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The New iRiver AK100: A High-End DAP - Page 27

post #391 of 8591

Unsubscribed also.... won't use high imp full-size headphones when going out..... frown.gif

post #392 of 8591

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by elbombastico View Post

Interested in this DAP but not much info is found in English, especially about the output impedance issue. So I decided to contact iriver directly about the low impedance issue. Here's their response:

 

[snip!] but rather high quality headsets and/or studio monitors with a higher impedance range from 30- 300 ohms. [/snip!]

 

What do you guys think about this? Are they right? 

 
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

I think it's time to unsubscribe. Low quality earbuds - right.
I've never really understood the desire to create ultra portable equipment only tailored towards fullsize headphones.

 

Hmmm...But I'm not certain if the AK100 can drive a headphone that's 300 ohms. As briefly mentioned in my views of this DAP, I was cranking up the volume quite a bit for just my TG!334's.

 

If that response from iRiver is genuine and final, I'm inclined to think lee730 is right.

post #393 of 8591

a tiny DAP designed for huge ass full size headphone that no one wants to carry out side of their home?

thats BS they need to set their focus group of the product right or they gonna fail as iriver usually fail to beat ipod or even samsung/sony's music player not even talking about their sister company like cowon.

 

 

guess I have to wait until local music store import some demo unit for us to try but for now unsub!.

post #394 of 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

Hmmm...But I'm not certain if the AK100 can drive a headphone that's 300 ohms. As briefly mentioned in my views of this DAP, I was cranking up the volume quite a bit for just my TG!334's.

If that response from iRiver is genuine and final, I'm inclined to think lee730 is right.

About the volume control, apparently there are 150 steps. You and me both were around what ? 50-60 maybe ? So if I'm not mistaken we should have been using about 1/3 of the volume range (assuming it's linear). So potentially yes, they can drive 300 ohms cans.

But the funniest here is the backpedaling. It was explicitly marketed to IEM users, and even said that high impedance is better because it sounds better in one of the marketing docs. Actually I'm not even sure there's any backpedaling, it may just be that no one as any clue.
post #395 of 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchbat View Post


About the volume control, apparently there are 150 steps. You and me both were around what ? 50-60 maybe ? So if I'm not mistaken we should have been using about 1/3 of the volume range (assuming it's linear). So potentially yes, they can drive 300 ohms cans.
But the funniest here is the backpedaling. It was explicitly marketed to IEM users, and even said that high impedance is better because it sounds better in one of the marketing docs. Actually I'm not even sure there's any backpedaling, it may just be that no one as any clue.


My question is "do you really want to spend this much money on a product where obviously these people don't have any clue as to what they are doing?" Either way you put it, it's not a good sign and doesn't garner anymore sympathy no matter how you look at it....


Edited by lee730 - 11/1/12 at 7:39pm
post #396 of 8591
Thread Starter 

Whats the DX100 headphone output impedance?

post #397 of 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpatinJapan View Post

Whats the DX100 headphone output impedance?


Less than 1 Ohm

 

Main Features:
- Android2.3 OS With Custom Audio Player Software
- Support up to 24Bit/192kHz Bit for Bit Decoding
- ES9018 32Bit DAC Chip
- Built-in +/-8.5V Headphone AMP
- 3.75" Capacitive Touch Screen
- Up to 24Bit/192 Optical/Mini Coaxial Output
- 3.5mm Headphone Output, 6.3mm Headphone Output, and Line Out
- 256-Steps Digital Volume Control
- 64G Onboard Flash
- Support up to 32G External MicroSD
- 3-Setting Gain Switch
- SRC Function
- Slow Roll-off/ Sharp Roll-off Digital Filter
- Support Wifi, Bluetooth
- Solid Case Made of Magnesium Alloy and Aluminum Alloy
- Audio Formats Supported: APE, FLAC, WAV, WMA, AAC, ALAC, OGG, MP3
- Come With Micro USB Cable, Coaxial Cable, and AC Adapter
- One Year Warranty and Ten Years Free Labour

 

Specification:
Power Source:Built-in 2000mAh 8.4V Li-polymer Battery pack or external power supply
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20KHz +0.1/-0.25dB
Signal to Noise Ratio:-116dB
Crosstalk: 1KHz0dB > -100dB, 20KHz odB = -82dB
THD+N: 0.002%
IMD: 0.0034%
Gain and Output Power: 0dB=2V rms (125mW/32ohm)
+3dB = 2.8V rms (245mW/32ohm)
+8.5dB = 5.0V rms (83mW/300ohm)
Battery Life: 72Hours (stand-by) or 7Hours (play music)
Battery Charge Time: 4Hours
External Power supply: 12V DC
Recommended Headphone Impedance: 8~600Ω
Dimension: 2.83W x 4.65L x 0.93H (inch)
71.8W x 118L x 27.5H (mm)
Weight: 265g or 9.3oz

 

post #398 of 8591
Thread Starter 

Recommended Headphone Impedance: 8~600Ω

 

That would put it at maybe less than 1ohms.

 

Has anyone actually properly tested it?

 

*Not being difficult - just wondering.


Edited by ExpatinJapan - 11/1/12 at 8:19pm
post #399 of 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchbat View Post


About the volume control, apparently there are 150 steps. You and me both were around what ? 50-60 maybe ? So if I'm not mistaken we should have been using about 1/3 of the volume range (assuming it's linear). So potentially yes, they can drive 300 ohms cans.
But the funniest here is the backpedaling. It was explicitly marketed to IEM users, and even said that high impedance is better because it sounds better in one of the marketing docs. Actually I'm not even sure there's any backpedaling, it may just be that no one as any clue.

 

Actually with you it was my 2nd time listening to the AK100. The first time was the night before with Shigzeo. I think I was listening around 90. didn't know there was 150...thought it maxed at 100. May play around with it again at the shops.

 

Anyhow, personally I didn't think it was that bad with my TG!334 but as you guys have pointed out, it may not be suitable for just any headphone. And as before, the DX100 still feels more 3D or holographic to me anyway...so guess no changing. Just the size seemed so nice.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


Less than 1 Ohm

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Main Features:
- Android2.3 OS With Custom Audio Player Software
- Support up to 24Bit/192kHz Bit for Bit Decoding
- ES9018 32Bit DAC Chip
- Built-in +/-8.5V Headphone AMP
- 3.75" Capacitive Touch Screen
- Up to 24Bit/192 Optical/Mini Coaxial Output
- 3.5mm Headphone Output, 6.3mm Headphone Output, and Line Out
- 256-Steps Digital Volume Control
- 64G Onboard Flash
- Support up to 32G External MicroSD
- 3-Setting Gain Switch
- SRC Function
- Slow Roll-off/ Sharp Roll-off Digital Filter
- Support Wifi, Bluetooth
- Solid Case Made of Magnesium Alloy and Aluminum Alloy
- Audio Formats Supported: APE, FLAC, WAV, WMA, AAC, ALAC, OGG, MP3
- Come With Micro USB Cable, Coaxial Cable, and AC Adapter
- One Year Warranty and Ten Years Free Labour

 

Specification:
Power Source:Built-in 2000mAh 8.4V Li-polymer Battery pack or external power supply
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20KHz +0.1/-0.25dB
Signal to Noise Ratio:-116dB
Crosstalk: 1KHz0dB > -100dB, 20KHz odB = -82dB
THD+N: 0.002%
IMD: 0.0034%
Gain and Output Power: 0dB=2V rms (125mW/32ohm)
+3dB = 2.8V rms (245mW/32ohm)
+8.5dB = 5.0V rms (83mW/300ohm)
Battery Life: 72Hours (stand-by) or 7Hours (play music)
Battery Charge Time: 4Hours
External Power supply: 12V DC
Recommended Headphone Impedance: 8~600Ω
Dimension: 2.83W x 4.65L x 0.93H (inch)
71.8W x 118L x 27.5H (mm)
Weight: 265g or 9.3oz

 

 

 

 

Lol lee730! Anytime for a free DX100 plug huh ;-)??

post #400 of 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

Lol lee730! Anytime for a free DX100 plug huh ;-)??

 

That free-plug was for all the pain & suffering I had to endure without my unit during the first batch RMA ;). Lemon of the lot :P.


Edited by lee730 - 11/1/12 at 8:32pm
post #401 of 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpatinJapan View Post

Recommended Headphone Impedance: 8~600Ω

 

That would put it at maybe less than 1ohms.

 

Has anyone actually properly tested it?

 

*Not being difficult - just wondering.


Your wish is my command ;)

 

http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/dx100.htm

 

 

RightMark Audio Analyzer test report

Testing device iBasso DX100
Sampling mode 16-bit, 44 kHz
Interface  
Testing chain UE Triple.Fi 10
RMAA Version 6.2.3
   
   
20 Hz - 20 kHz filter ON
Normalize amplitude ON
Level change -0.5 dB / -0.5 dB
Mono mode OFF
Calibration singal, Hz 1000
Polarity inverted/inverted



Summary

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB
+0.04, -0.24
Very good
Noise level, dB (A)
-90.6
Very good
Dynamic range, dB (A)
90.5
Very good
THD, %
0.0017
Excellent
THD + Noise, dB (A)
-83.4
Good
IMD + Noise, %
0.013
Very good
Stereo crosstalk, dB
-72.4
Good
IMD at 10 kHz, %
0.013
Very good
General performance
 
Very good



Frequency response

Spectrum graph



From 20 Hz to 20 kHz, dB
-0.38, +0.04
From 40 Hz to 15 kHz, dB
-0.24, +0.04



Noise level

Spectrum graph



 
Left
Right
RMS power, dB
-88.8
-88.8
RMS power (A-weighted), dB
-90.6
-90.6
Peak level, dB FS
-75.8
-75.8
DC offset, %
+0.0
+0.0



Dynamic range

Spectrum graph



 
Left
Right
Dynamic range, dB
+88.8
+88.7
Dynamic range (A-weighted), dB
+90.5
+90.5
DC offset, %
+0.00
+0.00



THD + Noise (at -3 dB FS)

Spectrum graph



 
Left
Right
THD, %
+0.0016
+0.0017
THD + Noise, %
+0.0078
+0.0079
THD + Noise (A-weighted), %
+0.0068
+0.0068



Intermodulation distortion

Spectrum graph



 
Left
Right
IMD + Noise, %
+0.0134
+0.0133
IMD + Noise (A-weighted), %
+0.0105
+0.0106



Stereo crosstalk

Spectrum graph



 
Left
Right
Crosstalk at 100 Hz, dB
-69
-69
Crosstalk at 1000 Hz, dB
-72
-71
Crosstalk at 10000 Hz, dB
-61
-60



IMD (swept tones)

Spectrum graph



 
Left
Right
IMD + Noise at 5000 Hz,
0.0133
0.0135
IMD + Noise at 10000 Hz,
0.0133
0.0135
IMD + Noise at 15000 Hz,
0.0133
0.0135

Edited by lee730 - 11/1/12 at 8:33pm
post #402 of 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

Actually with you it was my 2nd time listening to the AK100. The first time was the night before with Shigzeo. I think I was listening around 90. didn't know there was 150...thought it maxed at 100. May play around with it again at the shops.

Anyhow, personally I didn't think it was that bad with my TG!334 but as you guys have pointed out, it may not be suitable for just any headphone. And as before, the DX100 still feels more 3D or holographic to me anyway...so guess no changing. Just the size seemed so nice.

Not all headphones will be affected the same way, that's true. And even among the ones affected, the effect may vary. Besides, thinking that a higher impedance is going to automagically correct the flaws of an earphone, like I've seen around, is just crapshoot. The FR isn't the only thing affected, crosstalk and distortion will most likely suffer. It's possible that's the reason the DX100 was sounding cleaner, to you and me, with a better soundstage
Edited by frenchbat - 11/1/12 at 9:09pm
post #403 of 8591

frenchbat I'm curious where did AnakChan say "higher impedance is going to automatically correct the flaws of an earphone?" I might have missed it, unless I misunderstood your post... redface.gif
 

post #404 of 8591
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchbat View Post

like I've seen around,

Not directed to him obviously biggrin.gif, he knows it. The idea floated around at some point in the thread.
post #405 of 8591

Ok got it lol. Just kinda seemed to imply he was the one who made the comment :P. If anything I agree with you and think this notion is rather stupid and deceptive. Because generally a high output impedance is gonna have a negative effect on the IEM due to changing it's intended frequency response (especially on BA but also dynamics). Now maybe in certain instances this could benefit the IEM but honestly who wants to take a gamble at $600+ :P.
 


Edited by lee730 - 11/1/12 at 9:16pm
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