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Best $1000+ amp for Audeze LCD2 - Page 4

post #46 of 59

     Quote:

Originally Posted by sobrietywarrior View Post

I'd prefer comments on amps that you have listened to with the Audeze LCD2 and LCD3s. Lets also keep this a none conflicting thread. Thanks tongue.gif

 

Unfortunately HeadFi is full of people making recommendations/comments about amps/headphones they have not heard of or even seen.  

 

If you are planning to make such a big investment in audio, there really isn't any excuse in not auditioning the items of interest either at a shop or meet before purchasing. At the end of the day, no one else's opinion matters apart from yours. Going off any review is basically buying with blind faith.  

post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

Sorry, you should have kept quiet. You have not heard the amp so don't insinuate that your amp is probably better. Your ears are not Skylabs.

When you've heard the damn amp, then you can go ahead and say something, anything, maybe then, it'll be meaningful.

 

Sorry I don't know what your problem is.

 

I have never slated the SQ of the DS. If I have a issue it's with RSA for charging 50% of the cost of the amp for the casing which had nothing to do with SQ.

IMO that's poor business and targets a customer base who are more interested in asthetics than SQ

If RSA produce another DS with the same features, power and SQ but use a much cheaper, but still perfectly good case, and sell that amp for $1500 - $2000 they would sell a lot more.

 

Based on pure value there is no reason to assume the DS is a better amp. I think it's reasonable that when someone is in the market for an amp in say the $2500 -$3500 they can expect the vast majority of the cost to be on parts and labour and not the one thing that does not relate to SQ. To be fair to RSA they don't hide the fact that the DS's price is 50% casework, which is very nice.

 

As you have probably never heard the Master-6/8 I think you are being very short sighted if you feel the Master-6 can't compete against the DS.

 

As this matter is not what this thread is about I hope we can now get back to the topic of the thread.

post #48 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

 

Sorry I don't know what your problem is.

 

I have never slated the SQ of the DS. If I have a issue it's with RSA for charging 50% of the cost of the amp for the casing which had nothing to do with SQ.

IMO that's poor business and targets a customer base who are more interested in asthetics than SQ

If RSA produce another DS with the same features, power and SQ but use a much cheaper, but still perfectly good case, and sell that amp for $1500 - $2000 they would sell a lot more.

 

Based on pure value there is no reason to assume the DS is a better amp. I think it's reasonable that when someone is in the market for an amp in say the $2500 -$3500 they can expect the vast majority of the cost to be on parts and labour and not the one thing that does not relate to SQ. To be fair to RSA they don't hide the fact that the DS's price is 50% casework, which is very nice.

 

As you have probably never heard the Master-6/8 I think you are being very short sighted if you feel the Master-6 can't compete against the DS.

 

As this matter is not what this thread is about I hope we can now get back to the topic of the thread.

While you didn't slate the SQ of the DS...you did insinuate the DS not being as good as your amp. All I'm saying is until you hear the amp don't make assumptions.

Price aside, I'm talking about pure SQ. It's known the DS has an expensive price tag because of the case work. But what you basically said was the DS is a $1750 amp

and should only be compared to lower entry amps, again without hearing it. I think the DS is one of the best amps out there, again focusing on SQ.

Yes, the DS isn't the best for orthos or dynamics, it's a very good combo for HE-6. That's not to say it's not good overall with all headphones.

It just commands a high price tag for being exceptional with 1 can. Especially considering there's a ton of good amps to choose from.

 

I've heard the Master 6 and IMO, the DS is better. That's just one's opinion, but the difference being I have actually heard the amp.

I just don't find it very meaningful when people talk about gear they've never had first hand experience with. Sure, we rely on reviews to give us insight on future purchases,

or to boosts our interest in some gear. But to take Rob's impressions of the DS as your own, uh that's wrong. Even if you trust his ears, they're not yours.

So sure, take the opportunity to listen to the DS and then report your findings. Maybe I'm being anal about needing to hear the gear, it just makes sense to me.

 

So in not being shortsighted or presumptuous, I don't know about the Master 8, but from prior experience I'm just not sure how much the Master 8 is an improvement.

But of course, it's very possible that it's a great amp. I won't say anything further until I get to hear one.

post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

While you didn't slate the SQ of the DS...you did insinuate the DS not being as good as your amp. All I'm saying is until you hear the amp don't make assumptions.

Price aside, I'm talking about pure SQ. It's known the DS has an expensive price tag because of the case work. But what you basically said was the DS is a $1750 amp

and should only be compared to lower entry amps, again without hearing it. I think the DS is one of the best amps out there, again focusing on SQ.

Yes, the DS isn't the best for orthos or dynamics, it's a very good combo for HE-6. That's not to say it's not good overall with all headphones.

It just commands a high price tag for being exceptional with 1 can. Especially considering there's a ton of good amps to choose from.

 

I've heard the Master 6 and IMO, the DS is better. That's just one's opinion, but the difference being I have actually heard the amp.

I just don't find it very meaningful when people talk about gear they've never had first hand experience with. Sure, we rely on reviews to give us insight on future purchases,

or to boosts our interest in some gear. But to take Rob's impressions of the DS as your own, uh that's wrong. Even if you trust his ears, they're not yours.

So sure, take the opportunity to listen to the DS and then report your findings. Maybe I'm being anal about needing to hear the gear, it just makes sense to me.

 

So in not being shortsighted or presumptuous, I don't know about the Master 8, but from prior experience I'm just not sure how much the Master 8 is an improvement.

But of course, it's very possible that it's a great amp. I won't say anything further until I get to hear one.

 

Actually I have not stated that my amp is better because until I get to hear the DS I won't know. I was making the point that given the cost of the DS casework you can't just assume that it will be as good as other amps in its price range, although it may well be, or cheaper amps that are cheaper because they have less flashy cases even though the internal parts themselves may actually cost more.

 

You say you have heard the Master-6 and you prefer the DS, well that's fine BUT was it $2000 better? I would much rather have the M6 and a a pair of LCD-3's rather than a fancy case.

I also want to point out that at the level of the LF, Apex Peak, M6, DS, EC BA etc etc it is not the case of which is better but rather what you prefer. I still believe that the M6 belongs in that company and at a far lower cost than all I have mentioned (there are certainly more maybe even cheaper that may also belong in that group)

post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

 

Actually I have not stated that my amp is better because until I get to hear the DS I won't know. I was making the point that given the cost of the DS casework you can't just assume that it will be as good as other amps in its price range, although it may well be, or cheaper amps that are cheaper because they have less flashy cases even though the internal parts themselves may actually cost more.

 

You say you have heard the Master-6 and you prefer the DS, well that's fine BUT was it $2000 better? I would much rather have the M6 and a a pair of LCD-3's rather than a fancy case.

I also want to point out that at the level of the LF, Apex Peak, M6, DS, EC BA etc etc it is not the case of which is better but rather what you prefer. I still believe that the M6 belongs in that company and at a far lower cost than all I have mentioned (there are certainly more maybe even cheaper that may also belong in that group)

I'm not sure I understand. Who's assuming? The OP's budget is stated as $1-3K, Preproman only threw out the DS along with others as interest checks. I was the only one

to comment on how good the DS is, again I've heard it. So you're the one assuming the DS isn't as good as others amps in its price range. I guess you don't see it, dude.

 

And again, I made it clear...I am only talking about the SQ not the casework price, ad nauseam. 

 

That's a silly defense, is anything really $2000 better than its counterparts? I mean really....You don't have to sit there and defend why you wouldn't buy the DS, again

without even hearing it. haha. And you keep saying you're not really judging the DS.....

 

That's fine, the M6 might be good, cool. You don't need to defend you purchases. 

 

All I'm saying is based upon your comments the DS would not belong in the group of LF. Apex Peak, M6, ECBA. etc. How you can come to that conclusion..no idea.

The case work is half the price of the DS, yet you haven't heard it, so you really don't even know if the DS punches "above its weight" I see you as being a bit ignorant,

but again, I am anal about needing to have experience with the actual gear, or you simply contribute nothing meaningful to the conversation.

post #51 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

 I am anal about needing to have experience with the actual gear, or you simply contribute nothing meaningful to the conversation.

 

 

I agree to this 110%  Hell i'm not talking about at meets either.  I'm talking about living with the stuff for a while.

post #52 of 59

The ALO PanAm is almost made for the LCD2, you should check this review smile.gif

 

http://www.headfonia.com/portable-desktop-alo-the-panam/

 

And it's kind of transportable.

post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Sorry I don't know what your problem is.

I have never slated the SQ of the DS. If I have a issue it's with RSA for charging 50% of the cost of the amp for the casing which had nothing to do with SQ.
IMO that's poor business and targets a customer base who are more interested in asthetics than SQ
If RSA produce another DS with the same features, power and SQ but use a much cheaper, but still perfectly good case, and sell that amp for $1500 - $2000 they would sell a lot more.

Based on pure value there is no reason to assume the DS is a better amp. I think it's reasonable that when someone is in the market for an amp in say the $2500 -$3500 they can expect the vast majority of the cost to be on parts and labour and not the one thing that does not relate to SQ. To be fair to RSA they don't hide the fact that the DS's price is 50% casework, which is very nice.
Ray makes amps how he wants. It is a hobby and a passion. He doesn't need to make them, but he does because he enjoys it and it makes a little money as a bonus. Questioning his business practices without getting to know him is your first mis-step. Ray makes it no secret that a higher than usual amount of the cost is in the casework, as you said, so if a buyer finds that uncomfortable there are other amps out there. And no you can't expect anything at any price range when it comes to shoppers. For some, the opportunity to find a very nicely cased amp with great sound is much more attractive than the same sound from a pedestrian cased affair, even with the added cost. For some finding the sound you like is just the first step. Finding it in an attractive package with attention to detail (such as Ray's casing) is the final step.
post #54 of 59
Thread Starter 
I would say I value SQ over appearance though appearance does matter to a certain extent.
post #55 of 59

I like that NJ thinks his amp is a $3K amp 'cause it's made in China but a DS is only a $1750 amp because it has nice casework and is made in the USA.

We should all love our own stuff this much! That's like saying the DS is a $6K amp 'cause Ray sells direct without retail mark-ups? Silly, really!

post #56 of 59

I don't know how the LCD2 will sound when paired with the Audio Electronics by Cary Audio Nighthawk, but I can tell you that the Nighthawk is a revealing amp.  It doesn't add any flavor to the music.  

Reply
post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by parbaked View Post

I like that NJ thinks his amp is a $3K amp 'cause it's made in China but a DS is only a $1750 amp because it has nice casework and is made in the USA.

We should all love our own stuff this much! That's like saying the DS is a $6K amp 'cause Ray sells direct without retail mark-ups? Silly, really!

 

If you knew the respective labour rates in China and US/EU you would not doubt that the Master-6/8 would cost around the $3000 price if made in US/EU and the majority of that price would not be from a fancy case!. 

Come on now its not rocket science.

 

I always look for value for money gear and paying nearly $2000 just for the casework means the DS is not value for money. Even if it sounded brilliant, which it might, I would always be thinking what else is out there that had better value than the DS. It's a fact that RSA could, if they wanted to, make a much cheaper DS that  a. sounds the same, b. has the same internal parts, c. same functionality, d. similar appearance  just by using a cheaper case (not necessarily one that looked much different to the one currently used). That to me is not good value.

 

I would also like to point out that I have never said the DS is a bad amp or that the M6 is the best. I have alwys held the belief that there is no 'best' when it comes to hi fi gear. However if you look at the list of $3000 amps I mentioned in an earlier post I know I have the best value amp out of that list and with the bonus of being powerful enough for the HE6. A feat only the DS can match.

 

Just for the record, a few months ago I got to hear and compare my M6 to a 4 board DIY B22 amp. Although this was not in my system I clearly preferred the M6. The B22 just sounded to distant and soft compared to the M6 although it did have a wider soundstage. This B22 I was told cost around $4000 mark. The B22 owner was also very inpressed as well with the M6 but is a DIY fan and has not bought an amp for years.

IMO this also shows that there is no 'best' and the M6 can compete at that level.


Edited by nigeljames - 10/6/12 at 4:42am
post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

 

If you knew the respective labour rates in China and US/EU you would not doubt that the Master-6/8 would cost around the $3000 price if made in US/EU and the majority of that price would not be from a fancy case!. 

Come on now its not rocket science.

 

I always look for value for money gear and paying nearly $2000 just for the casework means the DS is not value for money. Even if it sounded brilliant, which it might, I would always be thinking what else is out there that had better value than the DS. It's a fact that RSA could, if they wanted to, make a much cheaper DS that  a. sounds the same, b. has the same internal parts, c. same functionality, d. similar appearance  just by using a cheaper case (not necessarily one that looked much different to the one currently used). That to me is not good value.

 

I would also like to point out that I have never said the DS is a bad amp or that the M6 is the best. I have alwys held the belief that there is no 'best' when it comes to hi fi gear. However if you look at the list of $3000 amps I mentioned in an earlier post I know I have the best value amp out of that list and with the bonus of being powerful enough for the HE6. A feat only the DS can match.

 

Just for the record, a few months ago I got to hear and compare my M6 to a 4 board DIY B22 amp. Although this was not in my system I clearly preferred the M6. The B22 just sounded to distant and soft compared to the M6 although it did have a wider soundstage. This B22 I was told cost around $4000 mark. The B22 owner was also very inpressed as well with the M6 but is a DIY fan and has not bought an amp for years.

IMO this also shows that there is no 'best' and the M^ can compete at that level.

I am glad you like your amp and can recommend it so strongly!


Edited by parbaked - 10/6/12 at 3:55am
post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

 

Just for the record, a few months ago I got to hear and compare my M6 to a 4 board DIY B22 amp. Although this was not in my system I clearly preferred the M6. The B22 just sounded to distant and soft compared to the M6 although it did have a wider soundstage. This B22 I was told cost around $4000 mark. The B22 owner was also very inpressed as well with the M6 but is a DIY fan and has not bought an amp for years.

IMO this also shows that there is no 'best' and the M6 can compete at that level.

 

This is very interesting.  I've not heard the Master 6 - I have heard other Audio-gd amps (Phoenix, Roc, Roc SA, NFB-27, Reference 10)  None of them even came close to the B22,  I guess I have to hear a Master unit for my self,  But my experience with these I guess you can say lesser products - I was not impressed at all.

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