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Loudspeakers vs headphones - Page 6

post #76 of 175

It's more practical and more fun to have multiple sets of headphones instead of multiple sets of speakers  IMO

post #77 of 175

Thanks, DefQon, for your input. It is nice to see someone who has actually speak from experience rather than opinion or hearsay. It makes a night and day difference to me, but clearly it depends on what cable you use and your amp.

 

Just out of curiosity, is there actually a cable "within the headband"? I always assumed that the signal simply went through the steel rods of the headband and not a cable. Also, why did you use Crystal Piccolino for the AKGs and not simply some high quality mic cable like Mogami or Canare? The price of CP seems ridiculous when you compare it to the price of the cans themselves.

 

I very clearly hear the differences discussed here: http://forums.overclockersclub.com/index.php?showtopic=160889 but to me the improvement was not subtle. To be honest, before the re cable  I was ready to upgrade these cans with something like T1s but not any more. Perhaps this is partly explained by the fact that my mod is balanced while the one discussed is not.

 

"So, there it is. How does it sound? Well, the K701s already sounded amazing when amped and using silver/OFC interconnects. The improvement is admittedly subtle, and hard to place any major changes, as there is not much room for improvement I guess. The bass has improved ever so slightly, and the soundstage is a tiny bit wider... the most significant change is a general one: the fine detail has opened up a bit more, so vocals and delicate percussion is reproduced with even more finesse."

post #78 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooster View Post

Thanks, DefQon, for your input. It is nice to see someone who has actually speak from experience rather than opinion or hearsay. It makes a night and day difference to me, but clearly it depends on what cable you use and your amp.

 

Just out of curiosity, is there actually a cable "within the headband"? I always assumed that the signal simply went through the steel rods of the headband and not a cable. Also, why did you use Crystal Piccolino for the AKGs and not simply some high quality mic cable like Mogami or Canare? The price of CP seems ridiculous when you compare it to the price of the cans themselves.

 

I very clearly hear the differences discussed here: http://forums.overclockersclub.com/index.php?showtopic=160889 but to me the improvement was not subtle. To be honest, before the re cable  I was ready to upgrade these cans with something like T1s but not any more. Perhaps this is partly explained by the fact that my mod is balanced while the one discussed is not.

 

"So, there it is. How does it sound? Well, the K701s already sounded amazing when amped and using silver/OFC interconnects. The improvement is admittedly subtle, and hard to place any major changes, as there is not much room for improvement I guess. The bass has improved ever so slightly, and the soundstage is a tiny bit wider... the most significant change is a general one: the fine detail has opened up a bit more, so vocals and delicate percussion is reproduced with even more finesse."

No it goes through only one side of the rods, you know what I meant when I said headband and I didn't need to be specific as you had done it yourself. lol I only used the CP's because I was messing around with 6ft's worth for a balanced single 4 XLR for my HD800, I had everything ready just before termination so I decided to just solder the two cable end's to the drivers of the K701 I was playing with and there was no evidence to support that I heard any difference whatsoever.

 

Not to mention Canare/Mogami are not special cable's, they are originally designed for Microphone use not so much for headphone use, I don't know why people go raving nut's buying 10ft's worth of different version Mogami's recabling their $30-60 headphones from the DIY cable thread...lol..better put that money elsewhere for better cables or better headphones.

 

The very subtle differences your hearing as you have described is because your running it in balanced mode, not due to the dual-entry termination change to the driver's over single entry. Just out of curiosity what balanced amp are you running it out of?


Edited by DefQon - 12/15/12 at 9:37pm
post #79 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

 

The very subtle differences your hearing as you have described is because your running it in balanced mode, not due to the dual-entry termination change to the driver's over single entry.

 

It is not subtle and it is not just because I am running it in balanced mode. I know this because I have actually LISTENED to the cans, stock and re cabled and balanced and unbalanced after re cabling. (Yes, I can still use the cans single ended because I made an adapter cable). I am using an Audio GD NFB-6 like it says in my signature.

 

Since you did not hear any difference it seems like your results vary for some other reason. My guess would be that the CP cable is in the same league as the stock AKG cable, i.e. not very good but you will NEVER catch me saying that the CP cable is a piece of **** unless I actually tested it myself.

 

To tell you the truth I don't find this kind of comment: "The very subtle differences your hearing as you have described is because your running it in balanced mode, not due to the dual-entry termination change to the driver's over single entry." very helpful from someone who does not know what he is talking about.

 

If you have any more comments about what I am hearing and why I suggest you save your breath. I am not interested.

post #80 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooster View Post

 

It is not subtle and it is not just because I am running it in balanced mode. I know this because I have actually LISTENED to the cans, stock and re cabled and balanced and unbalanced after re cabling. (Yes, I can still use the cans single ended because I made an adapter cable). I am using an Audio GD NFB-6 like it says in my signature.

 

To tell you the truth I don't find this kind of comment: "The very subtle differences your hearing as you have described is because your running it in balanced mode, not due to the dual-entry termination change to the driver's over single entry." very helpful from someone who does not know what he is talking about.

 

 

 

LOL, thanks for a good laugh, ignorance is bliss, I'm not even going to respond how much of a joke your post is, just remember what i said one day you discover the difference between placebo affected opinion to factual information. And know the CP's are not in the same league as the stock AKG cable's, it's because it doesn't mate well with crapular headphones such as the K/Q70X are imho. Enjoy your night and day difference Q701. wink.gif


Edited by DefQon - 12/15/12 at 10:42pm
post #81 of 175

My friend owns a company called Speaker Art. He was pretty big from 1999-2004 and made lots of speakers. He hand made all the crossovers one at a time and designed the boxes to go with the best speakers he could afford. He spent hours-days listening to each speaker, like they were his own before shipping it. His sets went from $1500-5000. Each new one was better than the last, IMO. Everyone who heard them expected them to cost twice as much as he was charging. Now a days he only makes about 3 pair a year and is pretty much only taking special orders. The last set i saw of his had planar tweeters. He almost always used 8" woofers, as he considered them to have the best response. The guy knows his stuff. His systems were in the 8-15k range, and everything was modded to the max. His stuff blew me away because he knew how to set it up and where to put the speakers, etc. My only issue is that he hardly ever cranked them up much for me, but I could still tell they appreciate their awesomeness. My first thought when I read this topic is that, hell yeah loud speakers are better for music reproduction; and not because I can feel the bass, because "8 in speakers at low-medium levels don't kick that hard.  

Then I listen to my system that is nice and sounds good; but when I put on my headphones it's as if the speakers aren't even on at all. I can listen to either one without thinking I'd like to hear the other. Speakers don't press on your head, which give you less to think about when trying to enjoy music IMO.  

It's important for me to have both, as when company comes over I don't like staring at a screen, but would rather impress them with small speakers that put out big sound like my Pinnacle AC650's or my Rectilinear mini III's.

For me it's equal energy into both and a continuing work in progress.    beerchug.gif

 

However, I'm not a fan of  5.1-7.1 surround with center channels and woofer boxes. It just doesn't make sense to me to add more mediocre speakers to my system, as opposed to using two really nice ones. But I don't really consider those to be loud speakers anyhow.

post #82 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHuntington View Post

However, I'm not a fan of  5.1-7.1 surround with center channels and woofer boxes. It just doesn't make sense to me to add more mediocre speakers to my system, as opposed to using two really nice ones. But I don't really consider those to be loud speakers anyhow.

Or you can have 5 or 7 really nice speakers.........

But yes, I'm in complete agreement with you and your friends choices of 8" for music. I've thought about using a hybrid sized pairing of a 8 & 10 with a cross over at 80 ~. The 8s can integrate with well with non dynamic sound in low level listening. M-L uses three 8" in their subs to match their panels. I made the mistake of buying based on dual use, trying to match a 15" to my stats and it just won't work unless I am listening at moderate levels (which isn't that often).
post #83 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHuntington View Post

 

However, I'm not a fan of  5.1-7.1 surround with center channels and woofer boxes. It just doesn't make sense to me to add more mediocre speakers to my system, as opposed to using two really nice ones. But I don't really consider those to be loud speakers anyhow.

 

beerchug.gif

I'm with James.Two nice ones is better than a bunch of crap.

post #84 of 175

I sold my HE-6/Lyr to help fund myself into a stereo loudspeaker setup of Buggtussel Amygdala.   

  

I would be kidding myself if I said the speakers were as perfect as the HE-6. The HE-6 was right on my head, no negative effects from walls/room, perfect detail and clarity and bass as low as anyone could hope for.   

  

My speakers are beautiful and have a soundstage that is just so real and a sound that is so crisp and airy and warm and every other audiophile adjective I can imagine. The sound is effortless, through the air, to my ears. However, I have a really subpar subwoofer (Definitive Prosub 1000) and until I at least get a set of 2x HSUs or something comparable, I still miss the low-end that my planar magnetic headphones could give me - but even my cheap subwoofer is better in osome aspects than headphones -- I can feel the bass throughout my whole body.   

  

If money was limitless, I'd have great headphones and great speakers. That, or I'd get a laptop so I could have my computer experience be directly in front of my speakers, rather than off to the side. I spend a lot of time at my PC, listening to speakers that are pointed to my couch.   

  

Headphones, though? You always have the stereo image at the top performance the headphones can give. For speakers, you have to be in a specific couple of seats to get their best offering. That said, the best of what speakers can do for soundstage sure is impressive.  

  

Once I perfect my speaker setup (that's an endless path, lol) I'll have no more pangs for my old headphones. 

post #85 of 175

For anyone looking to get into the desktop stereo game with good base, the W4S mInt, or mini integrated amp, has so much going for it: 100wpc, audiophile quality headphone jack, less than 8 lbs, Dac, usb input, remote, 5 year warranty, etc. And they also do a 14 day trial if you want to try it in your home. My friend who makes speakers is a huge fan of this company and uses their amps in his home because they are efficient and sound great. 

 

http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/612512

 

This review has expanded on the specs

http://hometheaterreview.com/wyred-4-sound-mint-mini-integrated-amplifier-reviewed/

 

Here's a headfi review

http://www.head-fi.org/t/593744/w4s-mini-integrated-mint-anybody-have-one-yet

post #86 of 175

How about 5 or 7 nice ones? ;) A surround setup doesnt necessarily have to be low quality. Im pretty much content with my B&W 5.0 setup.

post #87 of 175
I use Martin Logan/B & K in my home theater. Nothing trashy about it but they still don't do what the HE-6 can do without blasting the house with it. I'll not commit to headphones only though as the open and three D staging of these speakers is thrilling. Just don't use the full range of music in the rears.
post #88 of 175

Speakers for em are always better as long as i can use them (Neibours might complain when you keep a 16 hour long loud volume in saturday/sunday).

 

I have Z-5500 logitechs and HE-400. THE-400 (see waht i did there? :D) sound better in detail retrival, but the Z-5500 give a better expirince over all. Note that the HE-400 are actually more expensive in EU than Z-5500.

 

Now, im quite sure if youd face the best HP (lets say HE-90 Orpheus or stax-009) vs about the best speakers (Bowers&wilkins Nautilus) the speakers would win hands down.

 

In same price range, and a room good enought, speakers. If room inadecuate, HP.

post #89 of 175

you've clearly never heard the SR-009s or the Nautilus - those are some of the worst sounding speakers in their price bracket ;) 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by catspaw View Post

Speakers for em are always better as long as i can use them (Neibours might complain when you keep a 16 hour long loud volume in saturday/sunday).

 

I have Z-5500 logitechs and HE-400. THE-400 (see waht i did there? :D) sound better in detail retrival, but the Z-5500 give a better expirince over all. Note that the HE-400 are actually more expensive in EU than Z-5500.

 

Now, im quite sure if youd face the best HP (lets say HE-90 Orpheus or stax-009) vs about the best speakers (Bowers&wilkins Nautilus) the speakers would win hands down.

 

In same price range, and a room good enought, speakers. If room inadecuate, HP.

post #90 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

you've clearly never heard the SR-009s or the Nautilus - those are some of the worst sounding speakers in their price bracket ;) 

 

 

People in the know, not me, would agree with you I'm sure. Nowadays there's hundreds of companies making high-end speakers, and though B&W hasn't gone totally in the direction of companies like AltecLansing and AR who used to be really good too, they have taken a lot of their production to China and are going for mass profit. My friends company Speaker Art was a good example of a company that designed speakers for quality, and were a good alternative to paying more than double on B&W's etc. flag ship. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pOOB73 View Post

How about 5 or 7 nice ones? ;) A surround setup doesnt necessarily have to be low quality. Im pretty much content with my B&W 5.0 setup.

I agree that B&W sounded good, at least the CM5 that I listened to in the showroom at a local store about 3 years ago. Of course they sell them at Best Buy now and I can't say if the quality is down, but the bass on those small speakers was impressive enough for me to almost get some. And as far as powered woofers I've heard some real junk, but the best one I've heard was an REL from England that my buddy gave me, which bumped my apartment so hard I thought the roof was going to come down.

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