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post #16 of 26

This looks like an awesome setup! Will have to try putting one together someday.

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

 

Unless you have some other component you haven't listed, I suspect that's not happening. I know that the PSW10 only has a low pass filter. As Polk describes it, also features adjustable low-pass crossover. A lot of subs don't have a high pass filter even though they have speaker level inputs and outputs. If you are running the Lepai to the PSW10, and then the speaker line out from the PSW10 to the Daytons, it's not filtering any of the bass that goes to the speakers. 

 

All I know is the crossover built-in to the Polk subwoofer seems to allow me virtually endless options of crossing the bass over to the bookshelf speakers. As soon as I hooked up the subwoofer, it allowed possibilities of dialing the bass cross-over into the woofers of the Dayton bookshelf speakers, and then I was able to adjust both the cross-over and volume.

 

I'm not doubting you my friend, just telling you how it worked for me.

 

It instantly made the Dayton bookshelf speakers have huge bass when crossed over correctly and made them ear-damaging loud!. With huge bass, but the bass wasn't just coming from the sub! Suddenly, it seemed like the bass was coming from the bookshelf speakers. Bass they never had before. And of course, I know it's all a matter of adjustment, but those Dayton bookshelf speakers sounded wildly different once the subwoofer was attached, which didn't surprise me.

 

I had the Dayton bookshelf speakers for months without the sub, and there was never any chance of me finding out how flexible they really were until I got the subwoofer, and crossed it over.

 

The bass seems like it's coming from the bookshelf speakers, even though I know it's coming from the sub.

 

But there is no hole in the near-field. The bookshelf speakers cross-over into the subwoofer like it's all one big stereo. I can't even hear the bookshelves vs. the sub.

 

And yes, I am running speaker level high output into the sub first and then out to the Dayton bookshelf speakers.

 

NOW IT ROCKS! By every measurement!


Edited by StratocasterMan - 10/15/12 at 11:38pm
post #18 of 26

This info is linked from the PSW10 page:

 

Quote:
If your receiver or integrated amplifier doesn't have any connection specifically labeled for a subwoofer then you may run a right and left speaker wire from the receiver's speaker level connections to the corresponding right and left speaker level inputs on the subwoofer. Adjust the variable low pass filter to the lowest frequency that your main speakers are capable of producing. If you're not sure what that is, try setting the subwoofer to 100Hz and judge how it blends with the main speakers. If it seems a little too bass heavy and thick then reduce the setting to 80Hz. On the other hand, if the sound seems to be slightly thin and lacking weight, try increasing the setting to 120Hz. By careful listening and a bit of patience you will be able to get the sound to seem balanced and well blended.

 

The specs for your sub only specify a low pass filter crossover.  A variable low pass filter crossover can only cut off the top of the audio signal--it "passes" the low end only. This is why Polk is saying to try the crossover at the "lowest frequency that your main speakers are capable of producing." The idea is to make the sub rolloff at the top where the speakers naturally are rolling off on the low end so you get that smooth bass transition. If you set the crossover higher than that, then it can double bass--both the sub and the speakers are producing a lot of some of the bass frequencies. 

 

High pass filters built into subs that would simultaneously cut the low end from the signal going to the speakers are typically pretty rare these days (people with HT setups don't need it because of active bass management on on AV receivers) and are only found in much more expensive subs.  And when they have that feature, they state it. 

post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 

Okay, but I don't get it. This sub is working fantastically for me. I don't need to cut-off any high frequencies from my bookshelf speakers, because after all, they can handle the high frequencies. I only need to cut-off low frequencies from my bookshelf speakers, because those are the frequencies they can't handle. That is exactly what my subwoofer is doing for me. 

post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 

I'm wondering if you've had more experience reading about subs than actually dialing them into an environment, because it's really not as complicated as you make it seem. It's like anything else in audio. You can get get carried away with technicalities that don't make the difference in sound. The PSW10 is more-than-enough subwoofer in this desktop environment. If fact, it kills in the desktop environment! Don't you think a 10" powered sub under-the-desk is enough for laptop use?

 

http://reviews.cnet.com/subwoofers/polk-audio-psw10-black/4505-11312_7-31127154.html


Edited by StratocasterMan - 10/16/12 at 12:26am
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by StratocasterMan View Post

Okay, but I don't get it. This sub is working fantastically for me. I don't need to cut-off any high frequencies from my bookshelf speakers, because after all, they can handle the high frequencies. I only need to cut-off low frequencies from my bookshelf speakers, because those are the frequencies they can't handle. That is exactly what my subwoofer is doing for me. 

 

Of course the subwoofer crossover is not cutting off the high frequencies. That's not how the subwoofer and the variable low pass filter crossover works. A low pass filter only affects the signal going to the subwoofer. The speakers get the same signal regardless of where you set the crossover on the sub. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratocasterMan View Post

I'm wondering if you've had more experience reading about subs than actually dialing them into an environment, because it's really not as complicated as you make it seem. It's like anything else in audio. You can get get carried away with technicalities that don't make the difference in sound. The PSW10 is more-than-enough subwoofer in this desktop environment. If fact, it kills in the desktop environment! Don't you think a 10" powered sub under-the-desk is enough for laptop use?

 

http://reviews.cnet.com/subwoofers/polk-audio-psw10-black/4505-11312_7-31127154.html

 

 

I'm not saying it's not enough subwoofer for your setup. Just wanted to clarify here that the crossover is not working the way that you think it is, mainly so no else reading this misunderstands. If it sounds good, don't worry about.

 

And yes. See my user profile for all the subs I have (I also have a 10" car audio sub with separate amp). I participate a lot in the AVS subwoofer forum (more so than here on head-fi). Since you seem new to subwoofers, come join us if you want to learn more smile.gif

post #22 of 26

This is my current setup but I use the Dayton Sub 1200 and yeah the Dayton B652 are great budget speakers that really come alive when paired with a properly configured sub to fill in the low end these can't audibly reproduce.  They can do all genre's of music justice and great for gaming perfect for near field use at a computer.  I have to disagree with smaller subs being better for music then larger sub though.  A properly designed 12" sub will sound just as good for music if not better as any similarly priced 8" or 10" sub the whole bigger subs being "slower" and worse for music is myth

 

"If a cone can produce enough output at a given frequency then it’s moving as fast as it has to to reproduce that note. Large drivers are simply not required to move as quick as smaller ones.  If anything, smaller cones will need to move further than larger cones to move the required amount of air which requires more time. It could be said then that large drivers with massive displacements require the least amount of cone movement in the time required.  The funny thing is that because smaller drivers (all things being equal) are required to move further at any given time interval to move the required amount of air it could be said that they are required to move “faster”. How ironic"


Edited by DJHeadshot - 10/16/12 at 2:32pm
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by StratocasterMan View Post

Okay, but I don't get it. This sub is working fantastically for me. I don't need to cut-off any high frequencies from my bookshelf speakers, because after all, they can handle the high frequencies. I only need to cut-off low frequencies from my bookshelf speakers, because those are the frequencies they can't handle. That is exactly what my subwoofer is doing for me. 

He's right your sub isn't cutting anything out your speakers are still getting the full frequency audio signal just go to this site and run a 30hz signal at a higher volume and take of your speakers covers and you can feel the Dayton B652 woofers moving attempting to reproduce the signal.

 

http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

 

Nothing wrong with your setup it fine you've properly blended the sub properly so it fills in where the Dayton B652 starts to roll off and the bass sounds like coming from the 2 speakers as it should but the speakers and amp are still being burdened with low frequency sound.

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJHeadshot View Post

 A properly designed 12" sub will sound just as good for music if not better as any similarly priced 8" or 10" sub the whole bigger subs being "slower" and worse for music is myth

 

Yep. My dream sub is the Seaton Submersive HP with dual 15" drivers, and it is considered to be one of the best SQ subs money can buy for $2500.  

 

That being said, I suspect the best SQ value at a given price point will often be a smaller driver sub. Given say a 12" and a 15" driver in the same speaker line (same technology, same SQ), the larger driver is more expensive to make and requires a bigger enclosure (also adding slightly to the costs). So the Rythmik F12, which is considered one of the best subs one can buy for music for it's price, is on par in SQ with it's big brother the F15, yet cost less--it's cheaper to make. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJHeadshot View Post

He's right your sub isn't cutting anything out your speakers are still getting the full frequency audio signal just go to this site and run a 30hz signal at a higher volume and take of your speakers covers and you can feel the Dayton B652 woofers moving attempting to reproduce the signal.

 

The Dayton's are rated 70Hz to 22kHz.  Might not feel anything at 30hz. If they have any response that low, it will be next to nothing. I'd try 60hz when the crossover on your sub is set to 100hz. Just turn the gain (volume) down on the sub all the way before running the test signal. 

post #25 of 26

Hey, I came across your post recently and went about recreating your set-up. Except I cannot figure out the hook-up: same Dayton speakers, Same Amp, Same Sub. I did add a DAC though. I can get everything running smoothly without the Sub, but once I add that to the equation I'm stumped on connections. Could you please either describe the wiring for the newbie or take a couple of pictures of the back of the sub and the amp? I'd really appreciate it!!  And btw, thanks for posting, a year later and it's is still a very very good low budget sound!! Can't wait for the Sub though.

post #26 of 26

I believe he's connecting the amp into the sub, then connecting the speakers to the subwoofer using the high-level output.

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