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HD800 + $1,000-$2,500 Amp = Sonic Bliss? - Page 7

post #91 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post


On the other hand, the engineer in me believes that class A, balanced, MOSFET/JFET solid state amps should perform to tighter specs. And provide a higher resolution listening experience in terms of musical detail.
 

 

From my research in trying to pick out a speaker amp, MOSFET/JFET amps tend to reproduce that tube magic while retaining many of solid state's advantages over tubes, but there are still things people say tubes do better, and there are things FETs do better.  The best FET based amp I know of, the Firstwatt SIT, has gotten rave reviews but always with a caveat that while it does many things better than tube amps, tube amps still have their own advantages.

 

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1337175928&openfrom&2&4#2

Granted, the guy seems to be a bit of a pessimist, but his point does seem to be in common with a few other's opinions I've read.

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0912/first_watt_sit_1.htm

Another review stating the differences between the SIT and a SET amp towards the middle-ish.

 

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2012/07/red-wine-audio-signature-15-integrated-amplifier-review/

And here's the RWA Sig 15 being compared to an Audion tube amp near the end of the review.  There's a more explicit review on the website comparing the RWA Sig 30.2 vs a Trafomatic SET, but IIRC the 30.2 technically isn't FET based.

 

So basically, I'd say MOSFET/JFET based designs have their own unique category of sound that can appeal to a lot of people, but tubes still have their own appeal unique to themselves.

post #92 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Both the GS-1 and GS-X will only give you the amount of bass (with bloom) that's on the recording. Nothing more, nothing less to my ears. Some other amps like the B22 or my Liquid Fire do add a little colouration there. 

You present an interesting conundrum...

How do you know which is colored and which is not? How do you know that the Beta 22 isn't the true sound and the GS-X doesn't sound different due to deviating from "true"? Unanswerable, I know but without a reference standard (the actual live performance) you can't truly know.

You can hear what you consider to be color on the Beta 22 (most others also describe it this way so you're in good company). Both amps have ruler flat frequency response, THD, low output impedance and wide power bandwidths. What are people hearing that they associate with color or warmth?

Both the AMG and Gilmore circuits are very well regarded by those in the technical know. I have read that the Beta 22 uses JFET as input devices and MOSFET as output devices, and it is biased heavily into Class A operation. This may be why it has the sonic characteristics that you described.

Curious
post #93 of 172

Agreed. If you want an amp that's more...fun...get a Liquid Glass. New sound with every pair of new tubes.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

I wouldn't classify the Siemens E88CC tubes as "fun". But my comments previously were purely in comparative terms to the GS-X. In more absolute terms, I would classify the LF as a neutral amp.

post #94 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post


You present an interesting conundrum...
How do you know which is colored and which is not? How do you know that the Beta 22 isn't the true sound and the GS-X doesn't sound different due to deviating from "true"? Unanswerable, I know but without a reference standard (the actual live performance) you can't truly know.
You can hear what you consider to be color on the Beta 22 (most others also describe it this way so you're in good company). Both amps have ruler flat frequency response, THD, low output impedance and wide power bandwidths. What are people hearing that they associate with color or warmth?
Both the AMG and Gilmore circuits are very well regarded by those in the technical know. I have read that the Beta 22 uses JFET as input devices and MOSFET as output devices, and it is biased heavily into Class A operation. This may be why it has the sonic characteristics that you described.
Curious

 

I compare what I'm hearing to real life and my speaker rig and the Gilmore amps are about as neutral to my ears as I've heard. Now that may not be to everyone. I love the B22 and my Liquid Fire as well. But you do raise some very good points.

post #95 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

Agreed. If you want an amp that's more...fun...get a Liquid Glass. New sound with every pair of new tubes.

 

I've had "fun" amps...and I think I'm done with them for a long time. Neutral/transparent/dynamic and clean is what I'm after.

post #96 of 172

Well, technically you could have all that with the LG, too. All about your tube pair. :D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

I've had "fun" amps...and I think I'm done with them for a long time. Neutral/transparent/dynamic and clean is what I'm after.

post #97 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

I've had "fun" amps...and I think I'm done with them for a long time. Neutral/transparent/dynamic and clean is what I'm after.

I can see a pattern...:-)

W22 -> LF -> GS-X -> ???
post #98 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post


I can see a pattern...:-)
W22 -> LF -> GS-X -> ???

Let me fill it in: SR009/SR727II. biggrin.gif

post #99 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Let me fill it in: SR009/SR727II. biggrin.gif

You realize as you approach the speed of light mass becomes infinite...:-)
post #100 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post


You realize as you approach the speed of light mass becomes infinite...:-)

LoL, true. That's why particles with mass cannot achieve the speed of light. smile.gif

 

Thank goodness for the Higgs Field...keeping us from moving 300 000 km/s.

post #101 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

LoL, true. That's why particles with mass cannot achieve the speed of light. smile.gif

Thank goodness for the Higgs Field...keeping us from moving 300 000 km/s.

Hey Michaelson and Morley used mph (186,350), Think of it this way and your SR009s are a bit closer...
Edited by iim7V7IM7 - 10/3/12 at 2:48am
post #102 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

I wouldn't classify the Siemens E88CC tubes as "fun". But my comments previously were purely in comparative terms to the GS-X. In more absolute terms, I would classify the LF as a neutral amp.

 

Compared to someting like the Telefunken E88CC they are o2smile.gif

post #103 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountChoculaBot View Post

 

From my research in trying to pick out a speaker amp, MOSFET/JFET amps tend to reproduce that tube magic while retaining many of solid state's advantages over tubes, but there are still things people say tubes do better, and there are things FETs do better.  The best FET based amp I know of, the Firstwatt SIT, has gotten rave reviews but always with a caveat that while it does many things better than tube amps, tube amps still have their own advantages.

 

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1337175928&openfrom&2&4#2

Granted, the guy seems to be a bit of a pessimist, but his point does seem to be in common with a few other's opinions I've read.

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0912/first_watt_sit_1.htm

Another review stating the differences between the SIT and a SET amp towards the middle-ish.

 

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2012/07/red-wine-audio-signature-15-integrated-amplifier-review/

And here's the RWA Sig 15 being compared to an Audion tube amp near the end of the review.  There's a more explicit review on the website comparing the RWA Sig 30.2 vs a Trafomatic SET, but IIRC the 30.2 technically isn't FET based.

 

So basically, I'd say MOSFET/JFET based designs have their own unique category of sound that can appeal to a lot of people, but tubes still have their own appeal unique to themselves.

Thanks for the Nelson Pass amp references..

 

A naive question...

 

The Beta 22 uses a JFET as input devices and MOSFET as output devices.  I am not familiar enough between the differences in a Gilmore Dynalo/Dynamid vs. a AMB Beta 22 to understand how or if they are fundamentally different in transistor class/type etc.? The HeadAmp GS-X lists itself as a JFET, bi-polar transistor amp. Can someone who is familiar with both chime in?  

post #104 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post

The Beta 22 uses a JFET as input devices and MOSFET as output devices.  I am not familiar enough between the differences in a Gilmore Dynalo/Dynamid vs. a AMB Beta 22 to understand how or if they are fundamentally different in transistor class/type etc.? The HeadAmp GS-X lists itself as a JFET, bi-polar transistor amp. Can someone who is familiar with both chime in?  

 

The B22 is more stable, thermally and electrically. It is better equipped at handling hard loads like speakers (see this), and the parts are easier to find. I would not choose a dynahi over a B22.

 

They're really very similar though, brothers in the head amp world.


Edited by joeyjojo - 10/3/12 at 2:20pm
post #105 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post

I am a bit lost in which will provide the larger, deeper, more holographic soundstage between the two technologies? It may have more to do with the actual amp designs more than type of amp. I also unsure which will be the most enjoyable listening experience (subjective).

 

Just a quick comment on this as well - no headphone is going to give you any soundstage, at all. The nice thing about headphones is their detail and separation, but when you've heard a good speaker system you realise what "soundstage" is. It's not possible from speakers attached to your ears.

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