

Would also be interested in how they pair with burson (also the soloist), and perhaps something like Lehmann BCL..the neutrality and clarity from all ive read about it sounds awesome. I was thinking about the wa7 & but not sure if I'd want tube warmth really, prefer to have something fairly neutral and hear the phones for whs they are.. And the hpa4 by all reports is a bit bassy, which normally is something I'd like but th600 are not lacking in bass.. I'd also imagine something around the 1k mark (soloist, bcl, v200 etc) would be more future proof

 

I have had the Soloist SL for a while and to my ears it was an even more undesirable combination than the Asgard 2. Gone clarity and too much bottom end added to a headphone that really doesn't need it. We may share some preferences so if the D200 is the sure improvement over the D100/A100 we have a winner. The Lehmann sounds interesting to me too and I have the same opinion about the WA7. From what I've understood the V200 also seems to have a slight warm tone to it.


Edited by moriez - 5/3/14 at 1:05am
post #2200 of 2420

Would these sound good with Meridian Explorer as amp and dac? I'm looking for fun, lively, engaging sound but I hate harsh treble.

post #2201 of 2420

While I can't comment on that combination (I sold my explorer before I got the TH600) I remember the Explorer as rather soft and friendly sounding, so that might fit your bill.

I would not call the TH600 harsh, but there are other options with a less present treble presentation. Its often described as U-shaped, which fits quite well in my opinion.

post #2202 of 2420
Thanks for the comments moriez. Yeah as much as I'd like to give tubes a go at some point I'm leaning more towards a good SS. Or just hpa4, at least initially and then as a office unit.
The schiit bifrost uber with upgraded usb2 input at around $500 sounds like a good value & quality Dac & then add on a good ~$500 amp I feel would be a nice ~1k home setup.
post #2203 of 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by GigArt View Post
 

Hi fellow headfiers, is there anything suitable for TH600 within 700-900$ price range (DAC+amp)? Currently listening to TH600 with ODAC\O2 - 5-8 kHz harshness is the key problem. Here are some variants I think about:

 

1) Yulong D200. Wanna try this new combo. According to Yulong DA8 thread, slow filter really makes harsh treble warm. Yulong D200 has that filter too. 

2) Used Burson HA-160D\DS. They say it's extremely punchy (unlike neutral Yulongs) and warm.

3) Audio-GD Wolfson 8741 combos (Compass 2, 10.33).

4) Fostex HP-A4 maybe?

5) I already have Lars Audio DAC1 MKII (CS4398) - it's generally neutral with a slight warmth in the mids. So I can try to add punchy amp. Maybe Asgard 2 (though bass control is not a strong point of it). Or Aune S2 Panda MK2 - very good thing as far as I know, phenomenal bass quality and relatively smooth treble.

 

Dangerous Music Source. It's a really good match for my Denons and cleans up the bass and mids while pushing for transparency.

post #2204 of 2420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post


Gee, I wonder why that is...

I don't think the TH600 has higher raw resolution really. The peak at 6KHz can trick some ears into believing that it's more detailed but it's just harsh to me.

The TH600 is cleaner from the lower mids down into the sub-bass, but the D2000 has more sub-bass power as it doesn't have the same mid-bass bump.

My main grievances with the TH600 is the FR crest at 6KHz and the consequent valley in the mids. I would call the midrange on the TH600 recessed. This also lends the perception of a vast soundstage but I just hear it as sucked out and thin in the mids. It sounds very unnatural on live recordings.

I don't have many grievances against the D2000 besides the occasionally excessive sub-bass power and some flatulence in the nether regions. Its imaging and resolution are otherwise comparable to the TH600 and they do sound more balanced. Its mids are much richer and more present.

Overall I found the D2000 to be the better headphone for casual listening and office use, from live recordings to electronic like BT and Bonobo. The D2000's rather fun without succumbing to a v-shaped response. The TH600 is more of a V and for me personally it doesn't succeed in being either fun or hi-fi.

I found the TH600 more pleasing with an aggressive cut at 6KHz but the response still wasn't as agreeable as that of the D2000.

To frame my opinions into context, I'm fairly sensitive to tonal balance. My ears vastly prefer the DT 880 to the DT 990, prefer the HD 600 to the HD 650, and chose to keep the JH13 over the JH16 after owning both. The D2000 is mostly my office headphone while I retain the excellent JH13 for portable use and the legendary Stax SR-Omega for home use and serious listening.

 

Agreed. Recessed mids, regardless of what genre you listen to, will make music lacking over time. I listen to a lot of electronic stuff yet I still prefer a balanced sound and can't deal with recessed mids for even electronic. There's still vocal trance for example. I have no idea why I still hear people say that you don't need mids for electronic because there's no "real" instruments being used, so you can't judge the tonality and thus the mids somehow don't matter.

 

The D2000 unless on the right amp will sound recessed and not engaging over a period of time. I've owned mine for about 3 years and with the wrong amp it can sound "off." Throw something like a BHA-1 or my DM Source and it will really make it sound quite near neutral but yet really fun to listen to.

post #2205 of 2420

I think its all about what you hear yourself. Would you really worry about "recessed mids" or a spike at ??KHz if you hadn't seen the measurements and read about it on forums?

From when I first put on the th600 to now they just do all genres perfectly for me. Listening to this mix right now and there are some instrumental tracks, instruments (piano, drums, double bass) sound incredibly realistic and detailed. https://soundcloud.com/dj-maggie/bossaquatics

I don't find the mids to be lacking but that's just me. I've also read a lot of posts of people saying they aren't ideal for rock, metal etc. To me and other friends who've listened to them they are fantastic for those genres too. The treble isn't too aggressive either, its spot on (for me). I like detail and a little bit of forwardness and extension up there though, but the Ultrasone Pro900 were definitely a bit too aggressive for me. TH600 nothing like that. Maybe those people who think it is are listening way too loud. Or just prefer a way more laid back warm & mellow sound like the Senn HD6xx line

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