The New iRiver AK100: A High-End DAP - Page 133

So actually which phone should be used for the un-modded AK100? The list on the iriver site shows some common portable phones with impedance < 100ohm, but they also said the AK100 should be used with high impedance phones for hi-rez music playback, it's really confusing...

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Originally Posted by hkppl 

So actually which phone should be used for the un-modded AK100? The list on the iriver site shows some common portable phones with impedance < 100ohm, but they also said the AK100 should be used with high impedance phones for hi-rez music playback, it's really confusing...

You'd be safe using an HE-6 to accommodate for the high output impedance and to get the proper quality from high res music ;)....

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Originally Posted by hkppl 

So actually which phone should be used for the un-modded AK100? The list on the iriver site shows some common portable phones with impedance < 100ohm, but they also said the AK100 should be used with high impedance phones for hi-rez music playback, it's really confusing...

It really depends on how you want your music to sound.  If you want the music to stay neutral and focus more on detail, then you will want a pair of headphones that will keep it that way.  For instance, my GR10s do that.  They are 32 ohm impedance.  I usually drive them at a volume between 50-60 (75 is max for ak100).

I also listen to mine using hifiman 262s.  They make it more dynamic and fun.  They have an impedance of 150 ohms.  I sometimes have to drive them at 65.  Still enough power to drive them though.

In general with IEMs, I don't recommend that you decide by impedance since other factors can determine whether it can be driven by a portable without an amp.  It would be better to check for reviews.  Find a set that fits the sound profile that you like.

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Gapless playback: that is really disappointing to hear. The other night I was listening to an HD soundtrack, and the interruptions really take you out of it. I guess it must be more challenging than I thought. I took it for granted since it's been working on so many devices incl. my iPod Classic several years old...

I still think we'll get the AAC/ALAC playback since iRiver has mentioned it in several places, incl. high-profile ones like Amazon.

High impedance and high definition are of course completely unrelated, "standard" definition files would be affected in the same way, and HD can sound great on a low-impedance device. (Not that it's been much of an issue for me so far.)

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Originally Posted by TheGrumpyOldMan 

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Gapless playback: that is really disappointing to hear. The other night I was listening to an HD soundtrack, and the interruptions really take you out of it. I guess it must be more challenging than I thought. I took it for granted since it's been working on so many devices incl. my iPod Classic several years old...

 

I still think we'll get the AAC/ALAC playback since iRiver has mentioned it in several places, incl. high-profile ones like Amazon.

 

High impedance and high definition are of course completely unrelated, "standard" definition files would be affected in the same way, and HD can sound great on a low-impedance device. (Not that it's been much of an issue for me so far.)

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I am disappointed by the lack of gapless too.   In addition to soundtracks, if you are listening to classical music, long movements are sometimes broken up into several tracks.   You don't want gaps there.  Really disappointing.

As for apple support, when i bought my ak100 from ALO (the US distributor), the guy there said that they were working on support for apple and itunes.  I don't know if this will include aac or alac or not though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkppl 

So actually which phone should be used for the un-modded AK100? The list on the iriver site shows some common portable phones with impedance < 100ohm, but they also said the AK100 should be used with high impedance phones for hi-rez music playback, it's really confusing...

Let's be clear here, based on either other people's -technical- explanations and/or -my own- experience:

- the high-impedance issue affects specifically IEMs, and more specifically multiple balanced-armature ones. (UPDATE: any balanced armature type apparently, incl. single)

- on these, it will alter the frequency response unpredictably. It depends entirely on the individual IEMs and some may actually not sound bad at all, it might even be affected in a way that will sound pleasant to you. There is no way to tell until you listen to a particular pairing, or it is measured. There is no point in making sweeping generalizations, or try to guess from other 'phones measurements. Some will be fine.
- the whole 8x rule is another sweeping generalization, and an old one at that, the output response esp. on modern designs like the AK100 is affected/mitigated by a number of other factors

- full-size around/on-ear headphones will all work fine. I like it a lot with the TH900, a bit more so than the 3000ANV (one recommended by iRiver) I got a Senn Momentum for work and with a little bass-tweak (NOT specific to the AK100!) and it's a very good compromise under the circumstances (portable, -really- had to be closed)

- thus there is nothing unusual about iRiver's suggestions. Whether one of the recommended fullsize headphones is to your liking is another matter, not so much specific to the AK100. The Shure IEMs: haven't heard them so I can't comment. I tried my own 535s with the AK100 and at least I heard the almost the same strengths and weaknesses I liked/disliked on any other amp I tried them. The AK100 did not fundamentally audibly change their sound, at least to my ears for what it's worth.

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As somebody else suggested, it might be worth looking into single large files with embedded cuesheets to deal with that issue... just when we thought we could put the whole FLAC conversion/fix thing behind us...

I think he meant AAC/ALAC playback support since it's mentioned in other places. Better playlist support will be problematic to say the least due to the (optional) multiple-drive/card design of the AK100 (as per one of my earlier posts)

I don't see why implementing gapless has to be such a hard thing. It really isn't. It should have been put into the design. Of course an audiophile is gonna want gapless music for gapless albums.... Even the DX100 has this..... The problem is they probably don't have a very good programer to begin with which is a problem with many of these DAP makers.
 

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Originally Posted by TheGrumpyOldMan 

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Let's be clear here, based on either other people's -technical- explanations and/or -my own- experience:

- the high-impedance issue affects specifically IEMs, and more specifically multiple balanced-armature ones.

- on these, it will alter the frequency response unpredictably. It depends entirely on the individual IEMs and some may actually not sound bad at all, it might even be affected in a way that will sound pleasant to you. There is no way to tell until you listen to a particular pairing, or it is measured. There is no point in making sweeping generalizations, or try to guess from other 'phones measurements. Some will be fine.
- the whole 8x rule is another sweeping generalization, and an old one at that, the output response esp. on modern designs like the AK100 is affected/mitigated by a number of other factors

- full-size around/on-ear headphones will all work fine. I like it a lot with the TH900, a bit more so than the 3000ANV (one recommended by iRiver) I got a Senn Momentum for work and with a little bass-tweak (NOT specific to the AK100!) and it's a very good compromise under the circumstances (portable, -really- had to be closed)

- thus there is nothing unusual about iRiver's suggestions. Whether one of the recommended fullsize headphones is to your liking is another matter, not so much specific to the AK100. The Shure IEMs: haven't heard them so I can't comment. I tried my own 535s with the AK100 and at least I heard the almost the same strengths and weaknesses I liked/disliked on any other amp I tried them. The AK100 did not fundamentally audibly change their sound, at least to my ears for what it's worth.

Almost all if not all single armature earphones have a radically rising impedance above 1Khz so that assumption about single driver units not being an issue is just incorrect. These look no different than a multidriver Shure unit.

High output impedance isn't needed for anything other than perhaps protection of the unit. Output impedance also affects more than frequency response. the 8-1 rule is actually lenient when it comes to damping factor which can manifest it's influence in more ways than just frequency response. Too little damping factor can dull character as well and you can't have too much unless a device was specifically designed for same. I agree that a db or 2 of frequency response isn't necessarily a big deal but there's more to it. Why should an average consumer even need to consider these aspects. He wont and hit and miss matching is silly for a device of this type at this point in time. I would think that those most interested will be folks with ciems, fitears, W4s, phonaks, 535s etc. It's a designer portable and most well meaned buyers are likely more discrete than to wear headphones on the go.

It would be interesting to have someone here with a rwa version, listen to it with some low impedance dynamic IEMs or headphones and then add 22 ohms in line and see if they notice it losing some prat.

The 1/8 rule also isn't a golden rule. As Tomscy had noted even though the Fit Ear 334 is around 43 to 45 Ohms impedance. That it is more of an average and not the true rating of the 334 (at least not the entire story). In reality the 334 is a multi-driver BA and basically what happens in this case is the mids driver is rated much higher than its bass and treble drivers (which are around 16 ohms instead). So having a DAP or source over 2 ohms is gonna impact the treble and bass on these IEMs in an unpredictable way although the unit is stated to be 45 ohms. Just some food for thought guys/gals...

Pretty much this leads me to recommend choosing a source (amp, DAP etc) that has the least amount of impedance. As close to 0 as you can get as this will benefit sensitive IEMs. What's more funny in this is I really don't think high impedance gear will be impacted from a source with low impedance suffice it has suitable power (at least not in a negative way). Which makes me wonder then, why have such gear if there's really no benefit?
 

2ohm would have little effect on the TG334.  See below.  Blue is less than 1 ohm, Yellow is 33 ohm and Gray is 100 ohm.

Hi Lee.

Just wanted to get your opinion because you seem to have experience with a lot of these players. How do these players compare- Hisound Studio V 3rd Anniversary, this iRiver Ak100 and the DX100? I'm really curious about the DX100 and I'm ready to bite. I gather you have sold this unit. Why did you do this?

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Originally Posted by dcfac73 

Hi Lee.

Just wanted to get your opinion because you seem to have experience with a lot of these players. How do these players compare- Hisound Studio V 3rd Anniversary, this iRiver Ak100 and the DX100? I'm really curious about the DX100 and I'm ready to bite. I gather you have sold this unit. Why did you do this?

I sold the DX100 because I wanted more portability. To be honest I was extremely happy with its sound. The UI was for the most part easy to use and in quite a few ways even superior to the AK100. If you are mainly concerned with sound I'd say the DX100 is the best option still. But if you also want portability and better battery life the RWA AK100 is a good option (not the AK100 for sensitive IEMs due to the 22 ohms impedance). Still I'm on the fence on whether or not I'm gonna keep it. I'm still burning it in yet so I'm not 100% decided.... Pretty much I wanted this player to be a clear upgrade over the Studio V in terms of sound quality and I honestly don't feel it is.....

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Originally Posted by shotgunshane 

2ohm would have little effect on the TG334.  See below.  Blue is less than 1 ohm, Yellow is 33 ohm and Gray is 100 ohm.

 

 

If you read my post I said "over 2 ohms" ;). Having a source that is 2 ohms or less would have little to no impact on the 334. Better yet the lower the better. But going over it does impact the sound. Personally I'd rather not have my source doing its own random-EQ for me :).