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JPS Labs Abyss - Page 7

post #91 of 207

I think before we pass judgement on these we should see what kind of box is included. biggrin.gif

post #92 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post

I'm still waiting for some in-depth comparisons and listens from trusted sources here on Head-Fi. Most of what has been said on the thread is pure rhetoric, and no official figure has even been confirmed by the company.

So you're waiting for rhetoric because all that has been said thus far has been rhetoric rolleyes.gif

I hope future contributions will provide you with rhetoric that you find more agreeable.
post #93 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post

I'm still waiting for some in-depth comparisons and listens from trusted sources here on Head-Fi. Most of what has been said on the thread is pure rhetoric, and no official figure has even been confirmed by the company.

 

It's hard not to be extremely sceptical, after all, we had the ED-10s and Muramasa recently, both of which were crazily priced and the former getting a lot of negative feedback.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dBel84 View Post

I don't know if any of you have experienced this before but something has been gnawing away at me trying to place the voicing of the abyss. It finally occured to me what it was and probably would never have happened had I not been reflecting on my experience of walking around RMAF and listening to some of these exotic systems that you can only ever imagine from images in magazine reviews.

 

For me, the Abyss is the horn or plasma tweeter of the headphone world. If you have had the opportunity to hear massively impractical horns that people love to drive off suitably ridiculous exotic tube rigs. There is an etched presentation which few other speakers achieve. This is what I could not place when I was listening to the Abyss. I hate trying to describe what I hear but for illustrative purposes .....when a drummer taps the side of his tom with the stick you get that TAK sound , most speakers represent this as thwak or tok but those horns give you a razor sharp edge that goes TAK.
 
These come to mind as I can still recall listening to the 1812 overture on them in 2008, nothing on this scale at this RMAF but a few of the horn systems present had a similar sound and the plasma tweeter is similar

 

 
This is a very distinctive sound and makes brass instruments sound like someone is playing right next to you. I know orthos well and some are "stat" like but not even stats sound like these horns.
 
..dB

 

This is the issue I have, incidentally, with most IEMs I've tried -- percussion is very poorly rendered. Similarly with most speakers, after I listened to a rig with the top Piega ribbon-tweeter speakers and more recently with ELAC speakers, which are quite similar, it was almost impossible for me to consider any other kind of speakers.

post #94 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post

I'm still waiting for some in-depth comparisons and listens from trusted sources here on Head-Fi. Most of what has been said on the thread is pure rhetoric, and no official figure has even been confirmed by the company.

 

It will be the usual. A "trusted source" will proclaim that they are the best headphones they have ever heard, they will cost $2500, and we will all go following the pied piper, our wallets being torn from our pockets as the national debt figure rises even further.

post #95 of 207

I believe that the reason we never hear anything but glowing proclamations is because the most trusted of sources have such a reputation that they tend not to publish a review unless it's positive. If Jude or Tyll was constantly tearing down products, they'd never get demo units sent to them. So, in that respect, I consider a product good if Jude has anything at all to say about it most of the time. The reason I want to see impressions from one of these people is not because I want to hear positive news, but that if news comes it means it'll be positive.

post #96 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post

I believe that the reason we never hear anything but glowing proclamations is because the most trusted of sources have such a reputation that they tend not to publish a review unless it's positive. If Jude or Tyll was constantly tearing down products, they'd never get demo units sent to them. So, in that respect, I consider a product good if Jude has anything at all to say about it most of the time. The reason I want to see impressions from one of these people is not because I want to hear positive news, but that if news comes it means it'll be positive.

I don't know about Jude, but I know Tyll chooses what headphones to review quite carefully - he measures all headphones he can get, but is picky with which ones to do full reviews on. For instance, even though Hifiman HE400s are pretty widely agreed upon to be very very good, Tyll doesn't quite like it so he has been hesitant for the past half year to review it.

 

Although do note that if there are certain headphones that "deserve a beating" by Tyll's standards, he would smack em down. E.g. Ultrasone ED10 review.


Edited by jerg - 10/16/12 at 9:55am
post #97 of 207
I believe consumer reports blindly purchases all they test and does not accept advertizing?
If accurate, it would seem such a policy prevents suggestion of biased results.

Regarding not publishing negative reviews...first, i think most reviewers give the manufacturer
an opportunity to respond/resolve the issue prior to publication. That said, if after such the manufacturer
still wants to punish by removing ad dollars (vs. using the information to improve their product) do we really
want to give cash to an entity having such an attitude toward doing business?
post #98 of 207

Are we getting to philosophical now? How many people tried them so far? Where are they with their impressions? How these compare to other flagships? Anyone?

 

THX

post #99 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post
If Jude or Tyll was constantly tearing down products, they'd never get demo units sent to them. 

 

Do you think they should they get demo units sent to them? Or should they buy them like the rest of us have to? Then they could say whatever they want to about them, like the rest of us do.

 

I'd hate to be in their position, it's like you have to either appease the product distributor with a positive review or you have to shut up if you don't like them. But I know that it is taboo nowadays for high-end audio magazines to trash a product sent for review, and I'm sure that audio websites such as Head-Fi and InnerFidelity (affiliated with Stereophile) follow suit.

 

I really preferred the Stereophile format of 20 years ago when you would literally laugh at the way a product would get mangled. Corey Greenberg (in Jan 1993 Stereophile) described the sound of a pair of Dana Model 2f loudspeakers as "distorted satanic awful pathetic garbage. Nothing in real life sounds this dull...THESE SUCK!"

 

Can't do that these days. You can't risk upsetting the advertisers.  Without them, there is no magazine.        

 

 

Quote:
The reason I want to see impressions from one of these people is not because I want to hear positive news, but that if news comes it means it'll be positive.

confused.gif

post #100 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

 

I really preferred the Stereophile format of 20 years ago when you would literally laugh at the way a product would get mangled. Corey Greenberg (in Jan 1993 Stereophile) described the sound of a pair of Dana Model 2f loudspeakers as "distorted satanic awful pathetic garbage. Nothing in real life sounds this dull...THESE SUCK!"

 

Can't do that these days. You can't risk upsetting the advertisers.  Without them, there is no magazine.        

 

 

Quote:
The reason I want to see impressions from one of these people is not because I want to hear positive news, but that if news comes it means it'll be positive.

confused.gif

 

Not advertisers, but companies in general. Nobody is going to lend equipment to someone who might trash it in print, taking the company down with it. With many audio companies being family run, a single bad review or issue with a product can seriously hurt or destroy them. It has happened on here.

post #101 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

 

confused.gif

I wrote that last part while incredibly distracted, so it wasn't as coherent as it could be.

post #102 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

I'd hate to be in their position, it's like you have to either appease the product distributor with a positive review or you have to shut up if you don't like them.

From what I've understood, most of the time Tyll get headphone with the help of headroom.

They send them to him for measurements.

Otherwise , most of the time, manufacturers are not interested in sending a demo unit to Tyll.

post #103 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

 

Not advertisers, but companies in general. Nobody is going to lend equipment to someone who might trash it in print, taking the company down with it. With many audio companies being family run, a single bad review or issue with a product can seriously hurt or destroy them. It has happened on here.

 

And we've also had some companies whose products got great reviews but they had issues with quality control or defective items. But because they sounded good initially, they were able to fix the problems and bounce back with improved versions and upgraded versions. If they had received so-so reviews and had these problems, it might have been game-over.

post #104 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

 

Not advertisers, but companies in general. Nobody is going to lend equipment to someone who might trash it in print, taking the company down with it. With many audio companies being family run, a single bad review or issue with a product can seriously hurt or destroy them. It has happened on here.

 

I'm a little bit more forgiving of mom and pop operations but when they are bringing products to market at elevated price points my patience diminishes accordingly....

 

I've only been back here for the last couple months and will say I have had very positive response from Centrance, HRT, and JDS Labs...all regarding fairly direct questioning.

Unfortunately, I have had somewhat negative experiences with others who were evasive/unresponsive to similiar questioning..

post #105 of 207

These two articles from Stereophile are worth a read regarding the ever escalating prices of audio!

 

Skin Deep

912awsi.jpg

In the old days, when audio-show reports routinely appeared in the print edition of Stereophile, life was easier. I spent my show days visiting exhibitors and listening to new gear, but I decorated those days with record shopping, dining out, and staying up late to visit with friends in the industry. And because hard-copy deadlines always seemed to be at least a few days away, I would wait until I'd returned home before doing any actual writing.

The new way is better—expecting excitement from a show report in a print magazine is like expecting carbonation from an open beer you've found behind the couch the day after a party—but it's considerably more work. Most of the writing and photo editing must be done before leaving for home, which means that all pertinent facts must be gathered on-site. No more follow-up e-mails. No more frantic calls. No more screwing around.

I'm getting good at it. My handwritten notes from the Chester Group's New York Audio and AV Show, which took place in April at the Waldorf=Astoria, contain up to a dozen dollar signs per page: clearly, a sign of efficiency. But my New York experience touched a new nerve. It seemed that all I heard at the show, every hour, in the majority of rooms, was "$20,000." How much is that amp? "$20,000." How much is that preamp? "$20,000." How much is that cable? "$20,000." I have a vague recollection of going to one room, inquiring about a rack full of upmarket gear, and hearing a shopkeeper repeat, over and again, as he pointed to each product in turn, "$20,000, $20,000, $20,000 . . ."

So I returned to those handwritten notes with an idea in mind: to find the average price of the products on display in each major category, as well as the average price overall.

The results aren't pretty. From my reporting, the average price of a new digital source component at the New York Audio and AV Show was $12,670. It would have been higher, save for AMR's forthcoming USB converter ($350). For turntables, the average was $18,196. That number, too, was nudged in the direction of sanity, in this instance by VPI's Traveler turntable ($1299). Tonearm prices averaged-out at $6184, phono cartridges at a cool $7544. The average loudspeaker price was $39,559/pair. Preamplifiers at the show sold for an average of $25,393. And I've saved the worst for last: Power amplifiers at the New York show were, on average, priced to sell for $37,331.

The overall average price at the Waldorf=Astoria? $20,982. My casually retrieved memory wasn't far off.

An amusing aside: As I write this, some twit on Web forum Audio Asylum has decreed that my system, which he has never heard, is not "high end." (Horrors!) The culprit appears to be my Shindo amplifier, which, he claims (without evidence), is "vastly overpriced," "horribly expensive," and "a rip-off." Interestingly, a pair of handmade Shindo Corton-Charlemagne monoblocks, such as I own, sells for less than one-third the price of the average amplifier at the New York Audio and AV show.

Back to the Waldorf: In fairness to both the consumers who have the means to buy such things and to the manufacturers who have cause to make them, I can see paying $20,000 for a domestic audio product, but only if it contains a minimum of $4000 worth of parts that stand a gnat's chance of improving the sound. And I'm happy to state, clearly and unapologetically, that I can see paying high prices for vintage products where and when supplies are low, demand is great, and those products' levels of quality and workmanship are extinct.

But it's time to call ******** on some of this stuff. It's time to call ******** on five-figure interconnects and four-figure isolation cones. It's time to call ******** on $30,000 amplifiers that would be priced to sell for $10,000, tops, if not for their massive, jewelry-like casework. The compulsion to make the best of anything is noble, but the inclination to rely overmuch on the brute force of excess and opulence in doing so is sloppy. And while I understand that the imperilment of the middle-class consumer base forces some start-up companies to aim up-market in order to survive—see JA's essay on this subject—I feel that the inability of so many present-day high-end audio manufacturers to offer outstanding performance for less than astronomical prices does not speak terribly well of their engineering talents.

*****

I went to an audio show at which the average product price was astonishing—not just high, in the sense that a BMW is priced higher than a Subaru, but freakishly high. Yet the majority of the sound I heard there was unexceptional.

I'm grateful for the existence of companies such as AMR and VPI, who appear to have the abilityand the will to make products that people of average means can aspire to own. So, too, do companies such as Conrad-Johnson, whose Classic 60 amplifier ($3750) combines quality, performance, and value in a manner that ought to be an example for all. So, too, do DeVore and Harbeth and Kimber and Peachtree and Quicksilver and Rega and Rogue and Spendor and Wavelength and others: companies whose sole focus is not always budget gear, per se, but who refuse to dress their BMW-quality products in Lamborghini cosmetics just so they can push them further upmarket. That practice has become far too common during perfectionist audio's last decade, and if it continues, we are doomed, with a capital F.

People who lack our enthusiasm for recorded music and exceptional playback gear delight in criticizing high-end audio as fraudulent. I don't share that point of view. We are crippled not so much by fraud as by a bit of greed, a bit of sloppy, cost-ineffective engineering, and a lack of willingness on the part of us all to speak up and say, I'm sorry, but an interconnect is not, under any conditions, worth as much as a new car. For me, that lack of willingness ends today.

 

 

http://www.stereophile.com/content/upward-price-spiral

 

The Upward Price Spiral

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