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post #991 of 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michifan View Post

 

I think that streaming is a tangible model if you have varied musical tastes and don't want to invest a fortune in a music collection.  Since I've been part of Netflix/Amazon streaming, I haven't bought a single movie to own.


 

The brilliance of streaming is that you can listen to the same song over and over OR go on a wild journey - compare different conductors of Beethoven's 9th or listen to as many renditions of "Fly Me To The Moon" as your heart desires.  You can go on a Bee Gee's binge and then wander over to listen to Glen Campbell.  For someone that just loves the variety of music, its like renting the World's greatest music library.


 

I own almost every album I think I want, and I am addicted to iTunes Match, which gives you access (at AAC 256) to every song in your library (up to 25,000).  I'd pay $10.00 per month to have access across all my Apple devices to 24/96 versions of albums I already own via stream.


 

If your internet connection cannot handle this, you may want to try something other than a phone modem :)


I have Spotify installed, and love the ability to go off on instant, instinctive or off-the wall listening tangents. It is great, yes, but it sounds only so-so. It is part of my listening experience, but only a part.

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post #992 of 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by PalJoey View Post
 


I have Spotify installed, and love the ability to go off on instant, instinctive or off-the wall listening tangents. It is great, yes, but it sounds only so-so. It is part of my listening experience, but only a part.

 

I'm willing to bet a 16/44 lossless file would sound noticeably better on the Pono than a Hi res file streamed on an Apple device just because of the difference of internal electronic components. So while Hi res streaming can sound better on a decent home system and be pretty awesome, everyone interested in great sound quality on the go will consider High res players such as the Pono, and likely buy a few Hi res albums... until top DAPs can actually do Hi res streaming, which should be quite a while.

 

It's nice to have options.

 

On a different note, I wonder if the Meridian Dac made for the Pono was used in any of their recent DACs (Explorer and Director)...

post #993 of 1143

Apple will be offering High Res Radio (word is 24/96) streaming before year-end - could be through iTunes or Beats - but I know its has been a part of their strategy for some time.  Would assume the others will follow.

 

I find that my iTunes match sounds better than the streamed music I hear - but I haven't gone crazy A/B/X to tell the difference, mostly because I only need to stream away from home and have a lower expectation of the sound.  

 

I really believe that streaming will do for music what its done for movies, which has been a very good thing.   Considering that I can watch a movie at 1080p - and the highest res album is still a fraction of the size of that video file, the internet streaming technology is already in place.  The real concern I've heard has to do with people blowing out their LTE/4G plans with the data on phones.  

 

And before I sound too much like a fan-boy of streaming for the sake of it, I think it has its place for people that are younger or don't want to invest in a music library.  It will also dramatically reduce the piracy because it becomes less trouble than its worth.

 

HDTracks and PonoMusic are just inviting piracy with their FLAC pricing.  It's just too expensive and the type of people they are courting are going to want to fill up their Pono with HiDef music but aren't going to shell out $1,000 to do it when they can go on pirate bay and rip it illegally.

post #994 of 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tympan View Post
 

 

I'm willing to bet a 16/44 lossless file would sound noticeably better on the Pono than a Hi res file streamed on an Apple device just because of the difference of internal electronic components. So while Hi res streaming can sound better on a decent home system and be pretty awesome, everyone interested in great sound quality on the go will consider High res players such as the Pono, and likely buy a few Hi res albums... until top DAPs can actually do Hi res streaming, which should be quite a while.

 

It's nice to have options.

 

On a different note, I wonder if the Meridian Dac made for the Pono was used in any of their recent DACs (Explorer and Director)...

 

The Geek Wave will stream in whatever definition is put through it - its a DAP/DAC with higher audiophile components (including a Class A Amp section).

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-it-s-not-a-next-gen-ipod-it-s-a-no-compromise-portable-music-player

 

The not yet launched Geek Stream will stream via Bluetooth or direct connection to your iPhone/Android.  

 

Both of these products will launch around the same time as the Pono is scheduled to hit the market.  LH rejiggered their DAP offerings to leapfrog the Pono technically and get the UI right.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Meridian Pono is the Explorer - its the same 5ohm output and it'd be crazy for them to create something new for a project that never launched (Meridian Pono).  Personally, my sense is that the move to Ayre was a cost compromise, because everyone that's heard the Meridian Pono is quite pleased and frankly I don't see Ayre as having a cost advantage to Meridian for similar components.

post #995 of 1143
And I'm still waiting for my Geek Out, which was their first campaign....
post #996 of 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michifan View Post

 


 

The Geek Wave will stream in whatever definition is put through it - its a DAP/DAC with higher audiophile components (including a Class A Amp section).


 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-it-s-not-a-next-gen-ipod-it-s-a-no-compromise-portable-music-player


 

The not yet launched Geek Stream will stream via Bluetooth or direct connection to your iPhone/Android.


 

Both of these products will launch around the same time as the Pono is scheduled to hit the market.  LH rejiggered their DAP offerings to leapfrog the Pono technically and get the UI right.


 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Meridian Pono is the Explorer - its the same 5ohm output and it'd be crazy for them to create something new for a project that never launched (Meridian Pono).  Personally, my sense is that the move to Ayre was a cost compromise, because everyone that's heard the Meridian Pono is quite pleased and frankly I don't see Ayre as having a cost advantage to Meridian for similar components.


If the Ayre is also made in the USA as well as designed there, then that's a popular selling point in that territory, and the USA is the biggest single market in the initial plans.

post #997 of 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michifan View Post
 

 

The Geek Wave will stream in whatever definition is put through it - its a DAP/DAC with higher audiophile components (including a Class A Amp section).

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-it-s-not-a-next-gen-ipod-it-s-a-no-compromise-portable-music-player

 

The not yet launched Geek Stream will stream via Bluetooth or direct connection to your iPhone/Android.  

 

Both of these products will launch around the same time as the Pono is scheduled to hit the market.  LH rejiggered their DAP offerings to leapfrog the Pono technically and get the UI right.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Meridian Pono is the Explorer - its the same 5ohm output and it'd be crazy for them to create something new for a project that never launched (Meridian Pono).  Personally, my sense is that the move to Ayre was a cost compromise, because everyone that's heard the Meridian Pono is quite pleased and frankly I don't see Ayre as having a cost advantage to Meridian for similar components.

Very interesting. Yes, I was suspecting the Explorer to be it too, or very close anyway. 

post #998 of 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

And I'm still waiting for my Geek Out, which was their first campaign....

 

Open a ticket at 

 

http://geek.lhlabs.com/geekoutsupport.html

 

Be firm and demand a ship date.  It's the only way to get noticed and taken care of.

 

LH labs is growing faster than they have hired.  They want to keep quality control in terms of product and user support, but its come at the expense of frustrated backers.  

 

Personally, I think that too many crowd funding products should cap their pledges at a reasonable amount, possibly offer a discount coupon for a small pledge when the product is closer to development.  I'd rather have a sold out project, a good number of people on a wait list and a reasonable first build schedule then the kind of crazy-delays that are being caused by first-time manufacturers attempting to create a manufacturing company from scratch with little to no experience (especially with Chinese manufacturers).

 

I've NEVER had a single crowd funded project deliver on-time that wasn't already complete (ready to ship) when the funding ended.   It's the same story over and over, they weren't ready for the volume, they had supply/quality issues, the new supplier wants more money (because the first supplier never could have provided what they wanted in the first place).

 

I trust the guys at LH to deliver - but not necessarily to deliver on-time.

post #999 of 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by PalJoey View Post
 


If the Ayre is also made in the USA as well as designed there, then that's a popular selling point in that territory, and the USA is the biggest single market in the initial plans.

 

 

There is no way its going to be made in the USA.  Ayre has about 18 employees in Boulder, and would have already announced a manufacturing expansion to be able to make the number of Ponos that have been pre-ordered.  

 

Don't forget the the Pono is a kluge project - the original Toberlone design was created  as a housing for a custom electronic device that Neil's team had made up.  He first wanted to work with Apple, then he went to Meridian/Dolby and now the chipset is being made by Ayre.   

 

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/sep/28/neil-young-apple-itunes

http://www.whathifi.com/news/exclusive-neil-young-visits-meridian-–-pono-hi-res-music-link-up-imminent

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_25322942/boulders-ayre-acoustics-develops-chip-neil-youngs-ponoplayer

 

Meridian has the capacity to make the Pono in the US - but I just don't think that is enough profit for Neil's investment team and Meridian to make the player cost-effective at $300.  Ayre appears to be getting some of the profits / royalties from the Ponomusic store for the design work (along with increased brand recognition).  

post #1000 of 1143

And there's absolutely nothing wring with any of that.

post #1001 of 1143

Hello -

 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Neil Young has just replaced John Hamm as Pono's CEO. Here's an article from TechCrunch and a blog post from recording engineer Mark Waldrep. Much of the reaction in the audio community seems to be negative, with some contending that this latest move signifies "the beginning of the end" for Pono.

 

What do you all think?

 

Best regards,

Brian

post #1002 of 1143

Kickstarter update #35 detailed the upper management changes at Pono.  Why anyone would think this means "the beginning of the end" is beyond me, unless they are simply being alarmists. 

post #1003 of 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ableza View Post

 

Kickstarter update #35 detailed the upper management changes at Pono.  Why anyone would think this means "the beginning of the end" is beyond me, unless they are simply being alarmists.


...or indulging in wishful thinking.

post #1004 of 1143

I think they're finding out it is harder to start a new company than they thought!

post #1005 of 1143
Yikes, I didn't read my last Kickstarter update. I am concerned. I've been following Neil Young's progress in making his passion a sustainable product. I "Ponoed" up my $400 for a signature edition player as premium. I stood by the company even though I felt the transparency was suspect and their promotional material was information light. I believe that Mr. Young is a man of integrity. I also thought that the major labels on board were a sign of substance and depth. I felt a little uneasy when they abruptly switched from Meridian to Ayre but I wasn't in a panic given both companies are well regarded among audiophiles.

Although I recognize that Neil Young has been a part of the Lionel corporate structure, I don't know his abilities as a CEO, even if it his his own company. In no way am I betting against him. I would like to see this enterprise become successful. I've invested good money into it. But with this latest twist, I must honestly say I feel concerned about the reliability of Pono to deliver all that it has promised and the viability of a expensive downloading model when the world seems to be moving toward Spotify type streaming. Time will tell, I guess.
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