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PONO - Neil Youngs portable hi-res music player - Page 30

post #436 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokomo O View Post

 

Now, I've done non-blind A/B testing with myself and recordings in 16/44 vs. 24/96 or 24/192, and I've thought I could hear the difference. Of course, I recognize the inherent flaw in that experiment. So I did some single-blind testing using my 14 year old son as the test subject, on ten pairs of recordings. He never missed calling the HD track, not once. I know, you're going to claim it was single-blind and I telegraphed. Well, I'm going to tell you I did not and ask you to believe me--I know how to run an experiment. And yes, I did level match.

 

That's interesting.  Seems to run counter to what many other folks have experienced, but I would love to believe that there is 'something' to hi-res.  With all the controversy around Pono we should at least see more of these kinds of tests and reports.  Personally I doubt I could ever hear the difference, but then again I think that Spotify sounds just as good as my CDs.  :)

post #437 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendoji View Post
 

 

That's interesting.  Seems to run counter to what many other folks have experienced, but I would love to believe that there is 'something' to hi-res.  With all the controversy around Pono we should at least see more of these kinds of tests and reports.  Personally I doubt I could ever hear the difference, but then again I think that Spotify sounds just as good as my CDs.  :)

There's also the possibility that hearing degradation is in play as well.

But that's another story, another thread, and possibly something that shouldn't be in this forum.

 

For me, it does seem that it's all down to the methods in which the music is compressed. FLAC and lossless files for me seems to be a good reference point to see how well the "lossy" formats were converted.

post #438 of 1744

Thanks, Kokomo O! I think I hear the difference myself too, but I've heard so many people say it's impossible that I have started to doubt my own ears... Still: it doesn't keep me from buying the highest possible quality, because that's what I always do: I buy the highest possible quality that I can afford. It's a good rule of thumb to live by. :-)

post #439 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bas72 View Post
 

Thanks, Kokomo O! I think I hear the difference myself too, but I've heard so many people say it's impossible that I have started to doubt my own ears... Still: it doesn't keep me from buying the highest possible quality, because that's what I always do: I buy the highest possible quality that I can afford. It's a good rule of thumb to live by. :-)


There are plenty of people who claim loudly and repeatedly that nobody, NOBODY D'YOU HEAR ME? can hear the difference between mp3 and hi-res.

 

There were plenty of people who claimed loudly and repeatedly that CD was 'perfect sound forever' when it was launched.

 

There are plenty of people who claim loudly and repeatedly that the moon landings never happened, God created dinosaur skeletons to test our faith and that Justin Bieber is in no way unlistenably shrill.

 

They can all post links to scientific 'proof'. Apart from the last one. Obviously.

 

I archive my vinyl to 24bit/96kHz because I think it sounds great, especially when I compare the same track back-to-back from the same LP ripped to hi-res FLAC and ripped to MP3. 

 

For me, 24bit/192 kHz would take too much room and my system would probably not be up to making any improvements obvious.

post #440 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by PalJoey View Post
 


There are plenty of people who claim loudly and repeatedly that nobody, NOBODY D'YOU HEAR ME? can hear the difference between mp3 and hi-res.

 

There were plenty of people who claimed loudly and repeatedly that CD was 'perfect sound forever' when it was launched.

 

There are plenty of people who claim loudly and repeatedly that the moon landings never happened, God created dinosaur skeletons to test our faith and that Justin Bieber is in no way unlistenably shrill.

 

They can all post links to scientific 'proof'. Apart from the last one. Obviously.

 

I archive my vinyl to 24bit/96kHz because I think it sounds great, especially when I compare the same track back-to-back from the same LP ripped to hi-res FLAC and ripped to MP3. 

 

For me, 24bit/192 kHz would take too much room and my system would probably not be up to making any improvements obvious.

So have you compared your vinyl ripped to 16bit/44.1kHz FLAC to 24/96 FLAC? 

 

I can believe that people with better ears than mine could hear a difference between an MP3 and a lossless file, even though I cannot hear any difference(after a childhood filled with ear infections, etc.).

 

But using the same source(eliminating the different mastering argument), being your vinyl, is there really a difference between ripping it 16/44.1 vs. 24/96 if both are FLAC?

 

 :smile:

post #441 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achmedisdead View Post
 

So have you compared your vinyl ripped to 16bit/44.1kHz FLAC to 24/96 FLAC? 

 

I can believe that people with better ears than mine could hear a difference between an MP3 and a lossless file, even though I cannot hear any difference(after a childhood filled with ear infections, etc.).

 

But using the same source(eliminating the different mastering argument), being your vinyl, is there really a difference between ripping it 16/44.1 vs. 24/96 if both are FLAC?

 

 :smile:


That's something I intend to do, but haven't got round to yet.

 

I do have several 16/44 rips, but they date from before several turntable upgrades I did. Therefore, I deliberately did not mention the audible differences that exist between them and the newer hi-res ones, as it would not be an accurate or fair comparison. 

 

I'd imagine a newly-done 16/44 rip would sound good, though, and intend to make some comparison rips when time allows.

post #442 of 1744
I'm thinking about pulling out of my pledge due to being in the UK and the taxes and duty pushing the price up. Can anyone suggest another DAP at a reasonable price with a decent UI?
post #443 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisitsci View Post

I'm thinking about pulling out of my pledge due to being in the UK and the taxes and duty pushing the price up. Can anyone suggest another DAP at a reasonable price with a decent UI?


FiiO X5? Possibly iBasso DX90 when it will be released in a few days?

 

When you say reasonable price I think nothing can beat FiiO and iBasso units.

 

There is Sony ZX1 too but it is more expensive than the 2 I mentioned.

 

Cowon is bringing an 24/192 playback dap, P1, but nobody knows about the release date and the price.

post #444 of 1744

First thing I'd do if offered a Pono player to try is put it in my pocket and see if any of those plus/zero/minus buttons get accidentally activated by pressure against my leg. That could be annoying.

post #445 of 1744

By bringing in Ayre Acoustics, it's clear they're serious about making an uncommonly good music player.

 

But what I'm keen to know more about is the headphone amplifier circuit.  Is this this something yet to

be designed? For example, will it be quiet enough for sensitive IEMs?  Will it be beefy enough planar magnetics?

I wonder what they're using for their headphone amp design requirements...

post #446 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisitsci View Post

I'm thinking about pulling out of my pledge due to being in the UK and the taxes and duty pushing the price up. Can anyone suggest another DAP at a reasonable price with a decent UI?


FiiO X5? Possibly iBasso DX90 when it will be released in a few days?

 

When you say reasonable price I think nothing can beat FiiO and iBasso units.

 

There is Sony ZX1 too but it is more expensive than the 2 I mentioned.

 

Cowon is bringing an 24/192 playback dap, P1, but nobody knows about the release date and the price.


Thanks for your advice, much appreciated
post #447 of 1744

I've been intrigued by this whole story, and the other day downloaded a couple of 24/92 vinyl rips of early Black Sabbath albums.  They sounded pretty good to me!  Then I played the same albums on Spotify.  And the Spotify version was better.  This is utterly meaningless, of course, as it's highly likely that the ripped vinyl and the Spotify version are different masters, the latter probably being a newer remaster or one that I simply prefer.  But still, it goes to show that fixating only on bits and herz isn't the way to go.  :)  I will definitely do some more experiments.

post #448 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendoji View Post
 

I've been intrigued by this whole story, and the other day downloaded a couple of 24/92 vinyl rips of early Black Sabbath albums.  They sounded pretty good to me!  Then I played the same albums on Spotify.  And the Spotify version was better.  This is utterly meaningless, of course, as it's highly likely that the ripped vinyl and the Spotify version are different masters, the latter probably being a newer remaster or one that I simply prefer.  But still, it goes to show that fixating only on bits and herz isn't the way to go.  :)  I will definitely do some more experiments.


Take those 24/192 files in your computer, downgrade them to 24/96, 16/44.1 and 320kbps mp3. Then compare all those 4 files in blind test, make AB comparisons.

 

That's the only way you can find the truth. Don't forget to use a high resolution c/iem and/or headphone with nice source+amplification.

post #449 of 1744

Thanks Foolwolf!

post #450 of 1744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolwolf View Post
 

A few more updates in the FAQ:

 

"

9. Will the PonoMusic store support music purchases and downloads to non-US territories? Will people outside of the USA, UK, & Canada be able to download from a PonoMusic Store starting at the launch date in October? Or do they have to source their music elsewhere until a store is set up in their own country? 

At this time, we only have rights to sell music in USA, UK, Canada. We are working to expand our geographic music rights in the near future. In the meanwhile, you can obtain your music from other sources and enjoy playing them on the PonoPlayer. (Hopefully UK will be the same as for EU - as EU is a region of trade...)

 

I wouldn't count on that. Music licensing is done separately for all European countries. It's a huge mess compared to the US. While you can easily order a CD from another EU country, the same is not true for downloads.

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