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Colorfly C3, Hisoundaudio Rocoop, or Hifiman 601 - Page 8

post #106 of 181

Its more than that, i tried it with all my higher end stuff, re272, pfe, er4s, sm3, eph-100 and lastly extensively with my triple.fi 10 which jack told me direct had been the referance phone they had used when designing the player.  It just sounds average plain and simple, hiss has been reduced from the previous but if you seriously consider the level of hiss present on that thing to be considered a hi-fi dap or even good sounding then bluntly there is something wrong.  They claim great battery life on SETTING 3, well blow me i had that thing up to 31 on some of my cans with 17-23 being average for IEM's upon opening it you see the reason for great battery life 1. A whopping battery to fill all that space inside 2. No class A amp.

 

The average sound comes from no doubt the very cheap parts used in the thing.  Hardware wise in those players your talking $30 dollars worth of parts  (and I believe I am being genrous) then they have the audacity to charge $460 for the thing, that is just flat out insulting to the consumer.  Not to mention the fact they stamp class A inside on their products when it isnt.  When other companies are out there creating innovative solutions or at least attempting to create something, hisound seem to slap stuff together stamp a high price on it and create an illusion that it is better sounding.  The reason they offer these ridiculous massive discounts is that they will still be selling them for a large profit, get people in love with them and when the offers over people will still pay the now even more ridiculous price.  

 

Next month I will be posting something even more revealing about there little return scheme on the studios amongst other things, as for now I am waiting on a few more emails to come in from some industry folk that are also check stuff.

 

I guess thats all for a while on it but buyer beware.

post #107 of 181

If you care to look most of those review are from posters with only a few posts, how do we know what else the have heard to compare it to? or whether they are shilling or not?  there are very few peoples opinions on sq matters on here I trust Nwytboy, clieos, joker and H20fidelity being some everything else must be taken with caution.

post #108 of 181
Thread Starter 

im thinking of getting a cowon to step my foot in to the start of "audiophile daps" just to get my feet wet and i not be such a huge contrast. then get the c3 and rocoo and hifiman in good time but i want something easy to start me off. so i have listen to a j3 with a fiio e11 and with out the e11 so is it true all cowons sound the same?

post #109 of 181

oh boy, stozzer and lee are both very active on head fi and I trust both their reviews, but I am a bit at a loss because they both say the complete opposites.  

 

Hisound did mention that they use an inferior dac in their Daps, but they say the engineering in the circuitry makes it superior to even daps with expensive dacs.  

 

I have to be honest and say that I don't understand what makes superior quality sound.  I thought superior parts would make for a superior sound.  That would be the logical sense, but if a company can really use inferior parts to make a superior sound.  That is something to applaud.  

 

Aside from hisound's service, we shouldn't bash the true quality of their products from their service.  From a sound quality only point of view, people actually have positive reviews on the sound of their products.  So I am a bit confused on what to think now.  

post #110 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by stozzer123 View Post

Its more than that, i tried it with all my higher end stuff, re272, pfe, er4s, sm3, eph-100 and lastly extensively with my triple.fi 10 which jack told me direct had been the referance phone they had used when designing the player.  It just sounds average plain and simple, hiss has been reduced from the previous but if you seriously consider the level of hiss present on that thing to be considered a hi-fi dap or even good sounding then bluntly there is something wrong.  They claim great battery life on SETTING 3, well blow me i had that thing up to 31 on some of my cans with 17-23 being average for IEM's upon opening it you see the reason for great battery life 1. A whopping battery to fill all that space inside 2. No class A amp.

 

The average sound comes from no doubt the very cheap parts used in the thing.  Hardware wise in those players your talking $30 dollars worth of parts  (and I believe I am being genrous) then they have the audacity to charge $460 for the thing, that is just flat out insulting to the consumer.  Not to mention the fact they stamp class A inside on their products when it isnt.  When other companies are out there creating innovative solutions or at least attempting to create something, hisound seem to slap stuff together stamp a high price on it and create an illusion that it is better sounding.  The reason they offer these ridiculous massive discounts is that they will still be selling them for a large profit, get people in love with them and when the offers over people will still pay the now even more ridiculous price.  

 

Next month I will be posting something even more revealing about there little return scheme on the studios amongst other things, as for now I am waiting on a few more emails to come in from some industry folk that are also check stuff.

 

I guess thats all for a while on it but buyer beware.

 

Strange because I listen at generally 5 or 6 on the Studio V 3rd ANV. It is way too powerful for me to be listening at 15 or more. I'd lose my hearing listening at such high levels. For me it's not necessary and I still get all the detail at low volume listening. Sometimes I'll find myself listening at volume 1 (with IEMs). Even my Tralucents which aren't that sensitive are driven very well by the Studio V. I listen at around 6 to 8 with the Tralucents and around 5 to 6 generally with my IE80s. While I had the RE262 (150 Ohms mind you) I listened at volume 12 max on my Studio V and that was already getting loud. Anyways, I bought my Studio unit during the introductory pricing so I saved a great deal of money on it. So for what I paid I see it as being very well worth the money. Same with the Rocoo BA.

 

Regardless of what their total cost is to make the product they have the right to charge what they want. If people didn't feel it was worth the price no one would buy their products. I can guarantee you most of these audio-product makers are making a lot more than what it costs for them to actually produce the items for sale. Otherwise they would not be in business period. That goes for Sennheiser, Hifiman, ibasso etc. They all have their reasons for their prices. They have the right to make money on what they produce. I can guarantee you the parts used to manufacture these products are no where near what they are selling them for. That goes for everyone. It's called mass-production. When you buy in bulk you save big time in comparison to what the average-Joe would pay for a couple pieces here and there. But you also have to take into account development costs, labor, etc.


Edited by lee730 - 10/25/12 at 7:54pm
post #111 of 181
Thread Starter 

supercrazy_tommy

i know what you  mean i respect both their opinions too. but the hisounndaudio useing cheaper parts but getting better sound it from what i can tell is two things. 1. they way the set the circuits which matters a lot because if you have the headphone in going to the dac then amp you can get distortion and it sounds bad. so that matters and #2 is the quality of the work from what i have seen and read hisound makes a quality built product which matters a great deal. because if you soder something sloppy then it will sound that way so that is at least what i take from it. but yet again i dont know i have never taken one apart.
 

post #112 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by supracrazy_tommy View Post

oh boy, stozzer and lee are both very active on head fi and I trust both their reviews, but I am a bit at a loss because they both say the complete opposites.  

 

Hisound did mention that they use an inferior dac in their Daps, but they say the engineering in the circuitry makes it superior to even daps with expensive dacs.  

 

I have to be honest and say that I don't understand what makes superior quality sound.  I thought superior parts would make for a superior sound.  That would be the logical sense, but if a company can really use inferior parts to make a superior sound.  That is something to applaud.  

 

Aside from hisound's service, we shouldn't bash the true quality of their products from their service.  From a sound quality only point of view, people actually have positive reviews on the sound of their products.  So I am a bit confused on what to think now.  


Not necessarily supracrazy. This is exactly where many are misled and come to false conclusions. Just because an item has a superior chip doesn't mean it will sound better than one with a lesser quality chip that has been "well-implemented". If your internals on the board are crap you will get crap sound. You have to look at the entire picture. Not just what DAC or Amp section an item has. The design will actually have a bigger impact on the overall sound. It all comes together in the end to make great or mediocre sound.


Edited by lee730 - 10/25/12 at 7:58pm
post #113 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicaudiophile View Post

im thinking of getting a cowon to step my foot in to the start of "audiophile daps" just to get my feet wet and i not be such a huge contrast. then get the c3 and rocoo and hifiman in good time but i want something easy to start me off. so i have listen to a j3 with a fiio e11 and with out the e11 so is it true all cowons sound the same?

To answer your question, no they don't all sound the same, soundstages vary, as does amounts of detailing plus a few other factors such as separation, dynamic property's, generally the higher priced models contain more of each. They do however stick to a "Cowon signature" but to be honest (I'd never thought I'd say this) the Cowons are still in a high end of mainstream focused. Basically I have owned three Cowon players. S9, C2, D2+ all of which were great besides the D2+ which I wasn't overly impressed with. But after hearing C3 I quickly realized there is better sound out there.

So, basically all I can advise you is on my experience possibly save yourself a few steps, maybe skip the Cowons and move straight to better stuff. (plus cheaper) A few weeks ago I would of said Cowon all the way, people here that know me also know how much I love Cowon but Colorfly have completely changed my opinion recently. I still like the S9 but it's showing to be inferior unless using lots of enhancements.
Edited by H20Fidelity - 10/25/12 at 7:32pm
post #114 of 181
Sicaudiophile what are you trying to drive?
post #115 of 181
Thread Starter 

i own shure 110 but im about to get some beyer dt770 250ohm or some audio tech. ad700

post #116 of 181
Thread Starter 

i also have akg k422s

post #117 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by stozzer123 View Post

If you care to look most of those review are from posters with only a few posts, how do we know what else the have heard to compare it to? or whether they are shilling or not?  there are very few peoples opinions on sq matters on here I trust Nwytboy, clieos, joker and H20fidelity being some everything else must be taken with caution.

 

Oh come on. How fair is that? Everyone has to start somewhere. I'm not necessarily the most polished reviewer here but I try to express what I am hearing in the most truthful way possible. Also once you are here for a while you should know how to wade through the garbage. Not saying that any of these people's reviews are garbage because that is wrong. They are all contributing to this forum which in turn keeps this forum alive. I do very much trust SolidVictory and Austin Morrow from their history and audio gear experience. Just as I very much trust ClieOS opinion regarding the Rocoo P and Sflo2 comparison. That alone tells me the Rocoo P isn't comparable to a Sansa Clip or a mainstream DAP. We all do hear things differently though. wink.gif


Edited by lee730 - 10/26/12 at 4:31am
post #118 of 181

The we all hear thing differently is on of the most cliched terms on here, yes very slightly we do, but very much not to the extent that people say that x is a billion times better than y.  It is seriously the most useless and deceptive phrase around here, more accurate I guess is we are influenced and push perception differently.

 

So what if we all start somewhere? Your basically saying that someone who has owned say a ipod out hp out his whole time then picks up a P or similar device and then writes a review on how "this sounds incredible"  well good on them, they have no basis/limited basis of comparison.   Its misleading and downright muddies the waters for people new to the site "that are also starting somewhere".  There are so many factors that can be brought in that forms their or my opinion and they are in no way even near valid in comparison to a)people who have tested extensive amounts of gear b) people who work with audio.  To point out a bunch of reviews where only 2 I could make out were near valid is, not fair.

 

In regards to the P is that brings it back down to average(and it only sits slightly higher than average beneath that) is hiss.  Why in gods name do people use terms like its an acceptable level? Its not.  basically you are taking whats meant to be there and then adds a constant hissing to that sound.  How can that not be seen as ridiculous, you are in fact getting further away from what the artist intended.  I didn't ever say elvis or anyone saying "hey, uh huh uh huh, know what this song really needs to take it over the edge, lets get a background singer in to make a ssssssssss sound uh huh uh huh".  Then theres the folk that say only noticeable in quite passages, that is the worst of that infraction and flat out ruins the song.  I dont want to listen to einaudi or mae or similar and when theres a thoughtful pause hear anything, it outright ruins the mood and feeling in the tracks.

post #119 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by stozzer123 View Post

The we all hear thing differently is on of the most cliched terms on here, yes very slightly we do, but very much not to the extent that people say that x is a billion times better than y.  It is seriously the most useless and deceptive phrase around here, more accurate I guess is we are influenced and push perception differently.

 

So what if we all start somewhere? Your basically saying that someone who has owned say a ipod out hp out his whole time then picks up a P or similar device and then writes a review on how "this sounds incredible"  well good on them, they have no basis/limited basis of comparison.   Its misleading and downright muddies the waters for people new to the site "that are also starting somewhere".  There are so many factors that can be brought in that forms their or my opinion and they are in no way even near valid in comparison to a)people who have tested extensive amounts of gear b) people who work with audio.  To point out a bunch of reviews where only 2 I could make out were near valid is, not fair.

 

In regards to the P is that brings it back down to average(and it only sits slightly higher than average beneath that) is hiss.  Why in gods name do people use terms like its an acceptable level? Its not.  basically you are taking whats meant to be there and then adds a constant hissing to that sound.  How can that not be seen as ridiculous, you are in fact getting further away from what the artist intended.  I didn't ever say elvis or anyone saying "hey, uh huh uh huh, know what this song really needs to take it over the edge, lets get a background singer in to make a ssssssssss sound uh huh uh huh".  Then theres the folk that say only noticeable in quite passages, that is the worst of that infraction and flat out ruins the song.  I dont want to listen to einaudi or mae or similar and when theres a thoughtful pause hear anything, it outright ruins the mood and feeling in the tracks.

So you basically saying that what's wrong with Studio or Rocoo is the hiss? I'm not saying that's not a valid point, too much hiss might as well be a big no for me, I'm just trying to make it clear. Maybe for some people the hiss doesn't ruin anything, so if it's the only real problem, maybe Hisound is quite alright for them.

post #120 of 181

But you see stozzer that is not fair. Everyone has to start from somewhere to get somewhere. Look at averagjoe. He started here as an "averagejoe" and look at him now. He's "the Custom IEM reviewer extraordinaire". To gain experience you have to get your feet wet. It won't just come to you out of thin air. What you are saying is quite pointless. The fact that there are multiple reviews on the unit says something. I agree there players are not perfect. I've disclosed this several times. But it hasn't stopped me from using their players now has it? It must be doing something right to keep me hanging on to it?


Edited by lee730 - 10/26/12 at 5:26am
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