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PS1000 vs LCD-2 vs HD800 - Page 2

post #16 of 66

I wouldn't dream of spending this much on something without doing some research and asking for long-term opinion (not just sound-wise). If you look at the OPs profile, you'll see that a purchase of this magnitude is quite a venture for him. Many of us are not as financially capable as others on the forums, we just can't justify spending this much without due consideration. He does have his own opinion on sound between the three, now he just needs some affirmation from long-term owners on whether or not this is a sustainable purchase or not. I understand, diminishing returns, value is subjective, but people are trying to be practical here. He can like the sound of one can for a moment, but many other factors during short auditions can contribute to this impression. The PS1000s are very much a wow headphone, but whether or not he doesn't get tired of the sound is another thing all together. 

 

I'm of the opinion that short-term impressions can be accurate, long-term impressions can help you consider whether you will like this sound or not in the long run.


Edited by TwinQY - 9/30/12 at 3:27pm
post #17 of 66
Thread Starter 

TwinQY's pretty much right. Although I've auditioned all 3, but I didn't listen to the PS1000 that much. And when I did, it was in a pretty noisy environment for a short time during that Grado event. haha.. I think just for me I always had my sights set on HD800 and LCD-2. But was just surprised that I personally think I found something that has most of the strengths of the hd800 that i liked, but with more bass impact.

 

And as Twin mentioned too.. I was seeing if any more experienced owners or listeners of these headphones would have more long term experiences/insights as I do noticed my appreciation for headphones change too as I use them more. But yeah.. just trying to keep an open mind and seeing if any ppl have any insights on the quality of the sounds of these headphones that I may not have noticed initially. Will go back into the shop very soon to do a lengthier audition. Will post some of my impressions again later. haha. 

post #18 of 66

I've had my PS1000 for 6 months now,and i'm still amazed everytime i listen to them,they might sound different than the AKG K1000,(notice i said ''different'' not worse,yes that's right,i'm repeating myself,but i believe that when you get to a certain price point,the word 'better' should be replaced by the word 'different',at the end of the day,there is no right or wrong,just different peoples with different sound systems and musical tastes,just my two cents.

post #19 of 66

I have the HD800 and LCD2, and sometimes I fantasize about selling both and getting an LCD3. The only problem is that I'm still enjoying the **** out of those two cans!

 

But I have also been interested in the PS1000 for quite a while. I was thinking of dedicating that headphone to vinyl listening for its dynamics. Is there a consensus on what kind of amp it prefers?

 

Anyways this thread interests me, subscribed smile.gif

post #20 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

But I have also been interested in the PS1000 for quite a while. I was thinking of dedicating that headphone to vinyl listening for its dynamics. Is there a consensus on what kind of amp it prefers?
Good solid state, period. However good solid state doesn't mean the most repeated names on head-fi and this is why many people will tell you have to go tubes. The only tube that I have realized to make sense with the PS1000 was Cary Audio SLI-80 but I still prefer solid state. Accuphase C-3800 is one of the devices that show what a good solide state headphone amplification is all about and it's still not the top border.

Re: considered headphones - any today produced headphone is below SQ level of K1000 inlcuding all electrostats. The question is which headphone will let you forget about it's shortcomings while listening and which will keep you remembering that there is something missing. For me the PS1000 is the one that you quickly forget there is something the K1000 might do better and the HD800 is amongst those who remind all the time about its limitations. I've owned the HD800 for months and there were long weeks that I didn't move them from the place. The PS1000 is something that I quickly forget that "it's just PS1000" and just listen to the music. I don't like the K1000 for several reasons despite knowing they are superior ina couple of fields. First is ergonomics. I have to sit still and not to move If I want to have them positioned firmly on my head. Second thing is lack of low bass. Despite I feel how they shake from the bass reproduction, there is no corresponding sound reaching my ears. These are physics impossible to skip. The third thing, easy to manage actually, is owning the right amp. I would build for myself a matched one as neither speaker amps nor headphone amps are the right fit but I still haven't fallen into love enough to get them. I respect what they do and I can live without them. The LCD-2 is something that I have spent to few time with but I guess that there would be too much thinking of upgrading to LCD-3 while owning them. wink.gif
Edited by majkel - 10/1/12 at 2:40am
post #21 of 66

 Are you referring to this one? http://www.hifiexpert.eu/manufacturer/accuphase/accuphase-c-3800-precision-stereo-preamplifier.html

 

I bet it sounds fantastic, but I have to rob the bank first:-)

 

THX

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel View Post

Good solid state, period. However good solid state doesn't mean the most repeated names on head-fi and this is why many people will tell you have to go tubes. The only tube that I have realized to make sense with the PS1000 was Cary Audio SLI-80 but I still prefer solid state. Accuphase C-3800 is one of the devices that show what a good solide state headphone amplification is all about and it's still not the top border.
Re: considered headphones - any today produced headphone is below SQ level of K1000 inlcuding all electrostats. The question is which headphone will let you forget about it's shortcomings while listening and which will keep you remembering that there is something missing. For me the PS1000 is the one that you quickly forget there is something the K1000 might do better and the HD800 is amongst those who remind all the time about its limitations. I've owned the HD800 for months and there were long weeks that I didn't move them from the place. The PS1000 is something that I quickly forget that "it's just PS1000" and just listen to the music. I don't like the K1000 for several reasons despite knowing they are superior ina couple of fields. First is ergonomics. I have to sit still and not to move If I want to have them positioned firmly on my head. Second thing is lack of low bass. Despite I feel how they shake from the bass reproduction, there is no corresponding sound reaching my ears. These are physics impossible to skip. The third thing, easy to manage actually, is owning the right amp. I would build for myself a matched one as neither speaker amps nor headphone amps are the right fit but I still haven't fallen into love enough to get them. I respect what they do and I can live without them. The LCD-2 is something that I have spent to few time with but I guess that there would be too much thinking of upgrading to LCD-3 while owning them. wink.gif
post #22 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

But I have also been interested in the PS1000 for quite a while. I was thinking of dedicating that headphone to vinyl listening for its dynamics. Is there a consensus on what kind of amp it prefers?

 

Good solid state, period. However good solid state doesn't mean the most repeated names on head-fi and this is why many people will tell you have to go tubes. The only tube that I have realized to make sense with the PS1000 was Cary Audio SLI-80 but I still prefer solid state. Accuphase C-3800 is one of the devices that show what a good solide state headphone amplification is all about and it's still not the top border.

Re: considered headphones - any today produced headphone is below SQ level of K1000 inlcuding all electrostats. The question is which headphone will let you forget about it's shortcomings while listening and which will keep you remembering that there is something missing. For me the PS1000 is the one that you quickly forget there is something the K1000 might do better and the HD800 is amongst those who remind all the time about its limitations. I've owned the HD800 for months and there were long weeks that I didn't move them from the place. The PS1000 is something that I quickly forget that "it's just PS1000" and just listen to the music. I don't like the K1000 for several reasons despite knowing they are superior ina couple of fields. First is ergonomics. I have to sit still and not to move If I want to have them positioned firmly on my head. Second thing is lack of low bass. Despite I feel how they shake from the bass reproduction, there is no corresponding sound reaching my ears. These are physics impossible to skip. The third thing, easy to manage actually, is owning the right amp. I would build for myself a matched one as neither speaker amps nor headphone amps are the right fit but I still haven't fallen into love enough to get them. I respect what they do and I can live without them. The LCD-2 is something that I have spent to few time with but I guess that there would be too much thinking of upgrading to LCD-3 while owning them. wink.gif

 

 

Considering the C-3800 is over $18k I don't think that will happen. I shudder to think what the 'top border' is worth. But your mention of the Cary gives me hope that my WA22 might work, with its SE jack and impedance selector.

 

And yes the LCD3 is an issue for us poor LCD2 owners frown.gif

post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

 Are you referring to this one? http://www.hifiexpert.eu/manufacturer/accuphase/accuphase-c-3800-precision-stereo-preamplifier.html

 

I bet it sounds fantastic, but I have to rob the bank first:-)

 

THX

 

Wow that's even more expensive than Price Japan, they want 1,428,000 Yen which is $18,344. But € 28,700, holy smokes!

post #24 of 66

try a transformer coupled amp with the Grado phones, ECP audio makes on that is nice and the Eddie Current 2a3 is very very sweet. 

 

Personally the HD800s are nice and have a great WOW factor over time don't fully engage the listener. I love the Audeze 2 and 3 headphones and think they are some of the best cans made period but the sound stage can be  a tough sell. 

 

The grado's are well grados I have loved the ones I have owned and have owned more than enough amps for them but at the end of the day they were limited. The PS1 for me was the absolute best grado made followed by the pink driver rs-1, I've owned the hp1000s and they are great in the middle but significantly rolled off at the high and low end. 

 

No one can tell you what can you'll love as there are so many factors. I like speed, a natural tone and sense of space so my choice may not work for someone that wants warmth. 

post #25 of 66

Thanks, my WA22 is output transformer coupled so that should work.

post #26 of 66
I gave an example of a well sounding solid state headphone out. Look for an occasion to listen to it for the sake of knowing what good solid state sounds like. There is no need to pay such a lot of money to get equal or better sound from headphones. Results from the C-2800 and C-2810 should be similar but sure the main application of these preamplifiers is different than driving headphones. Woo Audio 6 SE works very well with the PS1000 but I can speak of a fully upgraded version only, with thoroughly selected tubes 274B mesh/6CY7 NOS from Raytheon, BG's, etc.
Edited by majkel - 10/1/12 at 5:01am
post #27 of 66
Thread Starter 

Majkel, thanks for the informative posts about the PS1000 and other headphones. Your point about the PS1000 is something I"ve been curious about.

 

Many ppl lately seem pretty caught up with wanting a pair of headphone with a flat frequency response. But because the conditions and limitations of speakers, headphones and live performances are all different. In order say for a pair of headphones with it's limitations and different listening conditions to actually sound like top grade speakers or like real live sound, should there actually be some accentuation or or coloring/altering to it's frequency response to make it less flat so that it would more sound like speakers or live sound? An example i mentioned was bass. With speakers and often live sound we get the bass coming through vibration so we can feel it. This isn't possible on headphones so perhaps for headphones a slight bump in certain bass ranges would actually make them sound more "accurate"? If this is the case then perhaps a ruler flat response headphone actually might not be accurate at all at capturing speakers or live sound?

 

But I was just curious because with the limitations and different listening conditions of headphones, perhaps a flat response might not be a true accurate depiction of what the original artists intended for us to listen to. Just something I was wondering about. Was going to post a seperate thread for this topic. 

 

Reason why I was curious was because there was this article I read the other night about the reviewer actually compared the PS1000 in a live studio recording situation where he'd first listen to the live performance and then instantly listen to the recording through the headphones and he stated that the PS1000 sounded as close to the real performance as he's experienced. I don't know how true that review was, but it just got me wondering if minor deviations from a flat response might actually be necessary for headphones to sound more like live performances or speakers.

 

I'm no expert with this and was wondering if yourself or anyone else with more experience could shed some light.

post #28 of 66

You should absolutely make this its own thread. 

post #29 of 66

if im not mistaken i hear'ed from innerfidelity and Sennheiser that the bass needs a gentle boost bump because a perfectly flat headphone would sound harsh, that's probably why you see a bump in the 100-300 hz range for most high end dynamic headphones (except orthodynamic headphones where the bass extends perfectly down to infrasound)

post #30 of 66

People also make the same argument for the uppermidrange and lower treble to be recessed compared to other frequencies of a headphone, to compensate for the fact that they're sitting directly on your ears.  Something that makes so many people hate Grado.  I guess it would sound closest to a live performance, if you have your ear stuck right up against a Marshall in an all concrete room.

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