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New Cypher labs product! - Page 10

post #136 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberalpha11 View Post

If it works for Android Samsung Galaxy devices such S2, S3 or player 4, 5, then I would say this Solo -db is a breakthrough product and it worth for us to pay premium price!
 

It doesn't

post #137 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachchen1996 View Post

Thought that someone on this thread already tried the new - db with his gs3 and said that it doesnt work?

It doesn't right now. But I asked about it with him and he said he was thinking about adding it.  I assume based on that conversation that it's a firmware upgrade (and a lot of work). As the thing stands right now it has balanced output and works with a PC or Apple devices. I personally am interested in listening to some balanced systems and trying it out myself.

post #138 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddragon View Post

 

 

have the classic myself, theres limitation to it such as not being able to play 24 bit 96khz files and above... if you have a lot of those high resolution files

Red, isn't the limitation because the i~device cannot play them? iPad can and I THINK does with the CLAS.

 

And if so, the new one with USB DAC capabilities should be able to play too.

Have I got it wrong?

post #139 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

Red, isn't the limitation because the i~device cannot play them? iPad can and I THINK does with the CLAS.

And if so, the new one with USB DAC capabilities should be able to play too.
Have I got it wrong?

Well first of all iPod doesn't even allow you to put 24 bit 96khz or above music files into the harddrive in the first place... don't know about ipad, heard it can support up to 24 bit 96khz
post #140 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyw View Post

It doesn't right now. But I asked about it with him and he said he was thinking about adding it.  I assume based on that conversation that it's a firmware upgrade (and a lot of work). As the thing stands right now it has balanced output and works with a PC or Apple devices. I personally am interested in listening to some balanced systems and trying it out myself.

This is good news, because If it works with android devices then my rig just might be a note 2/ -db CLAS/ with my uha-6s mkii biggrin.gif If it turns out not happening, then I just might have to wait for hm901 or get a dx100 instead. Does anyone have any comparisons of the new -db clas with the dx100? Really interested on hearing if the new clas can compete with the dac in the dx100.
post #141 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachchen1996 View Post

This is good news, because If it works with android devices then my rig just might be a note 2/ -db CLAS/ with my uha-6s mkii biggrin.gif If it turns out not happening, then I just might have to wait for hm901 or get a dx100 instead. Does anyone have any comparisons of the new -db clas with the dx100? Really interested on hearing if the new clas can compete with the dac in the dx100.

Dac wise they should be comparable, looking at the price of 2...
post #142 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddragon View Post

no problem with the usb cable that comes with stock with the ipod (if thats what you are asking)


Yes...thank you

post #143 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmahler2u View Post


Yes...thank you

No problem and you can always get a custom cable from like moon audio or something
post #144 of 352

This new solo has great sound...except i really cable connection I'm not excited....but love the sound.  it gives more depths to the headphone.

clear imagining.  top to the bottom really give the definition to the sound.

 

Now I need to call ALO....change the cable.

post #145 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmahler2u View Post

however, no one really answer my question yet.  Did anyone used the new solo and ipod classic?

 

Thanks

 

Hi gmahler2u,

 

I am using the CLAS -db with iPod Classic (160 GB) I bought about two months ago. It works perfect for me. This is how I have my gear...from bottom to top...

 

CLAS -db --> MK3-B ---> Ipod Classic...,

 

Initially I had MK3-B ---> CLAS -DB -- iPod..., being the CLAS to close to the iPod, made the LOD cable to force the iPod connector side at the point that I thought was about to brake. Then I changed the gear order and now fits perfect.

 

Regarding the other comments on this interesting topic....

 

I started recently in this gear adventure research... I started with the HP-P1 + MK3b + HE-500 (using balanced ALO reference 8 cables); even though I liked the sound a lot.... I was disappointed on the HP-P1 battery life, when I saw the CLAS -DB featured 14 hrs on battery, I immediately returned the HP-P1 (I was under my 30 days warranty) and to my great great surprise... the sound is much much better by far now with the CLAS -DB, and as far as my initial reason for change goes... the battery life in the CLAS is really impressive;

 

in my transition between the HP-P1 and the CLAS -DB (returns and orders), I got an ALO LOD cable so I got iPOD --> LOD --> HE-500, and iPOD --> LOD ---> LCD-2 R2 (both head phones were tested using balanced ALO reference 8 cables); under this scenario, I did several tests, and found as already mention in the forums HE-500 more towards classical and instrumental music, and the LCD-2 more towards vocal, pop, rock music; Then I thought, geeeesh... I will need to use two different head phones based on the music... but... but... when I got the CLAS -DB in the equation... my musical life changed... my perfect combination is now using the HE-500...

 

Before using the CLAS -db, either the HP-P1 and direct LOD, the Bass control on the MK3-b was not really that sensitive, and as you can imagine, the LCD-2 excelled in the bass area as expected....but now with the CLAS -db, the bass response and control are perfect to me on the HE-500, and now the LCD-2 turned to have to much bass to my ears/taste.

 

So for now my perfect gear is:

 

CLAS -db +(balance to balance connected) + MK3-B + HE-500 (using ALO reference 8 balanced cables).

 

with the HE-500 I can now enjoy pretty much all type of music, from classical, instrumental, opera, pop, rock, vocal. Again, this is strictly talking about my ears, that from what I have learned in this forum could be different from ears to ears.

 

I hope my experience could help some body.

 

Best Regards!


Edited by BennyLecter - 10/30/12 at 8:34am
post #146 of 352

Wow, I wonder how would that sound with The Intruder and HE-6 instead of RX MK3-B and HE-500.

post #147 of 352

I have a question to owners of the following combo : CLAS -db + Rx Mk3b+ IEM (all in balanced mode).

 

Can you please specify what's the difference in sonic quality between balanced and unbalanced mode?

 

Is it really noticeable?

 

Thanks.
 

post #148 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyLecter View Post

 

Hi gmahler2u,

 

I am using the CLAS -db with iPod Classic (160 GB) I bought about two months ago. It works perfect for me. This is how I have my gear...from bottom to top...

 

CLAS -db --> MK3-B ---> Ipod Classic...,

 

Initially I had MK3-B ---> CLAS -DB -- iPod..., being the CLAS to close to the iPod, made the LOD cable to force the iPod connector side at the point that I thought was about to brake. Then I changed the gear order and now fits perfect.

 

Regarding the other comments on this interesting topic....

 

I started recently in this gear adventure research... I started with the HP-P1 + MK3b + HE-500 (using balanced ALO reference 8 cables); even though I liked the sound a lot.... I was disappointed on the HP-P1 battery life, when I saw the CLAS -DB featured 14 hrs on battery, I immediately returned the HP-P1 (I was under my 30 days warranty) and to my great great surprise... the sound is much much better by far now with the CLAS -DB, and as far as my initial reason for change goes... the battery life in the CLAS is really impressive;

 

in my transition between the HP-P1 and the CLAS -DB (returns and orders), I got an ALO LOD cable so I got iPOD --> LOD --> HE-500, and iPOD --> LOD ---> LCD-2 R2 (both head phones were tested using balanced ALO reference 8 cables); under this scenario, I did several tests, and found as already mention in the forums HE-500 more towards classical and instrumental music, and the LCD-2 more towards vocal, pop, rock music; Then I thought, geeeesh... I will need to use two different head phones based on the music... but... but... when I got the CLAS -DB in the equation... my musical life changed... my perfect combination is now using the HE-500...

 

Before using the CLAS -db, either the HP-P1 and direct LOD, the Bass control on the MK3-b was not really that sensitive, and as you can imagine, the LCD-2 excelled in the bass area as expected....but now with the CLAS -db, the bass response and control are perfect to me on the HE-500, and now the LCD-2 turned to have to much bass to my ears/taste.

 

So for now my perfect gear is:

 

CLAS -db +(balance to balance connected) + MK3-B + HE-500 (using ALO reference 8 balanced cables).

 

with the HE-500 I can now enjoy pretty much all type of music, from classical, instrumental, opera, pop, rock, vocal. Again, this is strictly talking about my ears, that from what I have learned in this forum could be different from ears to ears.

 

I hope my experience could help some body.

 

Best Regards!

hi benny.  

thanks for the advice, however, it still won't work on mine.

 

it's defective one.  

post #149 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by freesurfer View Post

I have a question to owners of the following combo : CLAS -db + Rx Mk3b+ IEM (all in balanced mode).

 

Can you please specify what's the difference in sonic quality between balanced and unbalanced mode?

 

Is it really noticeable?

 

Thanks.
 

 

Hi freesurfer,

 

I'll stick my neck out and try to answer this, but I'd like to encourage others to jump in with corrections and/or contrary opinions, if any.

 

First, I'll say that balanced output from an amp to headphones can have a far more dramatic impact than balanced output from the DAC to amp.

 

Assuming that all else is equal, including Watts rms per channel, amps with balanced output to the headphones usually offer better control of the frequencies that are hardest to control - the bass frequencies and, to a lesser degree, the mids - making them tighter, with faster transients and higher resolution.  With headphones, just as with loudspeakers, you're talking about moving parts that have both mass and inertia - mass that either has to be accelerated from an idle state or decelerated (dampened) from a moving state.  Balanced output amps generally do a better job of controlling the motion of mass than single-ended designs.  One approach is to use a quad push-pull design (RSA SR-71B, iBasso PB2, etc.), where each channel has two op-amps in the input voltage gain stage, with one op-amp being fed with an inverted signal, 180-degrees out of phase with the other op-amp, but in perfect sync.  As one op-amp is pushing on the headphone's moving parts, its partner is simultaneously pulling, theoretically yielding tighter, faster control.   

 

Balanced amps also enjoy the benefit that comes with not sharing a common ground, as with singled-ended output.  Impedance fluctuations emanating from one channel can affect the impedance of the other channel when they are sharing a common ground.  Jan Meier's singled-ended amplifiers address this issue with his Active Balance feature, that injects a signal into each channel to null the impedance fluctuations coming from the opposite channel.  Most single-ended amps do not have Active Balance, but as much as I love my Meier Stepdance, and as much as I do not doubt that impedance fluctuations are perfectly nulled by his Active Balance feature, theoretically, I do not believe that Active Balance can exercise the control that a good quad push-pull design can have. I say this even though the Stepdance is very high resolving and lacks nothing in terms of tightness in the bass frequencies. So my belief is more theoretical than it is from experience.  On this note, let me say that my iBasso PB2, equipped with LME49990s and HA5002 buffers, offers more power than the Stepdance, but I cannot say that it is higher resolving, even in the bass frequencies.  The extra power of the PB2 over the Stepdance offers better dynamics or PRAT, with perhaps a bit more bass extension, but not necessarily the higher resolution which I would think should come with a quad push-pull design.  So again, I'm generalizing when I say that I believe a good quad push-pull balanced output amp should offer higher resolution than a single-ended design.

 

My experience with balanced-output from DAC to Amp is very limited - to testing I did while I had possession of the iBasso DB2 (Boomslang2), a dual Wolfson DAC offering both single-ended and balanced outputs.  Using an iPhone app SPL Meter (by JL Audio) and a lapel microphone placed between the ear pads of my LCD-2 rev.1, I confirmed that I was getting the same 85.0 dB SPL when playing a white noise WAV file through my iBasso PB2 Pelican, balanced out via Toxic Cables Silver Poison cables, whether I fed the amp single-ended or balanced from the DAC.  In a blind test with a friend's assistance, I could not hear any difference between using the DAC balanced out to the amp vs. the same DAC singled-ended out to the amp.  My source was various 44.1/16 and 96/24 WAV files played using Foobar with WASAPI on a Windows 7 laptop -> USB -> iBasso DB2.

 

When you think about it, unlike headphones, there are no moving parts within an amplifier, having either mass or inertia, and thus, there's no need for the DAC to have balanced output to the amp, at least not for the benefits enjoyed when having balanced output from an amp to headphones with moving parts.

 

This is just my opinion, but I don't believe that it's necessary to have a fully balanced system.  I think the only benefit available for balanced connections between DAC and amp is the rejection of noise that can be an issue when you have particularly long cable runs - where common mode interference can be troublesome.  Otherwise, I don't believe there's any real need for balanced output DACs.

 

Consider also that there are several highly respected reviewers here on Head-Fi, who don't even use balanced-output amps, much less balanced-output DACs, preferring instead single-ended amps like the Leben CS300 at the high end, or even the DACmini CX, at low end - as their favorite amps.  

 

Lastly,

 

     Quoting this 6Moons interview of ALO's Ken Ball:

 


"To obtain a balanced working signal, a non-inverting amplifier buffers the input signal. The output of that amplifier is inverted with a unity-gain amp. The balanced signal is then taken from the outputs of both amps which are contained within the same IC. The worst-case mismatch between inverting and non-inverting outputs is 0.02dB. Going in single-ended [as input to the balanced Rx-Mk-3-B] is thus no worse than balanced. The real advantage of the RxMk3-b is its fully balanced amplification circuit and ability to drive all headphones in balanced mode."

 

Ken Ball is saying that nothing is accomplished feeding his balanced amp with a balanced output DAC vs. a single-ended output DAC.  

 

In summary, I'll say the best reason for going to a balanced output amp is for the dynamics and bass control offered with the additional power that normally accompanies balanced amps - especially when driving power-hungry headphones.  And the best reason for going to a balanced output DAC is for noise reduction on long cable runs.

 

Mike


Edited by zilch0md - 10/30/12 at 7:11pm
post #150 of 352

ALO audio would first like to thank everyone who purchased a Cypher Labs Solo dB from ALO.

 

Regretfully a flaw in the balanced output of this last batch of the Solo -dB has been identified.  We anticipate an official statement from Cypher Labs on this matter, but in the mean time we would like to acknowledge the issue immediately. We feel terrible for having sold units though ALO audio and would like to personally take responsibility for this situation. We are traveling back from the Fujiya-Avic headphone festival in Tokyo. We will contact each customer individually who purchased a Cypher Labs Solo dB from ALOaudio.com with details about replacing the faulty units. Needless to say, we will fully cover the cost of replacing or refunding each and every customer, including shipping costs.

 

I would like to personally thank AnakChan, ExpatinJapan  and Currawong for spending time with the ALO audio team and for your kind support and help.

 

Thank you,

 

Ken

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