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post #391 of 500

We have a measurement from Tyl http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/YamahaPro500.pdf

 

Seems he dosen't like them much.

post #392 of 500
I'm quite surprised at his comments and that he won't review them. I wonder if he gave them proper head time or just figured it wasn't worth it based off measurements. Whatever the case, it's strange that he would review the UE6K, Momentum, M-100 but decide to leave these out. I understood why he wasn't a fan of the 1R but the 500 is definitely more linear and more resolving across the spectrum and can definitely compete, and to my ears, outshine a couple of the aforementioned cans.

We all have different ears indeed.
post #393 of 500
Very well said roma101!
post #394 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma101 View Post

I'm quite surprised at his comments and that he won't review them. I wonder if he gave them proper head time or just figured it wasn't worth it based off measurements. Whatever the case, it's strange that he would review the UE6K, Momentum, M-100 but decide to leave these out. I understood why he wasn't a fan of the 1R but the 500 is definitely more linear and more resolving across the spectrum and can definitely compete, and to my ears, outshine a couple of the aforementioned cans.

We all have different ears indeed.

 

Who cares if he doesn't like them. We like them. That's all that matters.

post #395 of 500

that is all that matters. i returned mine, but have fun with yours and dont look back

post #396 of 500
Thanks m80!

Beagle, you're absolutely right. Usually I wouldn't care (I liked the 1R, he chose not to review it and that didn't bother me), but to my ears this headphone is not like any other headphone because of its timbre quality and sonic capabilities. I am just surprised is all but obviously in the end, it doesn't matter so long as we enjoy them.

Thanks sofa, sorry they didn't work out for you. Perhaps the new WS99 may be to your liking? I haven't tried them but they are intriguing. I also love their form factor.
Edited by roma101 - 4/7/13 at 9:06am
post #397 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma101 View Post

Beagle, you're absolutely right. Usually I wouldn't care (I liked the 1R, he chose not to review it and that didn't bother me), but to my ears this headphone is not like any other headphone because of its timbre quality and sonic capabilities. I am just surprised is all but obviously in the end, it doesn't matter so long as we enjoy them.
 

 

Nothing against Tyll (he sounds like a cool guy and knows his stuff and knows what he likes) but I cannot understand why so many folks have this conception that a headphone is not worthy until it has the stamp of approval from Tyll. It is like they need to be convinced that what they are hearing is "right". It is always going to be a matter of opinion and taste. I think this is why so many of us are multiple-headphone owners. Each of those headphones is just right at a particular time when we are in a particular listening mood. If it sounds good, it is good. If we don't have that, we may as well stop listening altogether.

post #398 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

 

Nothing against Tyll (he sounds like a cool guy and knows his stuff and knows what he likes) but I cannot understand why so many folks have this conception that a headphone is not worthy until it has the stamp of approval from Tyll. It is like they need to be convinced that what they are hearing is "right". It is always going to be a matter of opinion and taste. I think this is why so many of us are multiple-headphone owners. Each of those headphones is just right at a particular time when we are in a particular listening mood. If it sounds good, it is good. If we don't have that, we may as well stop listening altogether.

People respect authority and his "stamp-of-approval" holds some weight. Same goes for Steve Guttenberg. I've watched/read most of Tyll's reviews and for the most part I agree with his taste in headphones. But Tyll also hates Grado headphones while I love the Grado sound. Grains of salt with everything.

I personally don't like the Pro 500 both for comfort, weight and aesthetics. I mostly use my headphones while I'm walking around, so they do not meet my needs. I haven't had enough time with them to determine if the sound sig is to my liking but all the other reasons disqualify it for me.


Edited by SpiderNhan - 4/7/13 at 11:20am
post #399 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

Nothing against Tyll (he sounds like a cool guy and knows his stuff and knows what he likes) but I cannot understand why so many folks have this conception that a headphone is not worthy until it has the stamp of approval from Tyll. It is like they need to be convinced that what they are hearing is "right". It is always going to be a matter of opinion and taste. I think this is why so many of us are multiple-headphone owners. Each of those headphones is just right at a particular time when we are in a particular listening mood. If it sounds good, it is good. If we don't have that, we may as well stop listening altogether.

I think what you just said holds a lot of truth, especially when it comes to newcomers who may not completely trust their ears. And in the end, this is what it comes down to: trusting your ears, knowing it's all subjective, and enjoying the music.

With that said, I do appreciate reviewers like Tyll and Mike from Headfonia as well as a few other head-fiers on here whose impressions I read. I read them mostly to figure out how they perceive a certain headphone vs how I perceive it and then this tells me if we have similar hearing/perception or not - this becomes helpful when there are headphones I haven't heard that are reviewed. In any case, if anyone is hoping to get a 'stamp of approval' based off someone else's ears that's a little sad but I guess understandable if you don't have a lot of experience with headphones in general. The ultimate stamp of approval should come from your ears ultimately.

In this case though, I just found it disappointing that he felt the 500 didn't even deserve to be reviewed vs. how many other headphones he has reviewed in the past (why was it necessary to review the $300 P5 when it hardly sounds like a $300 headphone?). I guess I am just saying the 500 doesn't deserve that kind of dismissal in my book. It does a lot of things right that other headphones can't seem to do so well. In the end, I will go on enjoying this headphone but I feel that many people who do not have experience with this headphone will automatically dismiss it based on appearance (which many are already doing) and I guess... yeah that lack of 'stamp of approval' from someone like Tyll. In the end, it'll be their loss.
Edited by roma101 - 4/7/13 at 1:58pm
post #400 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderNhan View Post

People respect authority and his "stamp-of-approval" holds some weight. Same goes for Steve Guttenberg. I've watched/read most of Tyll's reviews and for the most part I agree with his taste in headphones. But Tyll also hates Grado headphones while I love the Grado sound. Grains of salt with everything.


I personally don't like the Pro 500 both for comfort, weight and aesthetics. I mostly use my headphones while I'm walking around, so they do not meet my needs. I haven't had enough time with them to determine if the sound sig is to my liking but all the other reasons disqualify it for me.


Grains of salt with everything indeed. I agree about the ergonomics of this can although I got used to it when out and about. I prefer the ergonomics of something like the M-100 or MDR-1R but the SQ on the 500 is so good to my ears that I couldn't let them go based on those issues. Everyone is different though.
post #401 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma101 View Post


Grains of salt with everything indeed. I agree about the ergonomics of this can although I got used to it when out and about. I prefer the ergonomics of something like the M-100 or MDR-1R but the SQ on the 500 is so good to my ears that I couldn't let them go based on those issues. Everyone is different though.

 

And there it is. You made SQ the main priority.

 

I find the PRO 500 on the heavy and stiff side, but knowing that the weight and metal cups are contributing factors to the solid sound, I can tolerate a bit of discomfort. And when I get fully immersed in the music, I am no longer aware of any comfort issues anyway.

post #402 of 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma101 View Post

I'm quite surprised at his comments and that he won't review them. I wonder if he gave them proper head time or just figured it wasn't worth it based off measurements. Whatever the case, it's strange that he would review the UE6K, Momentum, M-100 but decide to leave these out. I understood why he wasn't a fan of the 1R but the 500 is definitely more linear and more resolving across the spectrum and can definitely compete, and to my ears, outshine a couple of the aforementioned cans.

 

Last I had read he was waiting to get the bluetooth and noise-canceling versions of the MDR-1R in before he reviewed them. Has he changed plans?

post #403 of 500

Haven't yet heard the Pro 500 (I will soon) but ditto on the MDR-1R. It surely deserves a review. It's very nice indeed.

 

We have to remind ourselves that Tyll is just one man, although a very influential man, and he has his own tastes like everyone else, not to mention his own set of ears. He thought the Z1000/7520 wasn't worthy of a review either, yet Jude (Founder of Head-Fi.org) says it's one of his top reference closed back cans for under $500, and a lot of musicians and studio engineers seem quite pleased by the 7520.

 

For what it's worth I think the measurements for the Pro 500 look great. I've probably looked at over a 100+ graphs from Tyll and although the Pro 500 isn't the best of the best, it's pretty darn good from where I'm standing.

post #404 of 500

I'm really glad Tyli is around to measure headphones.   His view is that measurements can help to explain what is going on with a headphone, and I tend to agree -- up to a point.  Listening is the only way to resolve subtle differences, even in headphones that appear to measure similarly.  Tyli listens first before measuring, so again this is not far from his own view. 

 

Now that we have measurements of the PRO 500, we can compare them to those of others.  From their frequency response and distortion levels, they look to be similar to another popular headphone here, the V-MODA M100.  Pull up both frequency response plots from Tyli's site and you will see the similarities:  A midrange dip, a peak at 10kHz, and very similar everywhere else except the bass where the M100 has more output, up to +8dB at 20Hz.  So, that means by EQing the bass down on the M100, one should get a similar sound to that of the PRO 500. 

 

I own both, so I tried it.  It didn't work.  Lowering the bass on the M100 basically killed the sound of the 'phone, making it lifeless, and tended to expose the problems that the M100 has with stereo imaging.  I have not played much with treble EQ to try to fix the imaging issue with the M100, but I don't think that is trivial.  Switching back and forth between the EQ'ed M100 and the un-EQ'ed PRO 500, it was no contest for me -- I prefer the sound of the PRO 500 in this comparison for the music I listen to.  Of course, on pretty much everything else (form factor, design, looks), the M100 wins.  I think I'm echoing roma101 here. 

 

Now, on sound quality alone, if I listen to both without EQ, it comes down to the choice of either ample bass (M100), or better imaging/detail (PRO 500).  For me, I am more likely to choose the latter.  The issue of amping is also important here, given the low impedance of the PRO 500.  I use a Fiio E12 with plenty of current and a low output impedance, so I have that taken care of. 

 

(edited to fix a small typo)


Edited by jazzman7 - 4/7/13 at 9:53pm
post #405 of 500

Anyone else notice the similarity between Tyl and the Lesnumerwhatever site I shared earlier at http://www.head-fi.org/t/628488/yamaha-pro-headphones/330#post_9249143 ... ? That certainly settles the question of "so who is right? Sound & Vision or Lesnumerique?" (sorry for the hatchet job on that name.)

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