Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › The New iRiver AK100: A High-End DAP
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The New iRiver AK100: A High-End DAP - Page 16

post #226 of 8632
It might get some traction here. Few people actually know about proper Zout specifications.
post #227 of 8632

Sad..... tongue.gif As they same "some people are really good at selling ****."
 

post #228 of 8632
Sadly yes. Not that the situation's much better in North America or Europe, FWIW.
post #229 of 8632
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchbat View Post

Sadly yes. Not that the situation's much better in North America or Europe, FWIW.


Well I'll try to think more positive. If you have an opportunity to test it out would you keep us updated? I hope they take a hint from this thread (highly doubt it though) and consider modifying the unit to properly work with IEMs. Then I'd at least consider it as an option over my DX100.

post #230 of 8632
Quote:
Originally Posted by turokrocks View Post


 
 
WE DESERVE BETTER


Well, in my experience it is here and now but because it is apple based people on here dis it as not cool or it is Apple!

I have had my CLAS/iPod combo now for almost 18 months, yes it is three boxes (with the amp which is essential so yes it requires three charges and interconnects but you know what, From day one there has never been an issue, iTunes effortlessly rips my CD's to wav and then the transfer to my classic is seamless. It sounds wonderful and in comparison to all these buggy players with crappy on board storage it holds its own, perhaps the iBasso beats it sonically but I would trade that tiny extra ounce of sonic superiority for the ease of use any day as truthfully the gains at this level are so small contrary to the hyperbole on this forum tells us.

I don't want to have to carry around SD cards ( and oh yes remember you have to add the cost on with those) I don't want to faf around with stuff to get my track listing working, I want what i have, simple and it works and it engages me on the highest level with music.

Likewise everyone goes on about the mythical high bit rates, well, i have pretty good hearing and excellent quality headphones and whilst yes there is a difference it truly is so small with this medium as to be moot. I have found only when listening to high end home based speakers systems the differences between HD and wav become more noticeable.

But that does not matter for the forum seems to be full of that type of male that thinks with ego over anything else and it has to be the ultimate or the rest is rubbish mentality and they are prepared to forgive all for what amounts to a 1% increase in sound quality over something like the Apple/CLAS set up.

The other thing and this is iBasso specific is that you can be sure that before they fix this player from being Beta to actually ready to give the public trouble free service that they will bring an all new, all great version out and guess what, they will be a really great company as they will offer present owners a deal on their old player to upgrade to the new one. I think that is laughable and of course people will fall for it here by the boat load!
Edited by ianmedium - 10/19/12 at 1:38pm
post #231 of 8632

Guys - I think there is some kind of misunderstanding with the impedance.

Look at this: http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html

 

According to that table, the HiFiMan 801 also has a large impedance (18.11), and they make a separate IEM-specific card for it (IEMアンプカード) with an impedance of 33.69!

 

Could this be some other thing that isn't the same as the classic "1/8 the headphone impedance" value? The one early japanese reviewer was using it with IEMs as well and was enjoying the sound.

 

Edit: here is a terrible translation of an explanation and a graph http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmonoadc.blog64.fc2.com%2Fblog-entry-9.html


Edited by neryam - 10/19/12 at 1:46pm
post #232 of 8632

Don't think there's a misunderstanding. The HM801 isn't the best engineered DAP around. It has a sharp treble roll-off that pleases some, but that doesn't make it accurate. The reviewer is indeed pleased, but japanese customers are not very well informed unfortunately. A lot of the vendors are still trying to sell the Iqube that also has an appaling treble roll-off,

 

As to the impedance, the problem with a high Zout with IEM is that the most complex ones (mult-BA drivers mostly), will not be able to output the FR they are supposed too. You can actually end up with pretty much anything, but the most common is a bass emphasis, given that the impedance curve usually shows a higher impedance with the bass driver(s). Bottom line, nobody can actually predict what will be the FR you get, unless you're using a single driver IEM, and you most likely will end up with a pair of iems outputting much more distorsion than they are supposed too, as the drivers begin operating outside of their planned range. So unless you're trying to "correct" your iems because they are lacking MOAR BASS, it's rather preferable to have a good damping factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neryam View Post

Guys - I think there is some kind of misunderstanding with the impedance.

Look at this: http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html

 

According to that table, the HiFiMan 801 also has a large impedance (18.11), and they make a separate IEM-specific card for it (IEMアンプカード) with an impedance of 33.69!

 

Could this be some other thing that isn't the same as the classic "1/8 the headphone impedance" value? The one early japanese reviewer was using it with IEMs as well and was enjoying the sound.

 

Edit: here is a terrible translation of an explanation and a graph http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmonoadc.blog64.fc2.com%2Fblog-entry-9.html

 

@Lee : Can't promise anything, but I'm intending to go. Assuming I don't have to wait for a half hour to try the AK100, I'll give it a try. But again, my portable gear is not as prone to impedance problems as others. I have an ACS T1 Live for customs, which is well engineered (40 ohms impedance and fairly linear, no weird sub-10 Ohms dips à la JH Audio) and T15 for portable (single dynamic driver). If the AK100 makes these weird, then I don't even want to think about other models ...

post #233 of 8632
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchbat View Post

@Lee : Can't promise anything, but I'm intending to go. Assuming I don't have to wait for a half hour to try the AK100, I'll give it a try. But again, my portable gear is not as prone to impedance problems as others. I have an ACS T1 Live for customs, which is well engineered (40 ohms impedance and fairly linear, no weird sub-10 Ohms dips à la JH Audio) and T15 for portable (single dynamic driver). If the AK100 makes these weird, then I don't even want to think about other models ...

 

 

Sounds good. Maybe you can inform everyone at the meet the product is crap due to high impedance and clear the line ;). lol

post #234 of 8632

The impact of high z on most iems is vastly exaggerated and is quite funny seeing everybody completely dismissing it just because it has high Zout. The Sony Z  has a Zout of 27Ohm and everybody who actually heard it agrees that it just sound superb. I compared the HO and Line out amplified with various amps with close to 0  Zout and always preferred the HO.

post #235 of 8632
umm, no, no it isnt exaggerated, its actually very easy to measure, its easily seen on the basic measurements taken by a hobbiest of the effect on even a single driver low impedance headphone, add in a crossover and you have a really bad linearity vs frequency. its not rocket science and the levels are squarely in the audible range.

it seems people like the sony because of the EQ and effects most times, just because Sony couldnt get it right either and some people liked it, doesnt make it good design
Edited by qusp - 10/20/12 at 5:47am
post #236 of 8632
@ Frenchbatt: even if your T1 are 40ohms across their whole bandwidth (very unlikely is putting it mildly) they will be affected by an output impedance that is more than half that. do you have any links to a plot of impedance vs frequency for T1? I just googled for them and had no luck.

pretty much any crossover will have dips and peaks already and the crossover is adjusted to account for the natural dips and peaks in the response vs frequency of the individual drivers, a high output impedance will move these crossover points around and not linearly, so who knows what resonances or bumps may be exposed.
Edited by qusp - 10/20/12 at 6:03am
post #237 of 8632
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

umm, no, no it isnt exaggerated, its actually very easy to measure, its easily seen on the basic measurements taken by a hobbiest of the effect on even a single driver low impedance headphone, add in a crossover and you have a really bad linearity vs frequency. its not rocket science and the levels are squarely in the audible range.
it seems people like the sony because of the EQ and effects most times, just because Sony couldnt get it right either and some people liked it, doesnt make it good design


I have a question, how, many people recommend to use resistance adapter with balance armature IEMs?

 

for example, I have seen that many people believe that westone4 will benefit from adding 33 ohm impedance.

http://goldenears.net/board/files/attach/images/783980/727/049/002/239c6f0ccb9f33e0311d03adc8853719.png

post #238 of 8632
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenpunk View Post

The impact of high z on most iems is vastly exaggerated and is quite funny seeing everybody completely dismissing it just because it has high Zout. The Sony Z  has a Zout of 27Ohm and everybody who actually heard it agrees that it just sound superb. I compared the HO and Line out amplified with various amps with close to 0  Zout and always preferred the HO.

 

I don't think it's overexaggerated at all. Even on my Denon 5000s I noticed how the Fiio E9 just destroyed the sound presentation. The high output immpedance (9 Ohms) made the bass flabby (farty) and the treble sibilant and harsh. When I moved to the O2 amp it was much better. Now I can imagine how much worse this would be for BA IEMs with cross-overs. I mean if you love rolled off treble and bloated bass then more power to you.

post #239 of 8632

Audiophile-targeted?

 

Hmmm... having been let down very badly by my Cowon J3 with anything other than basic dynamic IEMs (the J3 sounds good in itself but lacks sufficient grunt to properly drive low-impedance CIEMs), I wouldn't even consider buying another DAP (finances notwithstanding) until I know for sure that it has:

 

1) low output impedance

2) good current delivery

 

Far too many people get sidetracked by glitzy techno-features or what DAC the DAP utilises. The amp section is absolutely every bit as important!

 

(please spare me any recommendations to 'add a portable amp' - I wouldn't buy a ferrari and then 'add an engine').

 

I had to sell my iBasso DX100 to free-up some cash, but that is one damned good DAP, even though it is unfortunately a bit on the bulky side. The DX100 really drives CIEMs properly and the difference in sound quality is moderately-spectacular!

 

I'll watch the AK100 with interest, as with the HM-901, but it's all talk until we get some proper reviews as to whether the amp sections of these DAPs are designed to do their job properly or if they're just window dressing.

post #240 of 8632

@Qusp : I don't think there's a plot anywhere for the T1 Live, unfortunately. I don't think the T1's impedance curve is perfectly flat, as you said, it's extremely unlikely. What I know however, from my discussion with ACS's boss and chief engineer, is that the cross-over of the T1 Live, has been engineered to even the impedance curve (they use a custom made micro-PCB specifically for the cross-over), comparatively to the T1S (previous model, 16 Ohms). And true enough, my actual pair is much easier to drive, with way less variation from a player to another.

 

That said, I'm guessing the dips are probably around the 20ohms mark, hence not as low as the JH Audio or FitEar models. In my comparison, I was talking about the amplitude of the dips, not the linearity itself. I guess my post wasn't clear enough, sorry about that. The T15 being a single dynamic driver IEM, I'm expecting it to have more linearity, but it might be interesting to try it with a high Zout, just to have an idea where the peak is located (assuming I can detect it by ear).

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

@ Frenchbatt: even if your T1 are 40ohms across their whole bandwidth (very unlikely is putting it mildly) they will be affected by an output impedance that is more than half that. do you have any links to a plot of impedance vs frequency for T1? I just googled for them and had no luck.
pretty much any crossover will have dips and peaks already and the crossover is adjusted to account for the natural dips and peaks in the response vs frequency of the individual drivers, a high output impedance will move these crossover points around and not linearly, so who knows what resonances or bumps may be exposed.

@Zenpunk : I advise you to read the following page, the explanation is quite clear : http://en.goldenears.net/1389


Edited by frenchbat - 10/20/12 at 8:30am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Portable Source Gear
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › The New iRiver AK100: A High-End DAP