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PONO - Neil Youngs portable hi-res music player - Page 46

post #676 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

Apple's cost of a iPod Classic must be $50 or less. All the tech to make it has been made back. Apple is NOT a high tech AUDIO company. They may change but I bet there are no plans in place to make 'audiophile' type equipment. If they did, then iTunes et al would have to be redone.

Of course I open my mouth and whatcha know..................

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/04/10/rumor-apple-to-offer-hi-res-24-bit-tracks-on-itunes-in-coming-months

 

Is it possible the popularity of the Pono project and Neil's banging the drum brought it to Apple's attention?


Edited by Saraguie - 4/11/14 at 1:31am
post #677 of 1740
Even without steve jobs apple smells that glorious money they are missing out on.

They cant have missed all the hi res daps being released, not to mention the licenses they give for idevice dac/amps.

Must give many makers nightmares thinking of day Apple finally enters the hi-res business.

Beautiful UI for starters.
post #678 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpatinJapan View Post

Even without steve jobs apple smells that glorious money they are missing out on.

They cant have missed all the hi res daps being released, not to mention the licenses they give for idevice dac/amps.

Must give many makers nightmares thinking of day Apple finally enters the hi-res business.

Beautiful UI for starters.


I doubt that they will enter into high res world and make an audiophile product like a dap. However if they do, I will be watching very closely.

post #679 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post
 

Of course I open my mouth and whatcha know..................

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/04/10/rumor-apple-to-offer-hi-res-24-bit-tracks-on-itunes-in-coming-months

 

Is it possible the popularity of the Pono project and Neil's banging the drum brought it to Apple's attention?

If this is true, the hardware will follow!

post #680 of 1740

If you've been following Pono for a while, you know that Neil has been discussing Pono with Apple for years, and his inability to get Apple to go along with a development that incorporates iTunes with Pono is the reason for the separate Pono desktop player. I don't doubt that they've been monitoring the developments in this space, and that's one of the reasons that Apple at some point started selling a lot more headphones in their stores, and not just Beats. They've got employees who listen to their own music, and no doubt tell them what they're listening to and through. Hi-rez and high quality hardware may be a pimple on the elephants butt, but that doesn't mean the elephant isn't aware of its acne.

post #681 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 


I doubt that they will enter into high res world and make an audiophile product like a dap. However if they do, I will be watching very closely.

When Apple does, I'll bet it will have that terabyte flash storage I've been talking about, and lots of people will buy it and say this is great, why didn't anybody think of this before.

post #682 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokomo O View Post
 

When Apple does, I'll bet it will have that terabyte flash storage I've been talking about, and lots of people will buy it and say this is great, why didn't anybody think of this before.

Apple is going for the part streaming, part in-storage route. Of course users can always go full-on physical storage. This will make sense as high-speed mobile data/wifi increases its ubiquity, yet with reduced price.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/19/apples-music-streaming-service-to-eliminate-buffering-lag-with-locally-stored-snippets/

 

1TB will take awhile to realise though. 128GB on the iPod touch is already taking so long.

 

Apple makes bulk purchases, and need to move in volumes too. Instead of focusing on required flash storage, Apple focuses on delivering the quality experience. For example, Apple is trying to increase their camera's photo quality without increasing the megapixel. Higher megapixel usually means a bigger file, which requires a larger storage and processing power, which means lesser battery life.

http://www.macrage.com/apple-not-participating-mobile-megapixel-war-iphone-6-3322


Edited by eron - 4/11/14 at 7:54am
post #683 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post
 

Of course I open my mouth and whatcha know..................

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/04/10/rumor-apple-to-offer-hi-res-24-bit-tracks-on-itunes-in-coming-months

 

Is it possible the popularity of the Pono project and Neil's banging the drum brought it to Apple's attention?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpatinJapan View Post

1  Even without steve jobs apple smells that glorious money they are missing out on.

2  They can't have missed all the hi res daps being released, not to mention the licenses they give for idevice dac/amps.

3  Must give many makers nightmares thinking of day Apple finally enters the hi-res business.

4  Beautiful UI for starters.

1~ $$ motivates the for profit companies.

2~ Naive of me to think they have not been paying attention, but that is what I thought.

3~ You got that right!

4~ 99.9999 bullet proof

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiascogarcia View Post
 

If this is true, the hardware will follow!

+1

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokomo O View Post
 

If you've been following Pono for a while, you know that Neil has been discussing Pono with Apple for years, and his inability to get Apple to go along with a development that incorporates iTunes with Pono is the reason for the separate Pono desktop player. I don't doubt that they've been monitoring the developments in this space, and that's one of the reasons that Apple at some point started selling a lot more headphones in their stores, and not just Beats. They've got employees who listen to their own music, and no doubt tell them what they're listening to and through. Hi-rez and high quality hardware may be a pimple on the elephants butt, but that doesn't mean the elephant isn't aware of its acne.

Yes now that you mention it my old brain remembers the Cinnamon's Girl boyfriend has indeed been beating the drum to Apple.

 

I gave my wife the AK120 to play her mostly MP3 girly music, what the hell am I going to do with my AK240?  Apple please wait 12 months so at lest I can think I rented the ability to play good music for $200 a month......... :(  :basshead: ​

post #684 of 1740
post #685 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post
 

 

 

Yes now that you mention it my old brain remembers the Cinnamon's Girl boyfriend has indeed been beating the drum to Apple.

 

I gave my wife the AK120 to play her mostly MP3 girly music, what the hell am I going to do with my AK240?  Apple please wait 12 months so at lest I can think I rented the ability to play good music for $200 a month......... :(  :basshead: ​

You'll be able to sell it.  There will always be those users that would rather fidget with their player's UI than actually listen to music!  :wink_face:

post #686 of 1740
Quote:

In the Pono Player, Ayre began their work by designing the circuitry after the main processor retrieves the audio data from the memory and presents it in "3-wire" form - audio data, bit clock, and word clock. They chose the just-released version of ESS's top-of-the-line ES9018. It has two channels, comes in a very small package (5 mm square), and is extremely customizable, able to tackle the rigors of sensitive, low-level signal path design.

The filter generally favored by Ayre is a minimum-phase digital filter (to eliminate pre-ringing), with a "slow" roll-off, to minimize the overall amount of ringing (ringing can be thought of as an oscillation in the digital signal, causing all sorts of errors if misconstrued as actual signal to be converted to analog, which is engineer-speak for music). For the Pono Player’s D/A (digital-to-analog) converter Charlie went a step further and used a moving average filter for both the double and quad sampling rates because it has no pre-ringing, no post-ringing, no overshoot, and no undershoot (these create inaccuracies in the rendering of digital signal and sacrifice fidelity). In other words, it has none of the digital artifacts (digital artifacts also add to distortion and occlude signal) at all.

The DAC chip’s output comes in the form of current, so Ayre designed a proprietary, fully discrete, fully- balanced, zero-feedback current-to-voltage stage. This then goes to a fully discrete, zero-feedback buffer stage to drive both the headphone output and the line stage output. The output impedance is roughly 5 ohms, allowing the Pono Player to drive any headphone on the market with minimal frequency response errors.

 

Taken from Pono's update.

5 ohms!! Looks like it'll be dropping my backing soon...

post #687 of 1740

Thanks for that update... I got the email as well. Can anyone help me understand how the ES9018 stacks up to other DACS? I'm considering the D3, UD110v2, *fiio product*, or GEEK. THX.

 

btw, i have a O2 that I may use as the the Amp but would love a very portable amp-dac solution.

post #688 of 1740

Curious as to why 5 ohms would be a negative?  

post #689 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughscot View Post

Curious as to why 5 ohms would be a negative?  

Depends, it affects multi balanced armature type driver IEMs. If you don't use those then you're fine.
post #690 of 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiascogarcia View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

 
Of course I open my mouth and whatcha know..................

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/04/10/rumor-apple-to-offer-hi-res-24-bit-tracks-on-itunes-in-coming-months

Is it possible the popularity of the Pono project and Neil's banging the drum brought it to Apple's attention?
If this is true, the hardware will follow!
Apple devices can already play back 24-bit files though. XD
Up to 24/48

I hope they don't charge more for albums that are already "Mastered for iTunes," in which Apple already has the high-resolution files in their database.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hearo View Post

Thanks for that update... I got the email as well. Can anyone help me understand how the ES9018 stacks up to other DACS? I'm considering the D3, UD110v2, *fiio product*, or GEEK. THX.

btw, i have a O2 that I may use as the the Amp but would love a very portable amp-dac solution.
It really depends on how the DAC chip is implemented, just like op-amps. You can have the best DAC out there, but if it's poorly implemented, that "best" DAC is pretty limited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hughscot View Post

Curious as to why 5 ohms would be a negative?  
As a general rule for bass control:
Headphone Impedance / Output Impedance >= 8

With a 5 Ω output impedance, that typically works well with headphones of 40 Ω or more. Anything less and the bass response will probably affected in a negative way (looser, woolier, etc.) and is especially bad with multi-driver earphones, where the phase linearity and output impedance values can change a lot based on the frequency.

Like so: http://rmaa.dfkt.tk/Comparisons/32%20Ohm%20Multi-Armature%20-%20Cowon%20J3%2C%20Sansa%20Clip%2B%2C%20Sony%20A845%2C%20Hifiman%20HM-801.htm
or
http://rmaa.dfkt.tk/Comparisons/Hifiman%20HM-801%20-%20Impedances.htm
Edited by miceblue - 4/11/14 at 12:18pm
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