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HE-500, LCD2, D5000, DT770, SR80, on a speaker amp (Emotiva mini-X A-100) Project - Page 243

post #3631 of 3672
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post


If NAD is true to their specs and your hearing isn't overly sensitive and your room isn't extremely quiet.. Then it's gonna be good. The emotiva has worse noise figures, and significantly so, supposing the specs for the mini-x is a-weighted, which they most likely are.


Thanks again, you have been extremely helpful. I'll post how it all works out. Now I need to find somebody to build my cables as I have no equipment or time. The way I see it, I might spend say $200 on a decent 10 foot balanced cable (or so I hope). If I like the sound as much as I think is possible I might actually be able to sell my dedicated headamp. Although I love the a18 I have, if I already have a very competent integrated on hand it begs the question why have the additional component? I will be able to do some testing to see which provides the better listening experience. I love the idea of using my NAD more and having access to a remote control from my couch. Cheers.

post #3632 of 3672
You're welcome. Don't hesitate to ask if you got any other questions.
post #3633 of 3672
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

You're welcome. Don't hesitate to ask if you got any other questions.


You may regret that offer! But thanks, I will take you up on it.

post #3634 of 3672
The Q701 is pretty revealing and not all that insensitive. I doubt you'd ever hear any noise with the he560.
post #3635 of 3672
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

The Q701 is pretty revealing and not all that insensitive. I doubt you'd ever hear any noise with the he560.


Sweet, sounds very promising. I am trying to think why if you have a very good integrated amplifier that using speaker taps that that route wouldn't provide superior or at least equal performance as compared with a good headamp. I am unrealistic in thinking that speaker taps from my M3 should sound as good as my Yulong A18 does?

post #3636 of 3672
It could very well be just as good if not better. Generally you can get more for your money in speaker land as well, the market for speaker amps is much bigger than the market for headphone amps, which is just a niche after all. That is what I hear. Noise, imbalance and volume control are the biggest problem with the speaker amps.
post #3637 of 3672
Well, I was about ready to buy a Schiit Vali or Magni. I'm sure my Emotiva from the speaker taps sounds better than those.
post #3638 of 3672
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

It could very well be just as good if not better. Generally you can get more for your money in speaker land as well, the market for speaker amps is much bigger than the market for headphone amps, which is just a niche after all. That is what I hear. Noise, imbalance and volume control are the biggest problem with the speaker amps.


Very true. I am hoping that my M3 doesn't suffer from these problems as much. I know it isn't summit-fi by any stretch, but I think the M3 is a very well made and designed integrated so I will remain hopeful. Any suggestions on a good place to have custom cables made? Thanks.

post #3639 of 3672

There seems to be one very important aspect of the amplifier that hasn't been mentioned much here....

 

There are three reasons why using a "speaker amplifier" may sound better with particular headphones than using a "headphone amplifier":

 

1) If you have something like HiFiMan 6's, then their efficiency is very low and you simply need the power to drive them properly. If that's the case, then you probably don't need to especially worry about noise floor, and you'll have plenty of range on the volume control, so you won't be wanting any sort of attenuators.

 

2) Maybe it's simply a matter of the specific amplifier just plain sounding better....

 

3) Maybe it sounds better because your headphones really prefer having a low source impedance. Most (but not all) headphone amps have a somewhat high output impedance, which tends to result in a not especially flat frequency response, and one that varies depending on what headphones you use. Like speakers, most headphones present a rather complex load impedance to the amplifier - this complex impedance reacts with the output impedance of the amplifier to produce what can be very wide variations in frequency response. Some headphones are also sensitive to the amount of damping they get from the amp. (Just like speakers, damping allows the amp to "control" the movement of the diaphragm, and so possibly reduce distortion and other nonliniearities like ringing.)  The result is that a given pair of headphones will sound quite similar on any amplifier with a low output impedance, but may sound very different on different amplifiers if their output impedances are high enough to interact with the impedance of the cans.   

 

If you want to avoid confusion and poor results, it's important that you figure out which of these applies to you....

 

Here's why:

 

Most "normal speaker amplifiers", including the Mini-X, basically have a fixed-gain stage that is fed by the volume control - which is a variable attenuator. Since speaker amplifiers are designed to be used with speakers, they tend to have a much higher noise floor than, say, a headphone amp designed to work with sensitive IEMs.

 

If 1) applies to you, then your headphones pretty much act like speakers; they need the power, and aren't so sensitive that the noise floor is an issue, so its all good :)

 

If 2) applies to you, then you may or may not have issues because of the noise floor of the amp and because, with normal sensitivity phones, it plays so loudly that you barely get to move the Volume knob off the end stop.

 

If 2) or 3) applies to you, then you may be hearing the noise floor, and you may have trouble because the volume control doesn't "go down far enough"..... and, if so, then here's "the deal"...

 

If you put attenuators on the INPUT of the amp (the Mini-X), then you will be attenuating the input signal level. This will reduce the output level for a given input level, and so let you run the amp with the volume control turned up a bit more - which will make it easier to control. It will also attenuate any noise that happens to be coming from your source. And it WON'T RAISE THE OUTPUT IMPEDANCE OF THE AMP AT ALL. However, it also won't do anything about the noise floor at the output.

 

If, instead, you put an attenuator on the OUTPUT of the amp, then you will be attenuating the output level; however, you will also be RAISING the output impedance. The result is that you'll be able to use the volume control set further up, and you WILL reduce the output noise floor, but you will be sacrificing the super-low output impedance.

 

I'll toss you a few representative numbers here....

 

The output impedance of a "typical headphone amplifier" can range from about 0.1 ohms or less to as much as 100 ohms or so.
(The output impedance of the headphone outputs on our DC-1 DAC  is well below 1 ohm; many small headphone amps are around 10 ohms; most receiver outputs tend towards that high number).

The output impedance of a Mini-X is on the order of 0.02 ohms or so (the actual number depends on how you reference it - but it's REALLY low).

 

The output impedance of a Mini-X with an attenuator on its OUTPUT, as seen by the headphones, will depend entirely on the values you choose for the attenuator.

 

Specifically, if you use a "basic two resistor voltage divider" - with one resistor between the output and the load, and a second resistor to ground, then the output impedance will be the parallel combination of the two resistor values you use - in series with the output value of the amp itself. Either way, by doing so you will be raising the source impedance, and so reducing the damping and increasing the interactions between the amp and the headphones.

 

For example , if you use a divider composed of a 100 ohm resistor in series, and a 10 ohm resistor to ground, you will raise the output impedance of the amp (as "seen" by your cans) from about 0.02 ohms to about 9 ohms. This is a significant difference, and quite possibly a high enough output impedance to result in audible interaction with your headphones - both in terms of non-flat frequency response and reduced damping. If, instead, you use a 22 ohm resistor in series, and a 2 ohm resistor to ground, then your overall output impedance will be about 1.8 ohms.

 

You'll get the same 10:1 voltage reduction with either one, but that 22 ohm resistor will have to handle significantly more wattage. However, if your headphones are medium impedance (say 32 ohms or 50 ohms), the lower values will give you a lower source impedance, which may well give you an audibly better frequency response due to reduced interactions with the phones, and may also give you cleaner sound due to the better damping. (Of course, if noise isn't a problem, it's best of all to connect the phones directly to the amp's outputs.)

post #3640 of 3672

I just bought a used pair of HE-500's a few months ago, and think a mini-x would be a great starter amp for them. I've been reading this thread and others for probably the past 10 hours. Every time I think I know what I will need to do I find something else that makes me further confused. If I get the Stereo>Dual Mono>Banana adapters do I still need to add in resistors, and is there another adapter for that? What is the downside of this solution aside from clutter?

post #3641 of 3672

Generally resistors are not needed if you a hooking up to a solid state amp like the mini-x. You may add resistors to either control the volume attenuation (increase volume play) or to reduce the noise floor. Resistors also help the amp see a proper impedance (e.g. 8ohms).

 

For hooking up to the amp I strongly suggest getting a 4-pin XLR cable with a banana plugs adapter. The mini-x has a shared ground output but not all amps do. If ever you migrate from the mini-x to another amp that is balanced and does not share a common ground the XLR cable would still work either way and provide protection in both instances.

post #3642 of 3672
Quote:
Originally Posted by wessabi View Post
 

I just bought a used pair of HE-500's a few months ago, and think a mini-x would be a great starter amp for them. I've been reading this thread and others for probably the past 10 hours. Every time I think I know what I will need to do I find something else that makes me further confused. If I get the Stereo>Dual Mono>Banana adapters do I still need to add in resistors, and is there another adapter for that? What is the downside of this solution aside from clutter?

IMO just doing what I did was the cleanest solution: LINK

post #3643 of 3672

On Amazon.com ::Sherbourn PA2-50 Stereo Flex Amplifier..Sherbourn Was the Sister Company to Emotiva..

This compact amp will bring you audiophile-quality music-anywhere. Use it on a desktop amp, a zone amp, or even as a dedicated amp for a listening system. Equipped with digital volume control, switching for 2 sources, and plenty of power, it may be all the amp you'll ever need for a small, versatile system. Plenty of Power Even though the PA 2-50 is small, its power output is impressive: 50 watts per channel into 8 ohms, and 75 watts per channel into 4. It packs a serious punch for such a tiny chassis-feel free to use it with difficult-to-drive speakers! The Control You Need Choose from two different sources with soft-touch front panel buttons, and adjust volume with the precise digital volume control. The PA 2-50 also offers control inputs and outputs for integration into a larger system. The Sherbourn PA 2-50 combines two great sounding audio channels, a precision digitally controlled analog volume control, automatic input selection, flexible remote control and triggering options, and user-selectable AC supply voltage - all in one compact package. Design features like proven class A/B technology, Sherbourn's intelligent protection system, and true commercial grade construction quality and reliability make the Sherbourn PA 2-50 an obvious choice when you need a small, flexible, great sounding two-channel amp. The PA 2-50 Two-Channel Flex Amplifier The Sherbourn PA 2-50 is a medium-powered, audiophile quality, class A/B power amplifier with a wide variety of input and control options. The PA 2-50 offers two stereo inputs, each of which can be manually selected or configured to operate automatically, and utilizes a digitally controlled analog level control, which provides very precise control of gain, very tight channel tracking, perfect repeatability, and virtually no distortion.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sherbourn-PA2-50-Stereo-Flex-Amplifier/dp/B00ALPXF1A/ref=sr_1_1/179-2725172-3582132?ie=UTF8&qid=1418975876&sr=8-1&keywords=sherbourn+amplifiers

 

Anyone have this amp and gave it a go on the HE-500..

 
 
 

List Price: $269.99
Price: $199.99 + $10.99 shipping
You Save: $70.00 (26%)
 
Only 20 left in stock.
Ships from and sold by accessories4less.
May arrive after Christmas.
 
 
 
 
 
 
  • Remote control with digital volume
  • Auto or manually-switched inputs and on/off
  • Rear panel trigger, RS-232, IR control inputs
  • Bottom panel keyholder for wall mount
post #3644 of 3672

Also i will asked for inquires if any member on Hifi tried this Sherbourn Amplifier as well..Seems so similar to our much regarded Emotiva Mini -X1..

:::.Sherbourn LDS 2-150B Audio/Video Power Amplifier ::

(Ebay)   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherbourn-LDS-2-150B-Audio-Video-Power-Amplifier-/221622747991?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3399bec357

 

This is a USED unit. It comes in the original packaging. Used for display.

 

The LDS 2-150B audio/video amplifier is an innovative, attractive and versatile performer that can be used as a television amp as well as an audio amplifier where its diminutive size can satisfy the needs of a custom solution.

 

Housed in a slim 1U chassis with an elegant blue LED, the LDS 2-150B can be freestanding, wall mounted or rack mounted using the optional panel. This “discrete” amplifier uses a hefty toroidal transformer and outputs two channels of 50/75 watts into 8/4 ohms respectively. Used in its mono mode, the LDS 2-150B outputs up to 150 watts. Its outstanding musical performance is ensured by its skillful design and the use of top quality components including bi-polar and MOSFET transistors.

 

The LDS 2-150B incorporates a CPU that measures an intended impedance to prevent an excessive load being imposed that could cause overheating.

 

The front panel allows input selection: switch-off delay time, a separate “B” mode trigger level adjustment and a volume setting. The rear panel includes two sets of line level inputs, two sets of speaker level inputs, a set of buffered outputs, 12-volt trigger and music signal sensing circuits. In addition there is an adjustable turn on control, two sets of removable speaker connectors, the Sherbourn patented LDS speaker test circuit and an 18 dB per octave sub-sonic filter to prevent low frequency saturation of transformer volume controls.

 

Rated Power: 50 watts per channel @ 8 ohms and 75watts/channel @ 4 ohms with no more than 0.1% THD from 20 Hz–20 KHz all channels driven

Power Bandwidth: 10Hz-75 KHz

Gain: 32 dB

Signal to Noise Ratio: 85 dB/wide band, 90dB A weighted

High Input Impedance: 1.0 K ohms

Line Input Impedance: 12.0 K ohms

High Level Sensitivity: 2.5 volts

Line Level Sensitivity: 500 Mv

Fuses: T2AL/250v

Auto on Trigger Sensitivity: 1Mv–5 Mv adjustable

Power Supply: 120v/60Hz

Dimensions: 8.25"W x 13.0" D x 2" H

 

post #3645 of 3672

Just a heads-up.

 

The Emotiva Fusion Flex Amp (which is basically the Emotiva version of the PA2-50 - with a few refinements, a new look, and a nicer remote control - but the same basic circuitry and features) will be available for purchase for the holidays. It should be up on the Emotiva website later tonight (12/19) :darthsmile:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundwize View Post
 

On Amazon.com ::Sherbourn PA2-50 Stereo Flex Amplifier..Sherbourn Was the Sister Company to Emotiva..

This compact amp will bring you audiophile-quality music-anywhere. Use it on a desktop amp, a zone amp, or even as a dedicated amp for a listening system. Equipped with digital volume control, switching for 2 sources, and plenty of power, it may be all the amp you'll ever need for a small, versatile system. Plenty of Power Even though the PA 2-50 is small, its power output is impressive: 50 watts per channel into 8 ohms, and 75 watts per channel into 4. It packs a serious punch for such a tiny chassis-feel free to use it with difficult-to-drive speakers! The Control You Need Choose from two different sources with soft-touch front panel buttons, and adjust volume with the precise digital volume control. The PA 2-50 also offers control inputs and outputs for integration into a larger system. The Sherbourn PA 2-50 combines two great sounding audio channels, a precision digitally controlled analog volume control, automatic input selection, flexible remote control and triggering options, and user-selectable AC supply voltage - all in one compact package. Design features like proven class A/B technology, Sherbourn's intelligent protection system, and true commercial grade construction quality and reliability make the Sherbourn PA 2-50 an obvious choice when you need a small, flexible, great sounding two-channel amp. The PA 2-50 Two-Channel Flex Amplifier The Sherbourn PA 2-50 is a medium-powered, audiophile quality, class A/B power amplifier with a wide variety of input and control options. The PA 2-50 offers two stereo inputs, each of which can be manually selected or configured to operate automatically, and utilizes a digitally controlled analog level control, which provides very precise control of gain, very tight channel tracking, perfect repeatability, and virtually no distortion.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sherbourn-PA2-50-Stereo-Flex-Amplifier/dp/B00ALPXF1A/ref=sr_1_1/179-2725172-3582132?ie=UTF8&qid=1418975876&sr=8-1&keywords=sherbourn+amplifiers

 

Anyone have this amp and gave it a go on the HE-500..

 
 
 

List Price: $269.99
Price: $199.99 + $10.99 shipping
You Save: $70.00 (26%)
 
Only 20 left in stock.
Ships from and sold by accessories4less.
May arrive after Christmas.
 
 
 
 
 
 
  • Remote control with digital volume
  • Auto or manually-switched inputs and on/off
  • Rear panel trigger, RS-232, IR control inputs
  • Bottom panel keyholder for wall mount
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